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Illegal Seizure question

Kwik Stix

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Hey everyone,

well today I was helping my father change a pool filter/pump on a customer's pool in Hampstead, NC (Pender County). We came to a situation that required me going up to our shop to get some equipment to stop a really bad pool leak that could have lead to some catastrophic failures of other pieces of equipment, so I was moving pretty good to get to the shop. Well, I ended up getting pulled over for speeding. As the Pender County Sheriff approached the car I let him know I had my pistol holstered and on my passenger seat.

I gave him my DL and Registration, and right before he went back to his car, he reached in and grabbed my pistol and said, "Im taking this with me for my protection". He started to walk off with it so I was just like, "Ok, Whatever you need".

Is this legal at all?

Also, when he returned it, he had the weapon cleared and I was missing a round upon the return of my weapon. He left before I could ask him about that.
 

smn

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You consented, right? End of story.

If anything, do not consent and if it's seized you have the basis for a complaint.
 

smn

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If there's audio it can be shown that "acquiescence is not consent" and a complaint can be made.

In GA we have the benefit of State v. Jones (2008) saying as much as well as requiring RAS that the gun is part of the crime (or armed AND dangerous) before disarming the driver.
 
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NC-Heel

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How was he able to just reach in and take it? I guess he approached from the passenger side. Next time only roll the window down halfway. The only thing you can do now is file a complaint with his department and hope his behavior is addressed.
 

Citizen

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If there's audio it can be shown that "acquiescence is not consent" and a complaint can be made.

In GA we have the benefit of State v. Jones (2008) saying as much as well as requiring RAS that the gun is part of the crime (or armed AND dangerous) before disarming the driver.

Wonderful! You wouldn't happen to a link to that case would you?
 

madcitysw

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May 5, 2012
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Selma, NC
Wow, so he just reach in and took your weapon out of your hostler without any warning. He has broken your rights and what he did was a wrongful act. Next step is filed a complaint with his supervision because it seems that was a dangerous action for both of you.
 

WalkingWolf

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File a FOIA to see if he run the gun, which he is not allowed to do. He can take the weapon for officer safety according to SCOTUS. File a theft report for the missing round. It's lucky for him he did not discharge it while playing with it.
 

smn

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But the incident took place in NC. There may be similar caselaw in NC, or here's an opportunity to create it.
 

Kwik Stix

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To Clear up a few things that I didn't detail in the OP:

The firearm was in a holster, on my passenger seat. He approached the vehicle on the passenger side since I pulled over into a parking lot. The windows in my car were already fully lowered (I never ride with the windows up unless it's raining). I told him I had the firearm, and that it was on the seat as he approached the car.

He did indeed reach in, grabbed, and removed it as he was telling me he was "holding on to it for his protection".

Can anyone provide me a link that shows when the SCOTUS said that an officer has the right to temporarily seize the weapon during a traffic stop?
 

WalkingWolf

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To Clear up a few things that I didn't detail in the OP:

The firearm was in a holster, on my passenger seat. He approached the vehicle on the passenger side since I pulled over into a parking lot. The windows in my car were already fully lowered (I never ride with the windows up unless it's raining). I told him I had the firearm, and that it was on the seat as he approached the car.

He did indeed reach in, grabbed, and removed it as he was telling me he was "holding on to it for his protection".

Can anyone provide me a link that shows when the SCOTUS said that an officer has the right to temporarily seize the weapon during a traffic stop?

There are several but the most common is Terry V Ohio, where the court ruled that a officer can make a search and a seizure during a stop for officer safety as long as the officer has RAS. You were stopped for speeding so the officer had RAS, and you offered up the information that you had a firearm, which you did not have to do since it was not concealed. The courts may take your offering the information up as a consent to seizure of the firearm. Outside of providing the necessary information, drivers license, registration, and insurance it is best to keep your mouth shut. The officer had no RAS IMO that the firearm was stolen, or otherwise unlawful, so IMO he could not run the numbers.
 

XD40sc

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NC
To Clear up a few things that I didn't detail in the OP:

The firearm was in a holster, on my passenger seat. He approached the vehicle on the passenger side since I pulled over into a parking lot. The windows in my car were already fully lowered (I never ride with the windows up unless it's raining). I told him I had the firearm, and that it was on the seat as he approached the car.

He did indeed reach in, grabbed, and removed it as he was telling me he was "holding on to it for his protection".

Can anyone provide me a link that shows when the SCOTUS said that an officer has the right to temporarily seize the weapon during a traffic stop?

On the passenger seat, window always down. You don't think that a pedestrian could easily grab your gun when you are stopped at a light, in a line of traffic, etc.

In NC, getting your CHP could make sense if only for some better options of where you can keep your gun while driving. On the front seat or dash really aren't' the best choices.
 

Kwik Stix

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There are several but the most common is Terry V Ohio, where the court ruled that a officer can make a search and a seizure during a stop for officer safety as long as the officer has RAS. You were stopped for speeding so the officer had RAS, and you offered up the information that you had a firearm, which you did not have to do since it was not concealed. The courts may take your offering the information up as a consent to seizure of the firearm. Outside of providing the necessary information, drivers license, registration, and insurance it is best to keep your mouth shut. The officer had no RAS IMO that the firearm was stolen, or otherwise unlawful, so IMO he could not run the numbers.

Thanks for the clarification

On the passenger seat, window always down. You don't think that a pedestrian could easily grab your gun when you are stopped at a light, in a line of traffic, etc.

In NC, getting your CHP could make sense if only for some better options of where you can keep your gun while driving. On the front seat or dash really aren't' the best choices.

It was on the seat b/c I put it there as I came to a stop in the parking lot. I usually have it in the door sill next to me while driving, but I didn't want there to be any question about it being "open" during the traffic stop.
 

smn

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Michigan v. Long speaks more towards seizure of weapons during a traffic stop:
2. The protective search of the passenger compartment of respondent's car was reasonable under the principles articulated in Terry and other decisions of this Court. Although Terry involved the stop and subsequent patdown search for weapons of a person suspected of criminal activity, it did not restrict the preventive search to the person of the detained suspect. Protection of police and others can justify protective searches when police have a reasonable belief that the suspect poses a danger. Roadside encounters between police and suspects are especially hazardous, and danger may arise from the possible presence of weapons in the area surrounding a suspect. Thus, the search of the passenger compartment of an automobile, limited to those areas in which a weapon may be placed or hidden, is permissible if the police officer possesses a reasonable belief based on specific and articulable facts which, taken together with the rational inferences from those facts, reasonably warrant the officer to believe that the suspect is dangerous and the suspect may gain immediate control of weapons. If, while conducting a legitimate Terry search of an automobile's interior, the officer discovers contraband other than weapons, he cannot be required to ignore the contraband, and the Fourth Amendment does not require its suppression in such circumstances. The circumstances of this case justified the officers in their reasonable belief that respondent posed a danger if he were permitted to reenter his vehicle. Nor did they act unreasonably in taking preventive measures to ensure that there were no other weapons within respondent's immediate grasp before permitting him to reenter his automobile. The fact that respondent was under the officers' control during the investigative stop does not render unreasonable their belief that he could injure them. Pp. 463 U. S. 1045-1052.
Read up on NC law which is weighted more towards this case and see. Without making furtive movements it's difficult for the cop to justify his seizing the weapon, although he's given a lot of leeway to do just that.
 

dashowdy

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Oct 3, 2011
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raleigh, NC
Thanks for the clarification



It was on the seat b/c I put it there as I came to a stop in the parking lot. I usually have it in the door sill next to me while driving, but I didn't want there to be any question about it being "open" during the traffic stop.


Put it on the middle of the dash next time and do not say anything, or tell him it does not matter as long as he can see it but cannot have his way with it.
 
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