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Thread: Is America’s Economy Being Sovietized? Brandon Smith, AltMarket, InfoWars

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    Is America’s Economy Being Sovietized? Brandon Smith, AltMarket, InfoWars

    "Does the U.S. economy’s path resemble the Soviet template exactly? No. And I’m sure the very suggestion will make the average unaware free market evangelical froth at the mouth. However, as I plan to show, the parallels in our fundamentals are disturbing; the reality is that true free markets in America died a long time ago."

    http://www.alt-market.com/articles/1...ing-sovietized

    http://www.infowars.com/is-americas-...ng-sovietized/
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    true free markets have never existed.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    The characteristics of a free market society defy the use of centralized planning. Adam Smith’s original concept of free market trade stood as an antithesis to what was then referred to as “mercantilism,” a select few “joint stock companies” (corporations) monopolizing production while using government ties to destroy any new competition. Unfortunately, there are to this day economists and politicians who believe that corporate centralization is a “natural” function of a free market. In reality, corporate monopolies are an unnatural creation of collusion between governments and big-money interests designed to suffocate any entrepreneurship outside of their sphere of influence. Over time, as we now see in the United States today, government power and corporate power begin to hybridize, until one can barely be distinguished from the other.
    This is exactly what happens as the result of any market. any free market libertarian will tell you that the advantage of "free markets" is competition. problem is, in some ways it is impossible for every competitor to be equal, some are advataged in numerous ways, eventually the competition dies out or is absorbed by a bigger fish, the bigger fish only wants to get bigger, and eventually the big corporation that results holds the power. even if there was no "government" the big companies would be a government in and of themselves, since no one can fight the big fish with money or ideas so violence is the only way to do so.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    This is exactly what happens as the result of any market. any free market libertarian will tell you that the advantage of "free markets" is competition. problem is, in some ways it is impossible for every competitor to be equal, some are advataged in numerous ways, eventually the competition dies out or is absorbed by a bigger fish, the bigger fish only wants to get bigger, and eventually the big corporation that results holds the power. even if there was no "government" the big companies would be a government in and of themselves, since no one can fight the big fish with money or ideas so violence is the only way to do so.
    No, "corporate centralization" isn't a result of free market, you have to have a government to allow that to happen that corporations can use to enforce their monopolies.

    There is no "equality" in free market, you have no right to be "equal". We are all unequal and that is a fact of life, people need to use their own personal strengths, the areas were others are not their equals, and quit whining about it not being fair someone else is better than them.

    Libertarians realize there is no "utopia" and that many of these problems will exist, they also realize that the essence of government being violence, makes the problems way worse.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    "Does the U.S. economy’s path resemble the Soviet template exactly? No. And I’m sure the very suggestion will make the average unaware free market evangelical froth at the mouth. However, as I plan to show, the parallels in our fundamentals are disturbing; the reality is that true free markets in America died a long time ago."

    http://www.alt-market.com/articles/1...ing-sovietized

    http://www.infowars.com/is-americas-...ng-sovietized/
    Yep died long ago, The first Roosevelt President and his trust busting ruse. Germany borrowed many of its fascist ideas from Wilson, and then we had FDR, model things after the Nazi's......
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Yep died long ago, The first Roosevelt President and his trust busting ruse. Germany borrowed many of its fascist ideas from Wilson, and then we had FDR, model things after the Nazi's......
    If you can write so of Wilson and FDR then Hillsdale College's on line courses should be pleasing and reinforcing as they establish the sequence of the slide down the slippery slope in just those terms.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    If you can write so of Wilson and FDR then Hillsdale College's on line courses should be pleasing and reinforcing as they establish the sequence of the slide down the slippery slope in just those terms.
    There's lots of history books, especially from the Austrian school of thought on economics that deal with the tragedy of Government involvement.

    Now that I think about it that tyrant Lincoln should be on that slope too.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    There's lots of history books, especially from the Austrian school of thought on economics that deal with the tragedy of Government involvement. Now that I think about it that tyrant Lincoln should be on that slope too.
    Yes, in so far as he destroyed the federation.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    No, "corporate centralization" isn't a result of free market, you have to have a government to allow that to happen that corporations can use to enforce their monopolies.

    There is no "equality" in free market, you have no right to be "equal". We are all unequal and that is a fact of life, people need to use their own personal strengths, the areas were others are not their equals, and quit whining about it not being fair someone else is better than them.

    Libertarians realize there is no "utopia" and that many of these problems will exist, they also realize that the essence of government being violence, makes the problems way worse.
    And what is government? Whoever holds the most power, it's foolish to assume that there would be no government because the most successful and powerful company can set one up or influence everyone else in such a way that they become government in everything but name.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    And what is government? Whoever holds the most power, it's foolish to assume that there would be no government because the most successful and powerful company can set one up or influence everyone else in such a way that they become government in everything but name.
    How does that company become so powerful?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    How does that company become so powerful?
    either by winning competitions, by being the first in a hard to break into industry, by being the only people willing to provide services in that industry, by using violence or coercion to dissaude competitors.. by buying lesser performing competitors out, by loss leading and holding out with lowest prices long enough that competitors fade out then raising prices once they're in the clear (wal-mart used this tactic to great effect in their earlier years)

    there can be any number of reasons. but all stem back to attracting more customers then the other guy... except for violence and destablization.....that's a different thing.. but it can happen.

    However, once a monopoly or oligopoly has formed they can do what they wish to customers and employees alike if there's no competition. and they can also influence public policy. and if a business gets that big, it is very difficult to field effective competition...
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 05-24-2013 at 09:10 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    either by winning competitions, by being the first in a hard to break into industry, by being the only people willing to provide services in that industry, by using violence or coercion to dissaude competitors.. by buying lesser performing competitors out, by loss leading and holding out with lowest prices long enough that competitors fade out then raising prices once they're in the clear (wal-mart used this tactic to great effect in their earlier years)

    there can be any number of reasons. but all stem back to attracting more customers then the other guy... except for violence and destablization.....that's a different thing.. but it can happen.

    However, once a monopoly or oligopoly has formed they can do what they wish to customers and employees alike if there's no competition. and they can also influence public policy. and if a business gets that big, it is very difficult to field effective competition...

    Winning competitions?

    What makes the industry hard to break into, generic over broad statement, but an actual function of capitalism, If it is a desired service and you don't have a government monopoly others will break into it.

    Only people willing to provide a service? Again if it is a desired service this is no problem.

    Violence or Coercion, yes these things may happen, but like all your other examples you are leaving the consumer out of the equation, we get to choose who we buy from.

    Loss leading has never worked extremely well, because then again the consumer will drop you as soon as your prices are higher and other entrepreneurs will fill the void. Again consumers have the power not the company. If you want to be mad at Wal-mart be mad they lobby for higher minimum wage laws....which was the biggest detriment to their mom and pop competitors.

    It's very difficult to thwart competition without government backing. Your argument is close to Post ad hoc fallacy, your argument that they will "grab" power is just wrong they can only grab something that is there, or that the people let them have.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Here's a relevant, and recently made, video on this topic.

    What would happen if you woke up and governemnt was gone?

    "Why Libertarianism Is So Dangerous":

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbNFJK1ZpVg

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carsontech View Post
    Here's a relevant, and recently made, video on this topic.

    What would happen if you woke up and governemnt was gone?

    "Why Libertarianism Is So Dangerous":

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbNFJK1ZpVg
    Thanks! Bookmarked.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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