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Thread: Colordao Springs: Threatened with arrest for Open Carry.

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    Colordao Springs: Threatened with arrest for Open Carry.

    I was visiting Territory Days in Colorado Springs and a man came up to me and said that he was an event manager and I couldn't OC at the event. I told him to shove off. He kept haranguing me so I went up to a police officer and told her that the man was harassing me and would they please ask him to stop.

    Well, they told me that I was trespassing since the man had a permit for an event and he could ask me to leave if he wanted. I pointed out that I was on a public sidewalk, and that I was patronizing businesses there. They told me to leave or be arrested. I saw a woman OCing a little ways away, and said that I was going to go over and speak to her. As I started to leave, an officer physically grabbed my coat and wouldn't let me leave.

    The manager told me that the woman was a reinactor, and that her gun carried blanks, so she was OK.


    I called the Duty Lieutenant at Sand Creek, and she told me the same thing: That since the organizers had a permit, that made the sidewalk private property.

    Advice?

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Postno more details.

    Get your laywer,
    Colorado has state premption,
    If preemption didnt stop towns from making up new law, for circumstances like this,
    all the towns and cities would just lease all the various public parks and other places to "oganizers"...
    You were a victum of some idiots,
    they are stupidly guilty of 42 USC 1983, deprivation of your rights!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Get your laywer,
    Colorado has state premption,
    If preemption didnt stop towns from making up new law, for circumstances like this,
    all the towns and cities would just lease all the various public parks and other places to "oganizers"...
    You were a victum of some idiots,
    they are stupidly guilty of 42 USC 1983, deprivation of your rights!


    I returned without my gun. After a bit, three officers approached me and told me that they were going to write me for trespassing. I told them that I was only told that I could not carry my gun. They said that since I had been uncooperative, I was banned from the festival.

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    All hinges on whether the act of leasing allows someone to discriminate on who they let in - "reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." If it does, you could be charged with tresspassing just like in a business. If it does not, then yup, you would have a case against them.

    I had something simlar happen at Thunder in the Rockies. I went to Thunder Mountain HD and was walking around the parking lot for a while with my firearm OC. I was getting ready to leave and happened to walk by a couple of officers on the way to buy a soda at a stand. They approached me and told me that weapons were not allowed at the event. They did let me purchase the drink on my way out - I didn't argue with them, just asked if I could buy the soda before leaving and they were cool about it. TMHD is a business, and as such that would be private property, not leased public so there may be distinctions. For that matter though, I think the prohibition was just for the event - I own a Harley I bought there and have OC'd in their establishment several times while buying or getting service on my bike.

    That is where a lawyer could help you.

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    Was this event free to the general public or was there a fee?

    CCJ

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    The presumptive authority of the event sponsor to create a GFZ on a public street is dubious at best.

    What does the special use permit actually state ?

    Once again low information CSPD officers. Remember the " Pride " event in Acacia Park about a year ago ?

    Special use permits do not convey property rights that trump civil rights.

    Now if the City agrees with such a policy for the event THE CITY needs to post signs at all entrance points providing notice to the general public of the policy. Who's time clock are these CSPD officers punched in on- the City's - or the event sponsor's. They are acting like it is the latter.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 05-26-2013 at 10:35 AM.

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    Regular Member Elhuero's Avatar
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    Why didn't you get any of this on video?


    Also, CSPD really sucks.
    Last edited by Elhuero; 05-26-2013 at 03:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elhuero View Post
    Why didn't you get any of this on video?


    Also, CSPD really sucks.

    I wasn't expecting any trouble at all. I have been OCing all around CS for over a years, and have never had the slightest problem. Until now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Was this event free to the general public or was there a fee?

    CCJ
    It is free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamans-gallows View Post
    It is free.
    Then you were deprived of your civil right and your constitutional right.

    Did you record the encounter?

    CCJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Then you were deprived of your civil right and your constitutional right.

    Did you record the encounter?

    CCJ
    No, I was too busy experiencing it, and it was totally unexpected. I never dreamed that the cops would side with that obnoxious little banty rooster.

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    One can't help but connect the dots leading from the nearby Manitou Spring's attitude towards open carry - an ordinance against OC except for the sidewalks & streets.

    The anti- crowd may also be feeling some power given the recent circus in Denver.

    Be that as it may the focus should be directed at the CSPD - once again.

    Also once again - the problem resides in the Chief's office at CSPD.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 05-27-2013 at 07:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    One can't help but connect the dots leading from the nearby Manitou Spring's attitude towards open carry - an ordinance against OC except for the sidewalks & streets.

    The anti- crowd may also being feeling some momentum from recent events in Denver.

    Be that as it may the focus should be directed at the CSPD - once again.

    Also once again - the problem resides in the Chief's office at CSPD.

    I OC in Manitou all the time. The police have been educated that their city ordinance has been preempted. Never have the slightest problem there. Even in the park.

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    This has nothing to do with open carry and everything to do with not leaving when being told to do so. Apparently the event manager had to power to trespass people from the event.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle8338 View Post
    This has nothing to do with open carry and everything to do with not leaving when being told to do so. Apparently the event manager had to power to trespass people from the event.
    sorry D.E. that don't hold up. if your state has OC and preemption, then you can not close off a public access area, such as a public sidewalk, street, or even a park that is open to all access. you could close off a closed area. say a building or park where you would have to enter by a closed access


    i hate to be a Monday morning quarterback. but this is exactly what i would have said, "if you think a law has been broken then you must arrest me, but know that you will have to face the consequences if you are wrong". of course i have no problem taking the ride. i understand you probably wouldn't have wanted to have been arrested.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamans-gallows View Post
    As I started to leave, an officer physically grabbed my coat and wouldn't let me leave.
    assault and battery. file a complaint and if you have the id of the JBT in question file charges

    and yes CSPD is horribly ignorant of the law

    I've OC'd at Territory Days before without issue, including walking right past cops - I stopped going because I detest crowds.
    Last edited by RockyMtnScotsman; 05-27-2013 at 04:33 PM.

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    Hit the CSPD with a USC 42@section 1983 lawsuit.

    Also file seperate civil action against the chief and the two officers.

    Good Luck.

    CCJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    sorry D.E. that don't hold up. if your state has OC and preemption, then you can not close off a public access area, such as a public sidewalk, street, or even a park that is open to all access. you could close off a closed area. say a building or park where you would have to enter by a closed access


    i hate to be a Monday morning quarterback. but this is exactly what i would have said, "if you think a law has been broken then you must arrest me, but know that you will have to face the consequences if you are wrong". of course i have no problem taking the ride. i understand you probably wouldn't have wanted to have been arrested.
    Like the OP said, he was open carrying at a special event. They had a permit. They usually means they can place restrictions on who can be there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle8338 View Post
    Like the OP said, he was open carrying at a special event. They had a permit. They usually means they can place restrictions on who can be there.
    Are you saying the PERMIT gives them the authority to discriminate randomly against people attending the event?

    No people with tattoos, no people with black shirts, no people in wheel chairs, no people over 6ft tall.
    and definitely no people OPEN CARRYING A HAND GUN.

    Clearly a Civil Rights Violation against the event sponsor and a good case for constitutional rights violations against the CSPD.

    MY .02
    Best regards.

    CCJ

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle8338 View Post
    Like the OP said, he was open carrying at a special event. They had a permit. They usually means they can place restrictions on who can be there.


    Open carry is legal conduct in Colorado, Colorado Springs, AND the section of Colorado Ave reserved for this event's activities. The officers involved had an opportunity to advise the event manager concerning Colorado LAW on this subject. For whatever reasons they did not. Why they did not - is an excellent question for the Chief of Police to address.

    The OP sought the assistance of one officer at the outset of contention. That officer either was ignorant of Colorado law regarding open carry, or chose to ignore the law, in either case acted in conjunction with other officers to trespass the OP simply because one person did not approve of another person's legally armed condition. Officers involved were derelict in their responsibilities to the public - namely the OP, AND the event manager. Continuing a policy of interference with the exercise of constitutionally protected rights is going to start making a dent in Colorado Springs' bank account.

    The public domain does not cease to be public domain simply because one party is granted a concession for special use, and 4-5 blocks of Colorado Ave are blocked off from vehicular traffic. Pedestrian attendance at this event is actively promoted, without the posted exception of open carry. The event management itself does not possess authority to restrict open carry on a public street, or sidewalk. That would be a City determination.

    A citizen open carrying within this public venue is not engaging in disorderly conduct. The only disturbance of order was the interference by the event manager with the OP's lawful conduct.

    The event sponsor initiated the disturbance of order by confronting the OP concerning his armed condition. This was unwarranted intrusion upon another person's peaceful and quiet enjoyment of the event. Unless the City of Colorado Springs complies with Colorado law, and [ AFTER HOLDING A PUBLIC HEARING ] acts to POST SIGNS prohibiting open carry at all entry points to this venue, the arbitrary exclusion of a person lawfully exercising his/her right to open carry amounts to nothing less than violation of that person's 1st and 2nd Amendment secured rights.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 05-28-2013 at 12:37 AM.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    The worst part about this is the cop and event organizer will be embolded by their stupidity and will be more forceful next time. I smell a lawsuit.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle8338 View Post
    Like the OP said, he was open carrying at a special event. They had a permit. They usually means they can place restrictions on who can be there.
    like i said before D.E., in a public property with open excess, you can not disregard the law. RUSHCREEK had a good post on this subject

    if you can cite a specific law, please put your reputation where your mouth is, Cite the law
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    To all of those who quoted me,

    If city sidewalks can never become controlled access sidewalks, I'm guessing I could just go set up my grill and walk around with my gun in the middle of the BolderBoulder right? After all, it's on public property so that means I can do whatever I want...
    Last edited by Deserteagle8338; 05-28-2013 at 10:48 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle8338 View Post
    To all of those who quoted me,

    If city sidewalks can never become controlled access sidewalks, I'm guessing I could just go set up my grill and walk around with my gun in the middle of the BolderBoulder right? After all, it's on public property so that means I can do whatever I want...
    i have no idea weather you could or not. you haven't cited the law yet. do you have a cite? without the cite we can not know which way the law falls. there should be one.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Are you saying the PERMIT gives them the authority to discriminate randomly against people attending the event?

    No people with tattoos, no people with black shirts, no people in wheel chairs, no people over 6ft tall.
    and definitely no people OPEN CARRYING A HAND GUN.

    Clearly a Civil Rights Violation against the event sponsor and a good case for constitutional rights violations against the CSPD.

    MY .02
    Best regards.

    CCJ
    I agree completely, I would also add that the taxpayer pays for the public streets and sidewalks. If the goverment sells it be it temporary shouldn't the taxpayer get his/her taxes pro-rated? If you lease a car and the car dealer comes and takes it back every Saturday you wouldn't expect to pay for it would you?

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