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Colordao Springs: Threatened with arrest for Open Carry.

papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
Location
mayberry, nc
Like the OP said, he was open carrying at a special event. They had a permit. They usually means they can place restrictions on who can be there.

like i said before D.E., in a public property with open excess, you can not disregard the law. RUSHCREEK had a good post on this subject

if you can cite a specific law, please put your reputation where your mouth is, Cite the law
 

Deserteagle8338

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
104
Location
CO
To all of those who quoted me,

If city sidewalks can never become controlled access sidewalks, I'm guessing I could just go set up my grill and walk around with my gun in the middle of the BolderBoulder right? After all, it's on public property so that means I can do whatever I want...
 
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papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
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mayberry, nc
To all of those who quoted me,

If city sidewalks can never become controlled access sidewalks, I'm guessing I could just go set up my grill and walk around with my gun in the middle of the BolderBoulder right? After all, it's on public property so that means I can do whatever I want...

i have no idea weather you could or not. you haven't cited the law yet. do you have a cite? without the cite we can not know which way the law falls. there should be one.
 

DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
Are you saying the PERMIT gives them the authority to discriminate randomly against people attending the event?

No people with tattoos, no people with black shirts, no people in wheel chairs, no people over 6ft tall.
and definitely no people OPEN CARRYING A HAND GUN.

Clearly a Civil Rights Violation against the event sponsor and a good case for constitutional rights violations against the CSPD.

MY .02
Best regards.

CCJ

I agree completely, I would also add that the taxpayer pays for the public streets and sidewalks. If the goverment sells it be it temporary shouldn't the taxpayer get his/her taxes pro-rated? If you lease a car and the car dealer comes and takes it back every Saturday you wouldn't expect to pay for it would you?
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Deserteagle said:
They had a permit. They usually means they can place restrictions on who can be there.
papa bear said:
if you can cite a specific law, please put your reputation where your mouth is, Cite the law
It's not just a good idea, it's the rule around here.
The forum rules are linked to by every OCDO page. There's a tan bar just above where the thread begins.

If you do not agree with any of these Rules then please do not use this site, because BY USING THIS SITE YOU WILL BE DEEMED TO HAVE IRREVOCABLY AGREED TO THESE RULES.
...
(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA

File a grievance with Internal Affairs. That's why they exist. They'll investigate what happened in light of your actions, the actions of the organizer, the actions of the police officers (both the one on site as well as at the Division), and finally, they'll do it all in light of the applicable law.

If you don't like their decision, write the DA and ask him to explain his response, in detail.

If you don't like his decision, hire a lawyer and file suit against the city.

A word of advice, though - while local law enforcement doesn't always get it right, the integrity level is fairly high. So, if you pursue things through IA and the DA, and they both agree you're up a creek, then start petitioning City Council.

I don't know how they feel about things, but yesterday the El Paso County board of commissioners voted unanimously to support the efforts of Sheriff Maketa and the other 54 of 64 Colorado Sheriffs who're filing suit against the state for passing such ridiculously anti-Constitutional legislation. Typically, however, county folk are more supportive of our Constitution while city folk tend to be sell-outs.

You might discuss/propose the City Council change any laws which infringe upon your right to engage in lawful behavior on the city sidewalks and streets which your tax dollars built and maintain. Argue that a permit authorizes a business to conduct business on city property. It doesn't not revoke your right to be on that property, nor does it make the permit-holder the de-facto owner of the property. As a law-abiding citizen, you have the same right to be there as any other law-abiding citizen.

I'll write my city council person and ask them what they think about this. If several others here in the Springs do likewise, it may be enough for the City Council to say, "Hey, you're right! That's just not right."

Let me know how things go...

Links:

Colorado Springs City Council - There's also a link for you to find your district. E-mail and snail mail addresses are there, too.

ETA: My search turned up one applicable City Ordinance: "3.2.409: Unlawful Acts: C. It shall be unlawful for any person to obstruct, impede or interfere with any authorized assembly, person, vehicle or animal participating in a permitted special event." This seems to indicate both the actions of both the Event Manager and the Police Officers were themselves unlawful.

If you'd like to dig through Colorado Spring's City Code, be my guest! Link.
 
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Deserteagle8338

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
104
Location
CO
like i said before D.E., in a public property with open excess, you can not disregard the law. RUSHCREEK had a good post on this subject

if you can cite a specific law, please put your reputation where your mouth is, Cite the law

i have no idea weather you could or not. you haven't cited the law yet. do you have a cite? without the cite we can not know which way the law falls. there should be one.

Why dont you cite the law? Find me the law that backs up your points. Put your money where your mouth is and cite some law
 
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Hamans-gallows

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
62
Location
Colorado Springs
File a grievance with Internal Affairs. That's why they exist. They'll investigate what happened in light of your actions, the actions of the organizer, the actions of the police officers (both the one on site as well as at the Division), and finally, they'll do it all in light of the applicable law.

If you don't like their decision, write the DA and ask him to explain his response, in detail.

If you don't like his decision, hire a lawyer and file suit against the city.

A word of advice, though - while local law enforcement doesn't always get it right, the integrity level is fairly high. So, if you pursue things through IA and the DA, and they both agree you're up a creek, then start petitioning City Council.

I don't know how they feel about things, but yesterday the El Paso County board of commissioners voted unanimously to support the efforts of Sheriff Maketa and the other 54 of 64 Colorado Sheriffs who're filing suit against the state for passing such ridiculously anti-Constitutional legislation. Typically, however, county folk are more supportive of our Constitution while city folk tend to be sell-outs.

You might discuss/propose the City Council change any laws which infringe upon your right to engage in lawful behavior on the city sidewalks and streets which your tax dollars built and maintain. Argue that a permit authorizes a business to conduct business on city property. It doesn't not revoke your right to be on that property, nor does it make the permit-holder the de-facto owner of the property. As a law-abiding citizen, you have the same right to be there as any other law-abiding citizen.


I'll write my city council person and ask them what they think about this. If several others here in the Springs do likewise, it may be enough for the City Council to say, "Hey, you're right! That's just not right."

Let me know how things go...

Links:

Colorado Springs City Council - There's also a link for you to find your district. E-mail and snail mail addresses are there, too.

ETA: My search turned up one applicable City Ordinance: "3.2.409: Unlawful Acts: C. It shall be unlawful for any person to obstruct, impede or interfere with any authorized assembly, person, vehicle or animal participating in a permitted special event." This seems to indicate both the actions of both the Event Manager and the Police Officers were themselves unlawful.


If you'd like to dig through Colorado Spring's City Code, be my guest! Link.


Excellent idea about petitioning City Council. I hadn't thought about that.

I saw the Ordinance about interfering with a participant of the event, and I took it to mean people that were working the event, not visitor, but I think you are right. As a visitor, I am participating in the event. I will see if there is a way that I can PM you. I'd like to discuss this further.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Virginia has state preemption. Or so you would think, reading the code section.

Seems our Attorney General thinks that a permit for a private organization to use a part of a public park means that the private organization can do away with preemption in the entire park. He did it by some serious juggling of notions about the law, ariving at the conclusion that when the local government (otherwise enjoined by preemption) leases the use of public property it gives up the restrictions of preemption.

http://www.oag.state.va.us/Opinions and Legal Resources/Opinions/2010opns/10-009-Greason.pdf

This event does not entail a boundary marker deliniating the portion of the park leased to the private organization. Citizens who were using another part of the park could enter at will from any point, and without being required to pay an entry fee. :banghead: and :cuss: do nothing to express how I feel about the shoddy legal reasoning in this opinion.

Contrast that with an annual craft fair/art exhibition sponsored by a local private university, with activities taking place both on the campus and on the public sidewalks and streets that go through the campus. The campus and town cops are aware that no firearms are allowed on campus. They also are aware that the sidewalks and streets are not part of the campus. I attend this event more to make sure that the right to OC is not infringed than to look at (or heavens forbid, to buy!) the crafts/art.

It seems it is more a matter of pride than of legal certitude that prevents our AG from reversing his position, even when cornered and made to opine on whether or not a local government may surrender rights or obligations to a third-party lessee. He stammers and "yes, but.."s for all he's worth.

Good luck to you.

stay safe.
 

papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
Location
mayberry, nc
Why dont you cite the law? Find me the law that backs up your points. Put your money where your mouth is and cite some law

D.E. since you are a newbie and /or don't realize what you are doing. for your reputation, you are the one that declared it the law. an old idea, but the laws do not tell you what is legal but what is illegal.

so do you have a cite, or are you just making stuff up as you go along?
 

Deserteagle8338

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
104
Location
CO
D.E. since you are a newbie and /or don't realize what you are doing. for your reputation, you are the one that declared it the law. an old idea, but the laws do not tell you what is legal but what is illegal.

so do you have a cite, or are you just making stuff up as you go along?

Getting a little mad are we? Why dont you prove me wrong? Or are you making stuff up?
 
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