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Thread: 911 call goes unaided....no police available.....woman raped

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    911 call goes unaided....no police available.....woman raped

    This happened in Cave Junction Oregon, in Josephine County. The sheriff's department has been cut to just just 5 deputies plus the sheriff. They operate 5 days per week, 8 hours per day, on a rotating and unpublished schedule. BUT....they weren't working on the morning of August 18th 2012 when a woman called for assistance.

    Here is the transcribed 911 call in which the state police call taker can do nothing more than talk to the soon to be victim and suggest she calls 911 if the assailant gets into her home......which is who she called to begin with.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwut6UFJfoQ
    Last edited by We-the-People; 05-25-2013 at 05:55 PM. Reason: Correct a speeeeeling errrroor
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Made Russia Today http://rt.com/usa/oregon-rape-josephine-county-647/

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    The lesson to be learned is that, while having properly functioning LE can help deter and punish crime, it does not keep you safe. Your safety is...

    wait for it...

    YOUR responsibility.

    When you make others responsible for you, you enslave yourself to them.

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The lesson to be learned is that, while having properly functioning LE can help deter and punish crime, it does not keep you safe. Your safety is...

    wait for it...

    YOUR responsibility.

    When you make others responsible for you, you enslave yourself to them.
    Yep. This tape is a damn good "advertisement" for that exact sentiment.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    The real problem is that the federal government destroyed that county's economy by closing the forest service lands to logging. Before the 1980s Josephine county funded themselves by timber royalties, then the Feds closed logging and started giving grants to the counties there, then cut the grants last year. Since the majority of the land Is USFS land they can't sell it and collect property tax, they can't allow logging, so the only option is operate with no effective government as they are now, or to beg congress for cash...this is a perfect example of how over regulation by the government leads to bad things...

    Maybe they should start an armed neighborhood watch.... She should buy some guns too
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The lesson to be learned is that, while having properly functioning LE can help deter and punish crime, it does not keep you safe. Your safety is...

    wait for it...

    YOUR responsibility.

    When you make others responsible for you, you enslave yourself to them.

    When you make others responsible for you, you enslave yourself to them. This is a very strong statement that I believe will even get the non thinkers thinking. Do you mind if I use this at some point

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    911 call goes unaided....no police available.....woman raped

    Quote Originally Posted by Troy bilt View Post
    When you make others responsible for you, you enslave yourself to them. This is a very strong statement that I believe will even get the non thinkers thinking. Do you mind if I use this at some point
    The precise wording I used may be mine, but the idea is an old one, so I don't own it. However, I will gladly take a nickel each time you quote me.

    When I was a teacher, I used every opportunity I got to try to teach this lesson. I can't say for sure, but I suspect that the wording of this message slapped a bunch of my students upside the head. About half my students were black. I hope it made them think.

    I hope it made all my students think, but when you use the word "enslave," it more aggressively grabs the attention of the segment of the population whose heritage includes slavery.


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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The lesson to be learned is that, while having properly functioning LE can help deter and punish crime, it does not keep you safe. Your safety is...

    wait for it...

    YOUR responsibility.

    When you make others responsible for you, you enslave yourself to them.
    +1

    The first person responsible for not stopping this crime is the rapist.

    The second person responsible for not stopping this crime is the victim.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    911 call goes unaided....no police available.....woman raped

    Self-defense is 100% you.

    The police are no substitution for a gun when life and limb count.

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    Sorry you got raped. Please play the "Dial 911 and Pray" game again.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Now, according to the police on other forums, if someone had reported a gun they would have "had to respond." Lesson learned here, guys.
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    Of course, if there had been a gun present the whole 'call the police' thing might not have even been an issue
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    Except that according to one report, the woman was a "prohibited person" and by law was prevented from having the means to protect herself.
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    Which kinda brings me back to 'lesson learned.'

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Now, according to the police on other forums, if someone had reported a gun they would have "had to respond." Lesson learned here, guys.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Of course, if there had been a gun present the whole 'call the police' thing might not have even been an issue
    .
    .
    .
    .
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    Except that according to one report, the woman was a "prohibited person" and by law was prevented from having the means to protect herself.
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    Which kinda brings me back to 'lesson learned.'

    Then again, if there isn't a cop to respond, they pretty much can't send one. Which begs the question, what if the 911 caller had called and said "yeah, a guy tried to rape me and the body is laying in my front room"......would they have FOUND a cop to respond?
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    She could of tried, Officer Down at (her address). Shots fired etc.

    CCJ

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    If I were the elected sheriff I'd make it a policy to say, if somebody is reporting a felony, then wake me up at home and I will get over there...

    Of course that would still take too long so having the means to protect yourself is tantamount...
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    911 call goes unaided....no police available.....woman raped

    My policy would be that, if you (being the LEOs under my command) are not working another felony or somehow protecting life or limb, you call in within seconds, the closest officer calling in gets dispatched, as does the next closest. One of the criteria on which I would evaluate the officers is how often they drop what they are doing and respond to a citizen in real need. They should abandon ticket-writing, checkpoints, speedtraps, security checks, and all that other crap, to remember that the slogan on the side of their patrol car that says "to serve and protect."


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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    My policy would be that, if you (being the LEOs under my command) are not working another felony or somehow protecting life or limb, you call in within seconds, the closest officer calling in gets dispatched, as does the next closest. One of the criteria on which I would evaluate the officers is how often they drop what they are doing and respond to a citizen in real need. They should abandon ticket-writing, checkpoints, speedtraps, security checks, and all that other crap, to remember that the slogan on the side of their patrol car that says "to serve and protect."


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    Eye, read the story, this department had 30 officers and had to lay off 25 due to a reduction in federal grants (that wouldn't be nessecary if th county could allow logging but the Feds declared the area a wilderness) they don't have any officers at all working at times and state troopers were dispatched from more then 50 miles away. There was no one to send already on patrol
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    911 call goes unaided....no police available.....woman raped

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Eye, read the story, this department had 30 officers and had to lay off 25 due to a reduction in federal grants (that wouldn't be nessecary if th county could allow logging but the Feds declared the area a wilderness) they don't have any officers at all working at times and state troopers were dispatched from more then 50 miles away. There was no one to send already on patrol
    I was responding to the post above mine, not to the story.

    However, there should always be an officer on call. If I were in charge, I'd expect there would be someone (if no one else, me!) designated to respond. Period. That is the only real reason to have police.


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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Eye, read the story, this department had 30 officers and had to lay off 25 due to a reduction in federal grants (that wouldn't be nessecary if th county could allow logging but the Feds declared the area a wilderness) they don't have any officers at all working at times and state troopers were dispatched from more then 50 miles away. There was no one to send already on patrol
    Actualy, state troopers were NOT dispatched. No one came until the next day when neighbors called in that the woman had been beaten and raped. There is more to the tapes but I didn't want to post 40 minutes of the state troopers (possibly other officers as well) calling back and forth with dispatch trying to find her and the attacker.

    The entire county has been told "if it's not life or death, we're not coming" because we simply don't have the manpower.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    This scenario begs the question.

    Is the goverment obligated under the constitution to protect its citizens? If yes, they clearly violated that obligation in this case.

    My .02

    CCJ

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    911 call goes unaided....no police available.....woman raped

    It is not so obligated. The courts have ruled such numerous times--and I agree.

    It is when the government tries to meet some perceived obligation to each and every individual that it ends up usurping those individual's rights.

    The goal of government should be to foster an environment where our rights are generally protected from each other and from the government itself. If it tries to generally protect rights, it will rarely infringe. When it tries to protect all rights for all individuals, it ends up infringing more than it protects.


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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    This scenario begs the question.

    Is the goverment obligated under the constitution to protect its citizens? If yes, they clearly violated that obligation in this case.

    My .02

    CCJ
    No, see Gonzales v. Castle Rock and Warren v. District of Columbia there is not an individual "right" to police protection... the police only have an obligation to the "public at large". think about it, if you had a "right" to police protection then anyone who was the victim of a crime could sue stating their right was violated and that the police are responsible for damages for not responding fast enough....
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    This reminds me of what happened to my sister in-law. She lived roughly 4 city blocks from the city police station in Garden City MI.(Detroit suburb) This made her feel very safe until one morning at approx. 4am a unknown man was attempting to break into her house. She dialled 911 & was told "we don't have anyone to send now - if he gets in call back..." luckily she had the good sense to hit her car alarm which was parked on the street and the crack head took off. The police never came. She had always been anti-gun up to that point. The next day I went out and helped pick out a 12ga shot gun & took her to the range. She shoots it well & now understands what the police are really there for. Which is to take the report after the crime & put up the tape & draw the chalk outlines. She is now a strong 2A supporter.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 05-26-2013 at 01:25 AM. Reason: typo
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    Regular Member Jamesm760's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    This reminds me of what happened to my sister in-law. She lived roughly 4 city blocks from the city police station in Garden City MI.(Detroit suburb) This made her feel very safe until one morning at approx. 4am a unknown man was attempting to break into her house. She dialled 911 & was told "we don't have anyone to send now - if he gets in call back..." luckily she had the good sense to hit her car alarm which was parked on the street and the crack head took off. The police never came. She had always been anti-gun up to that point. The next day I went out and helped pick out a 12ga shot gun & took her to the range. She shoots it well & now understands what the police are really there for. Which is to take the report after the crime & put up the tape & draw the chalk outlines. She is now a strong 2A supporter.
    +1
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    No, see Gonzales v. Castle Rock and Warren v. District of Columbia there is not an individual "right" to police protection... the police only have an obligation to the "public at large". think about it, if you had a "right" to police protection then anyone who was the victim of a crime could sue stating their right was violated and that the police are responsible for damages for not responding fast enough....
    Great case- Thank you for that post.

    What number of victims would qualify as " The public at large"? 2-5-12-20?

    Lets say our perp knew the closes LEO was 45 miles away. He also knows of a local barn dance with maybe 10-12 couples. He decides he wants to rob and may be assault the local dancers and may be even beats one up.
    One of the dance goers sneaks outside and calls the SP, only to find they are 45 miles away.
    While talking with the SP dispatcher the citizen is discovered and shot and killed by the perp who also decides that he likes the feel of killing so he returns to the barn and happily kills 6 couples.
    Hence he killed 13 citizens. Do you think 13 would qualify as " Public at Large"

    TIA for all reply's

    CCJ

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    If the rape victim was indeed a "prohibited person" as mentioned in one if the police comments, how does that change the argument? The government says she can't have a gun to defend herself with but also fails to have enough police available to respond when called.
    Another idea probably best discussed in a separate thread is the idea of volunteer or paid on call deputies similar to firefighters. When you don't have money available for a fulltime fire department the answer is to form a volunteer fire department so you have someone who can get out of bed and show up when someone calls 911. Maybe the Sheriff should look into forming a reserve or auxiliary unit of unpaid but trained citizens who would be armed andto have limited arrest powers . These auxiliary deputies could be paged out the way volunteer firefighters are. The can show up and control the situation until the Sheriff or State Troopers arrive to take over and formally arrest the would be rapist.
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