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Thread: Duty to Announce?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Rebel's Avatar
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    Duty to Announce?

    I'm new to the site. There's lots of good information here,
    but I don't see exactly what I'm looking for.

    My question is,
    if I am carrying, either open or concealed, and I am stopped by police of any sort,
    local, county or state, for any reason,
    do I have a duty to announce that I am carrying at the beginning of the encounter?

    I'm thinking, like a traffic stop, and the police cannot immediately see my open carry firearm,
    or obviously cannot see my concealed firearm.

    Can someone please tell me where to look?
    My hours of searching have proved fruitless so far.

    Thanks for you help.

    Rebel

  2. #2
    Regular Member reddn's Avatar
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    Re: Duty to Announce?

    handgunlaw.us click on oregon

    Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2

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    The Answer: No

    No...if they ask, most people would go with, do not lie.

    If you are OCing, where legal, don't answer any questions.

    'Am I being detained or am I free to go?'

  4. #4
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    You won't find it anywhere in the law as there is no duty to inform. Don't be surprised if the police don't know this but you are not obligated, whether open or concealed, to inform anyone that you are carrying..

    Here is a link to two Portland PD officers discussing this very issue over the radio when a CHL holder didn't inform. This was a few years ago and I believe they are a little more informed now but you never know when you'll encounter the officer that "missed the memo". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAM1511fUlM

    Now, if you're OC and in a traffic stop you might consider informing the officer(s) JUST so that they don't freak out if your movements suddenly expose your weapon. Here's my concern in such a situation.......Officer at your side of car is chatting with you and everythings fine. Officer 2 approaches passenger side, sees your OC holstered weapon and yells GUN as they do. Officer you're talking to is surprised and has no idea where the gun is or what is happening and over reacts.

    My preferred method of informing in such a situation is to greet the officer at the window and hand him BOTH my drivers license and CHL. They will usually then ask "are you carrying now" and I say "yes, holstered on my right side". So far that's worked fine for me.

    When OC and out and about.....if an officer approaches I won't inform, he knows I'm carrying and where it is, that's why he's approaching me in the first place. Establish if I'm being detained. If not, based on officers demeanor I will decide whether to continue the encounter (if not detained). If detained, I'm done talking other than to say that I do not consent to any searches or seizures of my person or property.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Haunter's Avatar
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    Duty to Announce?

    WTP, do you engage your video for all encounters or is that dependent on the officers demeanor?

  6. #6
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter View Post
    WTP, do you engage your video for all encounters or is that dependent on the officers demeanor?
    AUDIO and or video for ALL encounters (not that there have been many). Generally I only have audio on me (my IPOD has an app that cannot be shut down without a password). If we were not a "must inform" state, I would have audio running continuously when in "indian country".
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Rebel's Avatar
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    Thanks.
    Good information.

    Rebel

  8. #8
    Regular Member Cremator75's Avatar
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    Re: Duty to Announce?

    You must inform when audio recording but don't need consent.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cremator75 View Post
    You must inform when audio recording but don't need consent.
    So, a sign hanging from the neck stating, "The audio is being recorded" would be fully compliant?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  10. #10
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cremator75 View Post
    You must inform when audio recording but don't need consent.
    That's the safe thing to do but will be changing shortly. We already have at least two circuits that have said you can record in public without informing. That's persuasive, though not binding, in other circuits and it's only a matter of time before the 9th takes a case on the issue.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  11. #11
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    So, a sign hanging from the neck stating, "The audio is being recorded" would be fully compliant?
    Not here as you must inform ALL parties, not just the ones you're facing. So you would need signage that covers all possible directions of approach.

    I believe that if you are openly recording that the case, if persued, would be won. If not in the original trial, then in the court of appeals. With the widespread use of digital recording devices, it would be hard to say that people didn't know you were recording them when you were holding up an electronic device and pointing it at them. This is even more so if the recorder is a camcorder rather than a cell phone.

    However, some jurisdictions may make the arrest and then drop the charges if the defendant doesn't plea out. Dropping the charges allows them to maintain the regulation so that they can continue to harass those who record. If they persue, they know they have a good chance of losing and therefore losing their questionable use of the regulation in the first place.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  12. #12
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    Not here as you must inform ALL parties, not just the ones you're facing. So you would need signage that covers all possible directions of approach.

    I believe that if you are openly recording that the case, if persued, would be won. If not in the original trial, then in the court of appeals. With the widespread use of digital recording devices, it would be hard to say that people didn't know you were recording them when you were holding up an electronic device and pointing it at them. This is even more so if the recorder is a camcorder rather than a cell phone.

    However, some jurisdictions may make the arrest and then drop the charges if the defendant doesn't plea out. Dropping the charges allows them to maintain the regulation so that they can continue to harass those who record. If they persue, they know they have a good chance of losing and therefore losing their questionable use of the regulation in the first place.
    That is where you use a 1983 federal law suit to fix the problem permanently.

    OH, I never tell them I am armed. First, I OC and if they are that interested they can see my carry. Second, my carry has absolutely NOTHING to do with a traffic stop...Kind of like "how do you like my SAF (or NRA, or...) hat" It is totally irrelevant. Do not make it relevant by mentioning it.
    Last edited by hermannr; 05-28-2013 at 08:56 PM.

  13. #13
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    made you say it .... duty lol

    i got a duty to do jack crap !

  14. #14
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    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    That is where you use a 1983 federal law suit to fix the problem permanently.

    OH, I never tell them I am armed. First, I OC and if they are that interested they can see my carry. Second, my carry has absolutely NOTHING to do with a traffic stop...Kind of like "how do you like my SAF (or NRA, or...) hat" It is totally irrelevant. Do not make it relevant by mentioning it.
    While the red is correct, your firearm has nothing to do with a traffic stop, if you don't mind (possibly trigger happy) cop(s) pointing guns at you and demanding you step out of the vehicle slowly(<over reaction) then by all means, let them find out on their own.

    So, while you have no need to tell them, most do tell them. It is not a courtesy, it out of the want to live, rather then some rookie cop opening fire because he saw a gun and it kinda looked like your hand was getting closer to it...oh wait...that was a cell phone...damn...<it has happened, and it can happen again.

    Feel free to make the decision for yourself, both are correct, depending on the logic you wish to apply to yourself.

  15. #15
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45 Fan View Post
    While the red is correct, your firearm has nothing to do with a traffic stop, if you don't mind (possibly trigger happy) cop(s) pointing guns at you and demanding you step out of the vehicle slowly(<over reaction) then by all means, let them find out on their own.

    So, while you have no need to tell them, most do tell them. It is not a courtesy, it out of the want to live, rather then some rookie cop opening fire because he saw a gun and it kinda looked like your hand was getting closer to it...oh wait...that was a cell phone...damn...<it has happened, and it can happen again.

    Feel free to make the decision for yourself, both are correct, depending on the logic you wish to apply to yourself.
    43 years of OC, in and out of a vehicle...never met any LE like you describe. Doesn't mean they don't exist.

    Procedure at a traffic stop to make the most jittery LEO happy. Pull over, turn off engine, have necessary information in hand, and both hands on the steering wheel.

    unlike some people, I do not carry my DL in my pocket, (there is no need fro a DL outside your vehicle) it is in the center console of my vehicle along with my insurance card and my vehicle registration. It takes as much motion (visible from outside the vehicle) to retrieve what is necessary in a traffic stop as it does to turn off the engine.

    I have never been asked for my CPL, and I have never been disarmed. I also do not get stopped very often, but that has to do with other things, like a car that checks all the lights when you turn the key on, and a nuts on cruise control. (calibrated with a GPS).

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    Quote Originally Posted by 45 Fan View Post
    While the red is correct, your firearm has nothing to do with a traffic stop, if you don't mind (possibly trigger happy) cop(s) pointing guns at you and demanding you step out of the vehicle slowly(<over reaction) then by all means, let them find out on their own.
    I don't mind. I know what a tort claim notice looks like and the address to where it'd being sent is right there on the citation.

    Half a dozen stops, over the years, multiple jurisdictions, never announced, never a problem.

    Your own mileage may vary, of course, and you need to make the decision for yourself.

  17. #17
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunhobbit View Post
    I don't mind. I know what a tort claim notice looks like and the address to where it'd being sent is right there on the citation.

    Half a dozen stops, over the years, multiple jurisdictions, never announced, never a problem.

    Your own mileage may vary, of course, and you need to make the decision for yourself.
    Such situations remind me of something my father taught me when he was teaching me to drive and I didn't slow down as a car was getting ready to make a left in the oncoming lane. He said I should have slowed down. I said I had the right of way. He explained that it didn't matter who has the right of way if I end up dead........MAJOR INSIGHT occurred right then.

    Another insight from my father (retired Calif Highway Patrol)........ Right of WEIGHT is far more important that right of WAY if you want to stay alive.

    In other words, just because you're right, doesn't mean you'll survive the encounter.

    Right or wrong doesn't matter if YOU end up dead because of a jumpy cop. On the other hand you're widow shouldn't have any problem finding a lawyer to take the case. He probably knows exactly where to send the tort claim as well.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    Right or wrong doesn't matter if YOU end up dead because of a jumpy cop. On the other hand you're widow shouldn't have any problem finding a lawyer to take the case. He probably knows exactly where to send the tort claim as well.
    Correct.

    Of course, one also needs to make the decision as to whether announcing will PRODUCE a jumpy officer or other interesting interactions.

    Ain't life grand?

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    Mm...80,000 miles in 2 years about(low estimate)....so, yeah...

  20. #20
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wowwie!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 45 Fan View Post
    Mm...80,000 miles in 2 years about(low estimate)....so, yeah...
    Sooo, you think, about 80,000 miles,,, well youre way off...so, yeah...
    Thanks for your great reply!

    Back to the topic, Nver inform, unless required by Law,,,a stupid law..

    Telling a cop that you are armed produces at least a 50 percent chance that he WILL get all jumpy, and act twitchy...
    Stick to the business of the DL, insurance and registration, hands on wheel, window down an inch, no talking...
    Be polite.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Honestly...in Oregon, you have to make your own decision. Most would go with, as I said earlier, Don't Lie if Asked. Whether you bring it to their attention or not, is between you and your conscience. But make sure you do it for the right reasons, don't do it because you think you have to, do it if you feel the situation warrants it.

    As for the guy above, while he is probably right, his window down an inch theory probably just pisses off cops more, so if they were just going to tell you to slow down and leave you alone, they gonna ticket you cuz you hacked them off for no reason...SPEED LIMITS EXIST, JUST LIKE GUN SAFETY. my two cents...

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    Recognizing, of course, that when your license is run in Oregon the fact that you have an Oregon CHL shows - or is reported, in most departments.

    Or so I'm told.
    Last edited by Gunhobbit; 06-03-2013 at 05:23 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunhobbit View Post
    Recognizing, of course, that when your license is run in Oregon the fact that you have an Oregon CHL shows - or is reported, in most departments.

    Or so I'm told.
    I have found that your CPL in WA is in a different database than your DL. While LE CAN ask if you have a CPL, if they do not specifically ask, they will NOT be given the information. Why waste their time and yours when there is no need?
    Last edited by hermannr; 06-03-2013 at 08:20 PM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    I have found that your CPL in WA is in a different database than your DL. While LE CAN ask if you have a CPL, if they do not specifically ask, they will NOT be given the information. Why waste their time and yours when there is no need?
    Certainly my theory. But it's a decision everyone needs to make for himself, obviously.

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