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Thread: Non-resident OC

  1. #1
    Regular Member JohnM15A's Avatar
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    Non-resident OC

    I live in VA but also have a home in OR that I plan to retire to in a few years. In the meantime I vacation there twice a year and was wondering if I can purchase a sidearm in OR and OC there? I know from what I have researched that I cannot get and CC permit until I am a resident but would really like to OC now that a Cougar is hanging out near our home there...

  2. #2
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnM15A View Post
    I live in VA but also have a home in OR that I plan to retire to in a few years. In the meantime I vacation there twice a year and was wondering if I can purchase a sidearm in OR and OC there? I know from what I have researched that I cannot get and CC permit until I am a resident but would really like to OC now that a Cougar is hanging out near our home there...
    Can't address the purchase issue as I don't know those laws but suspect that you can NOT purchase here. If you can't, simply bring your weapon with you from VA.

    You CAN obtain a CHL here, as a non resident you can apply in ANY county (Grant County is currently the most friendly and you WILL get your permit as long as you're background is clear).

    For the Non Resident CHL, refer to ORS 166.190 - 192
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnM15A View Post
    I live in VA but also have a home in OR that I plan to retire to in a few years. In the meantime I vacation there twice a year and was wondering if I can purchase a sidearm in OR and OC there? I know from what I have researched that I cannot get and CC permit until I am a resident but would really like to OC now that a Cougar is hanging out near our home there...
    Because you own a home in OR, even if it is not your primary home, you can apply for an OR CHL.

  4. #4
    Regular Member JohnM15A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Because you own a home in OR, even if it is not your primary home, you can apply for an OR CHL.
    Thanks Hemannr, wasn't sure about that but I have heard that if you own property there you are considered a resident. Now I just need to take a course... I was able to get my VA CHP because I was in the Army years ago. VA doesn't care if you have had hand gun training in the military but OR apparently does. OR specifically states that your DD214 must show that hand gun training was performed.

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    Regular Member J1MB0B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnM15A View Post
    Thanks Hemannr, wasn't sure about that but I have heard that if you own property there you are considered a resident. Now I just need to take a course... I was able to get my VA CHP because I was in the Army years ago. VA doesn't care if you have had hand gun training in the military but OR apparently does. OR specifically states that your DD214 must show that hand gun training was performed.
    I don't know about that. I'm a Washington resident and I got my Oregon CHL through Columbia Co. All I showed them was an expired range card from an M9 pistol range.
    Last edited by J1MB0B; 05-29-2013 at 12:40 PM. Reason: Bad spellers of the world untie!

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Per ORS 166.291 (1)

    (f) Demonstrates competence with a handgun by any one of the following:

    (A) Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the State Department of Fish and Wildlife or a similar agency of another state if handgun safety was a component of the course;

    (B) Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course if handgun safety was a component of the course;

    (C) Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by law enforcement, community college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or a law enforcement agency if handgun safety was a component of the course;

    (D) Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, reserve law enforcement officers or any other law enforcement officers if handgun safety was a component of the course;

    (E) Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a handgun through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;

    (F) Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state, unless the license has been revoked; or

    (G) Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a firearms instructor certified by a law enforcement agency or the National Rifle Association if handgun safety was a component of the course;



    I believe the Grant County sheriff recognizes the Maryland State Police online firearms safety course. You could probably inquire of them by e-mail if you plan to apply throuigh them.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  7. #7
    Regular Member JohnM15A's Avatar
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    Thanks We-the-People, but I don't meet any of those requirements. The "experience with a handgun" I don't have. Yes I have used guns all my life and yes I OC all the time in VA but my DD214 does not show any handgun experience. So I need to take a course that OR recognizes... Not that big of a deal just need to do it. I did take a hunter safety course when I was 10ish (50 years ago) but it didn't have anything handgun nor do I have any evidence that I took it.

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    Regular Member Mattimusmaximus's Avatar
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    Non-resident OC

    According to fish and game your suppose to call them and they will relocate your "kitty". If it becomes a serious problem to A. Your livestock or pets. Kill it. B. if it becomes a danger to your family, kill it. This all works the same if deer were eating your crops.. And you don't even need a cougar tag as long as it falls on your property. But I'm sure you know of this already. That sounds fun.. Or call the fish an game


    -Matt of Hillsboro OR-

  9. #9
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnM15A View Post
    Thanks We-the-People, but I don't meet any of those requirements. The "experience with a handgun" I don't have. Yes I have used guns all my life and yes I OC all the time in VA but my DD214 does not show any handgun experience. So I need to take a course that OR recognizes... Not that big of a deal just need to do it. I did take a hunter safety course when I was 10ish (50 years ago) but it didn't have anything handgun nor do I have any evidence that I took it.
    Agree, contact Sheriff Palmer in Grant Co. He will give you the straight scoop.
    Last edited by hermannr; 06-03-2013 at 08:28 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member JohnM15A's Avatar
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    Denied

    Here is what happened. The wife and I took a handgun safety course in VA to meet that requirement. I did see that if one owns or leases property that one is a county resident ( http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.291 ). So I went to the sheriff's office in Grants Pass (I have property in Josephine County) to apply for my CHL. I was told I could not apply because I did not have an OR issued pictured ID. She told me that they are not issuing out of state CHLs. I told her I was not out of state because I owned property in the county. We argued a bit. She said because I did not have an OR drivers license that I was out of state (I only have a VA drivers license). I told her that the requirements listed on their web page did not specify what state the license is needed and that I met the residency requirement. I gave up and left. In VA we take county clerks to the VA supreme court when they do not follow the law. Is she following the law?

  11. #11
    Regular Member Cremator75's Avatar
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    I think the law is pretty clear. You own property. You could also get an OR id. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it needs to be a DL.

  12. #12
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnM15A View Post
    Here is what happened. The wife and I took a handgun safety course in VA to meet that requirement. I did see that if one owns or leases property that one is a county resident ( http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.291 ). So I went to the sheriff's office in Grants Pass (I have property in Josephine County) to apply for my CHL. I was told I could not apply because I did not have an OR issued pictured ID. She told me that they are not issuing out of state CHLs. I told her I was not out of state because I owned property in the county. We argued a bit. She said because I did not have an OR drivers license that I was out of state (I only have a VA drivers license). I told her that the requirements listed on their web page did not specify what state the license is needed and that I met the residency requirement. I gave up and left. In VA we take county clerks to the VA supreme court when they do not follow the law. Is she following the law?
    I do not see the requirement for an Oregon DL to apply for you CHL in ORS 166.291 or 292. I would ask to speak with the Sheriff.

    That said, down around Grants Pass, just OC. The only restrictions you would have are in ORS 166.360-380.

  13. #13
    Regular Member JohnM15A's Avatar
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    Do you guys in OR have a support group like VCDL we have in VA? Basically VCDL is a non-profit that protects citizens 2A rights by investigating and taking legal action to make things right. Just recently VCDL took a county clerk to court to get her to follow the law on concealed handgun permits. Basically she was requiring those applying to apply in person and submit two checks and that is not what the law stipulates. We all chipped in to help pay the lawyers fees and she backed down before the court date and said she will comply... Is there a friend of the Josephine sheriff that could bring up this issue?

    I won't have another opportunity to apply again until I will be out here in OR i n the Fall.

    Frankly, I prefer to have a CHL even when I OC because it gives you additional protection...
    Last edited by JohnM15A; 06-24-2013 at 10:48 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Cremator75's Avatar
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    Contact these guys and see if they can help you.

    http://www.oregonfirearms.org

  15. #15
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cremator75 View Post
    Contact these guys and see if they can help you.

    http://www.oregonfirearms.org
    ^^^^^^^
    DITTO

    Kevin Starette runs Oregon Firearms Federation and he will be the one that responds to your message. He is THE go to guy in trying to deal with these kinds of issues.

    I would also say, just OC. I've been OCing in the Medford area since 2009 and had one encounter with police (lasted a couple seconds) and that didn't happen until I went for a walk with a local who "pushes the envelope" on a weekly basis.

    PM me if you like.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  16. #16
    Regular Member JohnM15A's Avatar
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    Thanks, We-The-People, but I like to have the CHL for a few reasons:

    1. Exercise the right. If more and more folks got a CHL then maybe the need for the license would disappear.
    2. Additional legal insurance. Police and courts know you to be a stand up person a bit more with a CHL. It also helps if one accidently covers their firearm. In the winter, not so easy OCing with a coat.
    3. I find that there are occasions where I prefer to conceal. I know this rubs the OC purists the wrong way but sometimes I feel it is better to conceal; weddings of the non-pro-gun, large crowds, when I don't want to be the center of attention...
    4. Timing. Sometimes it is better to CC when entering an event and then OC after I'm in. This way you are past the main scrutinizers and once in very few of the event people see you. Usually the local LEOs at the event don't know the events rules but they do know that OC is OK in VA.

    I do, in VA OC 99.999% of the time so I know what it is like.

    I am now working with Kevin to some degree. Right now I'm just waiting for the Sheriff to respond to my emails. I sent him one to inform him what happened that day and he did respond to me basically indicating that I need an OR drivers license. I then responded indicating the the law requires that proof of property ownership can be one of the four, OR drivers license OR registered to vote OR proof of property ownership OR OR taxes paid. He has not responded to that email and I have sent him another email indicating that they could use their own county database to look up property ownership quickly and efficiently without relying on possible forged documents showing proof of ownership. For those that care here is the Josephine County web site to look up property ownership: http://www.co.josephine.or.us/page.asp?navid=921 You just enter in a piece of the address and it will list the owner(s). You think the sheriff would trust his own county's database. I also asked him what document is acceptable for proof property ownership. I'll be flying back to VA this Friday so I won't have an opportunity to reapply until Fall when we come out for another vacation. No, I'm not a snowbird, we just bought our retirement home before both of us retired and plan to move completely out in a few years or sooner.

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    Regular Member jhfc's Avatar
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    Chiming in on my personal experience....

    I was an Oregon resident - Clackamas county and had my CHL. Subsequently, I moved to Vancouver WA and got my CPL up here. I continue to own property in Clackamas county.

    I contacted the Clackamas county clerk who handles the CHL and she said with proof of ownership (I used a tax statement), they would issue me a new CHL with my Washington address. I don't have an Oregon DL. They treated it as a "change of address" rather than as issuing a new permit.

    Now, I have an Oregon CHL issued by Clackamas county.

  18. #18
    Regular Member JohnM15A's Avatar
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    I just received an email from the sheriff that states that it "appears" that I own property and that they will now accept my CHL application. YAY! The only problem is that I will be returning to VA this Friday and will not be able to apply until I return to OR this Fall since the sheriff's office for CHL applications are only open on Mondays. I emailed the good sheriff to ask what document would be proof of property ownership since it is not stated anywhere that I have seen and the law does not specify. I told the sheriff that because the way the law was written the discretion of what document is acceptable lies with him... Somehow, it appears that this Fall when I return I will be going through this again...

  19. #19
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnM15A View Post
    I just received an email from the sheriff that states that it "appears" that I own property and that they will now accept my CHL application. YAY! The only problem is that I will be returning to VA this Friday and will not be able to apply until I return to OR this Fall since the sheriff's office for CHL applications are only open on Mondays. I emailed the good sheriff to ask what document would be proof of property ownership since it is not stated anywhere that I have seen and the law does not specify. I told the sheriff that because the way the law was written the discretion of what document is acceptable lies with him... Somehow, it appears that this Fall when I return I will be going through this again...
    You might also ask Sheriff Gil if he could arrange an exception for you on the "CHL hours" due to your situation and wanting to have the CHL in hand when you return. They're strapped for manpower over there so it's likely that can't be done but you never know if you don't ask. Might even end up getting you a face to face with the Sheriff.

    I wouldn't hold my breath but I'd certainly ask.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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  20. #20
    Regular Member JohnM15A's Avatar
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    I did think of asking for some special treatment but I only provided him an opportunity to offer. The last thing I wanted to do was to be a burden on the department. And I also don't have a pressing need for a CHL as I don't have a restraining order on anyone and will be leaving OR this Friday.

  21. #21
    Regular Member JohnM15A's Avatar
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    Just stopped by and checked out Fox Firearms in Grants Pass. They said that they could not sell me a gun unless I had a OR drivers license or a OR CHL. Even more reason to get my CHL. I was amazed to see new AR style rifles on the shelf for $900. Back in VA it is rare to see one since the big rush started.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Cremator75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnM15A View Post
    Just stopped by and checked out Fox Firearms in Grants Pass. They said that they could not sell me a gun unless I had a OR drivers license or a OR CHL. Even more reason to get my CHL. I was amazed to see new AR style rifles on the shelf for $900. Back in VA it is rare to see one since the big rush started.
    I've seen people from out of state buy guns at Keith's Sporting Goods before. Keith's just had to ship it to an FFL in the buyers state to do the transfer just like buying a gun online. Obviously that adds to the cost but there is a way.

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