Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: New Jersey: Court Upholds Man Arrested For Visible Gun Case In Car

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SE, WI
    Posts
    7,322

    New Jersey: Court Upholds Man Arrested For Visible Gun Case In Car

    http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/41/4110.asp

    Reininger believes he was targeted because of his Texas license plates. Officer Wester then looked inside the SUV with his flashlight noticed two nylon cases in the back seat. Once backup arrived, Officer Wester asked for consent to search the vehicle, but Reininger said no. Officer Wester then opened up the vehicle to search the cases "for safety reasons" any way. Reininger was arrested.

    After obtaining a warrant, police recovered fourteen rifles, four shotguns and three handguns, including a loaded Glock. A grand juror had asked the prosecutor whether this man would have been charged if he had used a different case.


    Talk about BS! Illegal search and seizure and still gets convicted. I will never visit NJ!
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Its total BS as far as the law making it illegal. As far as the search goes ... I think its BS but the courts ruled otherwise...they also got a warrant (likely referencing the guns they did find via the warrant less search).

    Always cover your gun cases (I always have -- with an opaque material & have had cops ask what's underneath the material -- I do not answer).

    Years ago, I used to transport guns in the same manner as the guy who just got screwed (or even a shotgun right next to me in my pickup where the behind-the-seat had guns filling up that area) ... and have been pulled over. Back then, guns in hillbilly-land were not deemed to be children killers. Cops usually just gave ya a verbal warning.

    Now you cannot do this ... I cover my cases and check with a flashlight to insure that none of the cases are visible (hatchback or backseat) and video tape the packing... and I always lock my door when I leave the vehicle if a cop asks to leave the vehicle (normally, they don't want you to leave your vehicle)....

    Its sad that we need to go to this extreme.

  3. #3
    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    425
    A number of states have seceded from the US and the Constitution, except that they can't break the lip lock they have on the teat of the Washington handouts.
    Last edited by XD40sc; 05-28-2013 at 06:34 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    3,277
    NJ is the toughest anti gun state in the country and now based on this case it appears they will do anything to uphold that reputation of being " The Toughest", even if they must violate a persons 4th and 14th amendment rights.

    Had he keep quit about the loaded hand gun and lawyer up right from the beginning of the encounter.
    The second he knew that he didn't have the registration or insurance, time to lawyer up. Lock the vehicle and lawyer up. Then he may have had a chance to win the case. ( easy to be a Monday morning quarterback) the incident still occurred in NJ.

    just my .02

    CCJ

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boone County, KY
    Posts
    312
    He could not use the FOPA 86 defense because he stopped in NJ, it wasn't a continuous journey and the loaded handgun did not exactly work in his favor. He is a gun enthusiast and ex LEO and had no idea what NJ gun laws are or the legalities of FOPA 86?. I guess he didn't qualify for LEOSA wither?

    If he just drove a few more miles he could have been in PA, and if he stopped there instead...perhaps the turn out would have been better and we would not be having this conversation.
    I am not a lawyer, I study the history of gun control laws.

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SE, WI
    Posts
    7,322
    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest View Post
    He could not use the FOPA 86 defense because he stopped in NJ, it wasn't a continuous journey and the loaded handgun did not exactly work in his favor. He is a gun enthusiast and ex LEO and had no idea what NJ gun laws are or the legalities of FOPA 86?. I guess he didn't qualify for LEOSA wither?

    If he just drove a few more miles he could have been in PA, and if he stopped there instead...perhaps the turn out would have been better and we would not be having this conversation.
    Regardless, he refused a search and they still searched his car without a warrant. Goes to show the justice system in NJ is corrupt, or at the very least, broken.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Regardless, he refused a search and they still searched his car without a warrant. Goes to show the justice system in NJ is corrupt, or at the very least, broken.
    One is free to resist what a person believes is an unconstitutional invasion...the courts will figure it out.

  8. #8
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    what can we learn from this?

    1) Don't drive through slave states with a gun
    2) if driving through slave states with a gun, do not stop
    3) if stopping in a slave state with a gun, the parking lot of a bank at three in the morning may not be a good spot
    4) anything that looks remotely gun related should covered
    5) when out on bail, skipping bail is a bad idea

    As a "police officer" he should've known better then to drive through NJ with all his guns and to look up the laws of where he is traveling before doing so.

    At this point his only recourse is to sue in federal courts, which is going to be chancy at best...
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    3,277
    Plain View Doctrine probably applies here.

    .02

    ccj

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    3,277

    Lets open carry in Galloway NJ

    HI Folks,

    I know NJ is a tough state for OC, however we only live ones.

    I purpose we set up a breakfast and a local dinner( Star Dinner) in Galloway NJ on rt 30 white horse pike. Then we head over to Renault Winery for some wine testing and some food. All while we are exercising our 2A right.
    I think it will be fun. Can we get 10 patriots to open carry with us.?
    Remember NJ is tough on open carry, but hell count me in.
    Anyone else interested contact me via email. Thank you all.

    Best regards,

    Countryclubjoe

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Plain View Doctrine probably applies here.

    .02

    ccj
    Michigan v Long is likely the applicable decision. It says, in effect, that if the cop has reasonable suspicion there are weapons in the car, he can search the parts of the car in reach of the occupants. I'm betting two gun cases = reasonable suspicion of guns in the minds of most judges.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-20-2013 at 11:22 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Notice how the cops asked for consent to search even though they had legal justification to search.

    This is apparently not uncommon. I've seen more than a few federal and state appellate case summaries where the cops asked for consent even though they had legal justification for the search without consent. By obtaining consent, even when they know they have legal justification, they strengthen their legal position against a possible motion to suppress by the defense attorney.

    I mention this because in times past, commentary on this board included the idea that if the cop asks consent it means he doesn't have legal justification. While often true, its not always true. This point fades into insignificance if you always refuse consent to searches.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Free, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    3,855
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Michigan v Long is likely the applicable decision. It says, in effect, that if the cop has reasonable suspicion there are weapons in the car, he can search the parts of the car in reach of the occupants. I'm betting two gun cases = reasonable suspicion of guns in the minds of most judges.
    A moronic decision by the SC after the MI SC got it right. Even so, search for weapons inside a car are only allowed with RAS. The cops had none, from what I see. A gun in a zippered case is not 'readily accessible." They had no legal standing to unzip them. This should be appealed in Federal Court. Springfield has great pistol cases that you can use for laptops and other things. Just because it looks like a duck doesn't mean it will quack.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •