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Thread: Call me cynical, or paranoid, or something....

  1. #1
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    Call me cynical, or paranoid, or something....

    But has anyone else noticed a significant amount of new names popping up with under 10 posts asking people to come OC in some rather questionable areas? Like Ste Gen or Fort Leonard Wood?

    I may just be overly cynical here, but it sure as heck feels like a play to get some negative press before the July deadline.....
    "Somebody ever tries to kill you, you try and kill em right back!" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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    More likely that due to the press talking about HB436, new people are wanting to try OC.
    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol
    Active OC/CC in Phelps county Area. (Rolla, St. James)

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoShade View Post
    More likely that due to the press talking about HB436, new people are wanting to try OC.
    I certainly hope that is the case. If it is, and I'm wrong (I hope I am), my apologies to everyone!
    "Somebody ever tries to kill you, you try and kill em right back!" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

  4. #4
    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    well it's just plain illegal in the city of Ste. Gen so i hope they have a good time there.

    if things work out i would gladly join a party in August, but not before then.
    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
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  5. #5
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broondog View Post
    well it's just plain illegal in the city of Ste. Gen so i hope they have a good time there.

    if things work out i would gladly join a party in August, but not before then.
    The group that spear headed the present OC amendment in HB436 are as anxious as everyone to broaden our OC experience. It's been three years in the making and we well remember the incidents that twice brought our efforts to a hault, especially the first one in Maplewood, MO. When the "incident" was carried on one of our local TV stations it wasn't 30 minutes before a State Rep called me and said "Your bill is dead for this year".

    It was!!! An incident the next year in Washington, MO. wasn't quite as bad but certainly didn't help.

    We are close to July 14th, the deadline for the Governor to act or not on HB436. This bill is getting national attention, not for the OC part, which when reported in very inaccurate to say the least.
    Many new folks are hearing about open carry, that's good. What many lack is any knowledge of past events and limitations of open carry. With so little time till a decision is made and the potential for the effective date of August 28th, the one thing we DO NOT need is bad press. Actually, at this point NO PRESS IS THE BEST PRESS.

    I've had numerous requests for interviews by the written press and radio shows throughout Missuri. I've told them all "NO", not until the law is assured. If the Governor does the veto thing, the effective date will not be aug. 28th, it will have to wait for the veto session and then only if the leadership in the House and Senate bring up HB436 for a veto over ride. If it gets to that point and they don't bring it for an over ride, it is Dead! There are no 100% any things in Jefferson City.

    The best thing right now, don't tread in untested waters, (Have OC gatherings were they are legal and better yet, where we've done them before and the LEOs are a non-issue) don't piss off the police and leave the press alone till the deed is done. It's only a month and a half till the Governor's dead line. I personally don't care if he signs it or lets it sit, the effective date would be August 28th and we can celebrate. If he vetos, we are on hold....If some one does some thing very stupid, we are dog meat! Figure it out....
    Last edited by mspgunner; 05-29-2013 at 05:35 PM.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
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  6. #6
    Regular Member HighValueWarrior's Avatar
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    There is a tremendous amount of aliasing on this site with people having multiple logins ...... you are not being paranoid at all.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
    Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

    "Where liberty dwells, there is my country."

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  7. #7
    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Hey Oramac...I've been thinking along those same lines. With the passage/approval of HB436 so close, I have wondered if the opposition is not trying to develop/instigate something to generate the headlines. I've had a couple of conversations with some folks here locally that are interested in OCing because of the publicity of this bill. I've encouraged them to hold off until it has been signed/ignored/vetoed (& overridden) before venturing out.

    Just my hunch....but I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see some headlines by an anti-gun person portraying themselves as a 2A activist, just to help generate negative press. IMHO...the storm is coming, the question is, how bad will it be and the ultimate effect.
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
    ~Mark Twain

  8. #8
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    Hey Oramac...I've been thinking along those same lines. With the passage/approval of HB436 so close, I have wondered if the opposition is not trying to develop/instigate something to generate the headlines. I've had a couple of conversations with some folks here locally that are interested in OCing because of the publicity of this bill. I've encouraged them to hold off until it has been signed/ignored/vetoed (& overridden) before venturing out.

    Just my hunch....but I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see some headlines by an anti-gun person portraying themselves as a 2A activist, just to help generate negative press. IMHO...the storm is coming, the question is, how bad will it be and the ultimate effect.
    I have PM'd a lot of people here and on the Facebook OC pages as well. I have no doubt there are a lot of new people interested in OC. I've met some of them and have responded
    to many posts. History has told us this time is so very important and those of us who have been around a few years know what has stuck us the back over and over again.
    as I have asked people, if you want to OC be sure it is legal, be prepared for what to do in the event of a LEO encounter, what to say and NOT say.

    OC events in places where we've done them before and the LEOs are Ok with it, fine. This is NOT the time to reach out to new venues. July 14th is the deadline for the Governor to act.
    If he signs HB436 fine, if he lets it sit to become law, fine.
    If he vetos the Bill we have to remain careful until the veto session in Sepember and hope there is a veto over ride. Bad press how could hurt us badly, very badly.
    We need the legislature to come
    through for us if we need the over ride. 3 years of work could be killed if anyone messes up. Just be very careful for a little while longer.... Then you can go CRAZY FOLKS....

    NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO ENGAGE IN "BAD" ENCOUNTERS.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    ......snip

    Bad press how could hurt us badly, very badly.
    We need the legislature to come
    through for us if we need the over ride. 3 years of work could be killed if anyone messes up. Just be very careful for a little while longer.... Then you can go CRAZY FOLKS....

    NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO ENGAGE IN "BAD" ENCOUNTERS.
    Oh so true!!
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
    ~Mark Twain

  10. #10
    Regular Member HP995's Avatar
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    If veto happens, and if pressure is needed, NAGR could probably be counted on to encourage their members to call and email legislators, and some other orgs might. There's radio shows too that could generate calls.

    If there is bad press, maybe try the same thing. If Jeff City got more calls from 2A supporters than gun grabbers after an incident, maybe the media would lose. Maybe not, but worth a try.

  11. #11
    Regular Member HighValueWarrior's Avatar
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    How about you stop shilling for 'NAGR' or any other group for that matter in the Missouri board.
    Put your comments in General Discussion or somewhere else, they do not belong here. It at least the 4th post I have seen you make on their behalf.
    No one cares about some group that got totally asss rolled in the state where their 'headquarters' are (Colorado) -- not to mention they are a total false flag operation set up by Bloomberg.

    Amazing how ready you are 'for something to happen' ........ I totally stand behind my remarks that you are an anti 2A troll.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
    Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

    "Where liberty dwells, there is my country."

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  12. #12
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    The open carry movement in Missouri is totally 100% a citizen idea. There are NO organizations of any sort behind th emovement nor or there any endorsements of this movement by any organized organizations.
    This is "WE THE PEOPLE"! Speaking for my self I don't want any 2A group comong in and saying they did or they wil help with OC legislation or getting our open carry part of HB436 passed. The work is done, if the Governor does a veto, we'll evealuate, There is a lot of time before the veto session.
    I'm not trying to be a one man show, but there are clear recommendations from within the capitol on what to do and what not to do. I'll hold on that til a decision has to be made. Soem actions (Calls, emails, visits) can do more harm then good. We are playing a game (Politics) where the "rules" are not printed on the inside of the lid of the box.

    Right now is NOT the time for any national 2A group to jump in. Actually this year is not their time either..... Now is the time to just sit and wait to see what the Honorable Governor Nixon does with HB436. Unless you are a best frind of his, sitting down at the dinner table or watching "Cops" in his living room nothing is really going to have much influence. Sure, emails throug his official site are OK, I doubt if they make a difference but I send them too!

    Hang team we've gone further then we've ever gone before and frankly I'm impressed we've made it this far.

    DO NO HARM TIME MAY HEAL...
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
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  13. #13
    Regular Member HP995's Avatar
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    Thanks Gunner, agreed, and it's in your capable hands. I said "if pressure is needed" meaning just that; if people like you or your contacts call for some pressure, or as a last resort if something bad happens, because then the 2A people have every right to be heard above the anti gunners. Otherwise it's not needed. I am not currently promoting any calls to action on the bill. (However, if orgs choose to do that based on their own research, that is their right and privilege. They can promote whatever they want, and I don't have a problem with it; in fact, I think it's good that they mentioned it.)

    Certain other person, do you live in MO now? I got an email from NAGR specifically about MO gun bills because I live here. Sometimes I get emails from NRA too, about MO bills and issues, because I live here. It's not general discussion when it's about HB 436, it's Missouri. And they did not get the topic from me. Each organization has their own agenda and can push any topics they like, it's a free country. This time they chose 436, that got my attention. I live here and it's absolutely my business. If an org mentions something related to efforts in this state and it looks noteworthy to me, I'll post it.

  14. #14
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    If Nixon signs 436 fine, if he lets it sit to become law, fine. If he vetos the bill it is soley up to to the House and Senate floor majority leaders to bring it up for a vote for a veto over ride. NO ONE I know of can influence thier decisions to bring it up or not. It is recommended, if there is a veto DONOT CALL, WRITE OR EMAIL THEIR OFFICE OR STAFF. The only exception to this is if you know those legislators of their staff on a personal basis. I've had the same response from many legislators when asked about this course of action. Hopefully it does NOT go to the veto session and we just sit back and enjoy the partial return of this "right". Next year is another year....But thats next year. Right now we hope what is in the mix gets done.



    Quote Originally Posted by HP995 View Post
    Thanks Gunner, agreed, and it's in your capable hands. I said "if pressure is needed" meaning just that; if people like you or your contacts call for some pressure, or as a last resort if something bad happens, because then the 2A people have every right to be heard above the anti gunners. Otherwise it's not needed. I am not currently promoting any calls to action on the bill. (However, if orgs choose to do that based on their own research, that is their right and privilege. They can promote whatever they want, and I don't have a problem with it; in fact, I think it's good that they mentioned it.)

    Certain other person, do you live in MO now? I got an email from NAGR specifically about MO gun bills because I live here. Sometimes I get emails from NRA too, about MO bills and issues, because I live here. It's not general discussion when it's about HB 436, it's Missouri. And they did not get the topic from me. Each organization has their own agenda and can push any topics they like, it's a free country. This time they chose 436, that got my attention. I live here and it's absolutely my business. If an org mentions something related to efforts in this state and it looks noteworthy to me, I'll post it.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

  15. #15
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    I have sought out more information from the powers that are in Jefferson City regarding a "veto" should it happen.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This is the response:
    Marc-
    The last day that Governor Nixon has to Veto a bill is July 14 of this year. Veto Session for the legislators then convenes on 9/11/2013. This session, by law, may only last up to 10 days. During a veto session, no amendments or changes are allowed on any given bill.

    Once veto session begins, the bills will be read in numerical order. When a bill comes up that a sponsor is interested in overriding the veto on it is their responsibility to stand up and offer that motion. There are several reasons why they may not stand: Leadership asked them not to, their party caucus asked them not to, or they know they won’t have enough votes in the other chamber for the override to go through.
    Filibusters are also allowed. With proper leadership, the filibuster will be short and controlled, or handled ahead of time to prevent time being wasted. Something else to keep in mind: Although we currently have a “Veto Proof” status, an actual veto override is rare.
    So if there’s concern of something being Vetoed, suggesting the voice of the people to call upon their Governor to act may still be a good idea.
    I hope this answered all of your questions. If not, feel free to ask me more!

    Cordially, xxxx
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I did email back "In the event of a veto, to who do we address letters, emails, phone calls of support should a veto happen to bill(s) we are interested, the sponsor of the bill(s) or leadership in the House and Senate"?
    Waiting for a response, won't post unless action is needed.............
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

  16. #16
    Regular Member HP995's Avatar
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    Gunner, I was about to submit this:

    Gunner, that's interesting...thanks...but do you understand that the org called NAGR is interested in this bill and two others? I did not promote it to them. In fact they look more interested in the CCW info protection and the main bill than the OC amendment. Other groups may be interested in the main bill too. 436 has a lot of angles, a lot of things to get different people and groups interested, not just us.

    Any of those people or groups could decide to make a call to action in case of a veto. Because of the CCW info scandal, I would say it's a bit unlikely that there would be a complete hush after a veto, isn't it? People see Nixon as related to that scandal, all the more so in case of a veto. It's fine to suggest that for us, I'll take that into consideration, but there's simply no possible way to prevent every person or group out there from contacting Jeff City, even if we agree with that strategy, because it's out of our control. And people have every right to contact governor or legislators at any time if they wish.
    before I saw your new post.

    OK, thanks for posting the update from powers that be. Since "suggesting the voice of the people to call upon their Governor to act may still be a good idea" then I guess I was correct in mentioning NAGR's interest. (No bias for or against them, if NRA or any other group had promoted it, I would have mentioned them too.) However, personally I would do a phone call rather than an email or petition. I think talking to a staffer could have more personal impact. I could be wrong. All those options are available. It might not hurt for the gov to hear from more people. "Finger to the wind" might come into play.

    I hope there is no veto, but if you get an update on strategy in a veto situation, just let us know. Even though no individual could influence it, a large number of people might, so let us know IF (there's that word "if" again, it means what it means) it's needed, and if veto overrides are rare, then it's worth looking into any help possible and making absolutely sure about this. Thanks again to you and the team for all the hard work! I will continue to follow the progress with hope and interest. I want this to win.

  17. #17
    Regular Member HighValueWarrior's Avatar
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    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Personal attack
    Last edited by John Pierce; 06-06-2013 at 11:41 AM.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
    Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

    "Where liberty dwells, there is my country."

    Benjamin Franklin
    The First American

  18. #18
    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    For the Veto over ride a large number can indeed make a difference, we are just on hold for now there is time to get organized for a mass campaign if needed.

    Again, there was no organization behind the open carry billthat became an amendment to HB436, and that is just fine.
    If there is a need for a veto over ride and soem pro-2A group wants to put out a call for action, no problem, we'll need all the help we can get.
    If they say they sponsored, promoted or developed any part of 436's OC amendment - Nail 'em, they didn't do squat!
    Just sit back and wait.... The decision of the Governor will appear (Or better yet won't appear) here:
    http://governor.mo.gov/actions/


    Quote Originally Posted by HP995 View Post
    Gunner, I was about to submit this:



    before I saw your new post.

    OK, thanks for posting the update from powers that be. Since "suggesting the voice of the people to call upon their Governor to act may still be a good idea" then I guess I was correct in mentioning NAGR's interest. (No bias for or against them, if NRA or any other group had promoted it, I would have mentioned them too.) However, personally I would do a phone call rather than an email or petition. I think talking to a staffer could have more personal impact. I could be wrong. All those options are available. It might not hurt for the gov to hear from more people. "Finger to the wind" might come into play.

    I hope there is no veto, but if you get an update on strategy in a veto situation, just let us know. Even though no individual could influence it, a large number of people might, so let us know IF (there's that word "if" again, it means what it means) it's needed, and if veto overrides are rare, then it's worth looking into any help possible and making absolutely sure about this. Thanks again to you and the team for all the hard work! I will continue to follow the progress with hope and interest. I want this to win.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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