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Thread: Police Shoot & Kill Grandfather While Responding To Burglary Call

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    Police Shoot & Kill Grandfather While Responding To Burglary Call

    "Those close to the family say the victim lived nearby and heard his neighbor’s burglar alarm. Neighbor Jerry Wayne Waller then apparently went outside to see what was going on. The 72-year-old man didn’t even make it to the house across the street before he was shot. He died on his own property." “We heard five shots,” Haskin recalled. They were just rapid fire one after the other.”
    http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/05/28/p...burglary-call/
    http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/05/28/p...glary-suspect/
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    "Those close to the family say the victim lived nearby and heard his neighbor’s burglar alarm. Neighbor Jerry Wayne Waller then apparently went outside to see what was going on. The 72-year-old man didn’t even make it to the house across the street before he was shot. He died on his own property." “We heard five shots,” Haskin recalled. They were just rapid fire one after the other.”
    http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/05/28/p...burglary-call/
    http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/05/28/p...glary-suspect/
    After the shooting Haskin said, “The police officers were sobbing uncontrollably and very distraught.”
    "Is that's proper police procedure. Shoot the innocent elderly, and cry about it?"
    CBS 11 has learned that the two officers involved were not hurt and
    Oh, -that's- a relief.

    Empathy sent for the man's family.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    "The elderly man, who was armed at the time, was shot and killed in his own driveway by police responding to a burglary call. “We heard five shots,” Haskin recalled. They were just rapid fire one after the other.”

    Speaking on the incident Fort Worth police Cpl. Tracey Knight said, “Officers felt threatened by the man with the handgun and he was shot.”
    http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/05/28/p...burglary-call/

    Much too early, too little information, to make any judgements. - I'll wait.

    Will NOT allow this thread to become LEO bashing.
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    that scary

    the officers are quick to pull and shoot on anyone its seems.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freedomwriter View Post
    the officers are quick to pull and shoot on anyone its seems.
    We do not know the circumstances. He may have had the gun in his hand and came in close proximity to the officers very suddenly.

    Jumping to conclusions in a case like this is foolish at best.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    We do not know the circumstances. He may have had the gun in his hand and came in close proximity to the officers very suddenly.

    Jumping to conclusions in a case like this is foolish at best.
    I hold off on the police for now until we know more, but folks, your firearm is for YOUR safety and your families. As much as some of you want to help others sometimes minding your own business is more prudent. OTH police know that at least the population is armed, they should use a tad more caution before shooting. After all these cases are not a yearly, monthly, or even weekly occurrence. They appear to be shooting and killing innocent law abiding citizens on a daily basis, it does not even matter if they are armed or not. As much as I do not want more government, every single case of a police officer shooting should be investigated by the FBI, with the same scrutiny or more that they use on political grass roots groups. It would be a better more civil investment of our tax dollars.

    Keep in mind also more people are losing their life these days to police than terrorists.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    We do not know the circumstances. He may have had the gun in his hand and came in close proximity to the officers very suddenly.

    Jumping to conclusions in a case like this is foolish at best.
    I agree we should assess the situation and not fire off our thoughts until we get the facts, this is how people get hurt or killed.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    I agree we should assess the situation and not fire off our thoughts until we get the facts, this is how people get hurt or killed.
    I see what you did there. Brilliant.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Can one carry on their own land? If so, then the shooting cannot be justified.

    I think all the facts needed to decide the appropriateness have been provided.

    Hardly LEO bashing ...

    Cops cannot just shoot anyone who carries a gun, more must be present. Who thinks the 72 yr old pointed the gun at the cops? That's exactly what the cops will say....

    The cops should be charged with 2nd degree murder IMO. They should be drug tested (but they won't be, will they?).

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Can one carry on their own land? If so, then the shooting cannot be justified.

    I think all the facts needed to decide the appropriateness have been provided.

    Hardly LEO bashing ...

    Cops cannot just shoot anyone who carries a gun, more must be present. Who thinks the 72 yr old pointed the gun at the cops? That's exactly what the cops will say....

    The cops should be charged with 2nd degree murder IMO. They should be drug tested (but they won't be, will they?).
    You presume to know what happened.

    You don't.

    You pour gasoline on the flame with no more knowledge than anyone else here - to me that is as bad as LEO bashing and irresponsible.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Lesson: don't ever call the police, unless you've already shot all the bad guys. Then, don't be caught holding your gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    I agree we should assess the situation and not fire off our thoughts until we get the facts, this is how people get hurt or killed.
    No no, poster safety requires that we post immediately and as many times as possible, regardless of the circumstances.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Lesson: don't ever call the police, unless you've already shot all the bad guys. Then, don't be caught holding your gun.



    No no, poster safety requires that we post immediately and as many times as possible, regardless of the circumstances.
    This is why I carry a "high capacity" case of comments so I can post quicker.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    This is why I carry a "high capacity" case of comments so I can post quicker.
    Good thinking. As you can tell from my post count, I am a big fan of the "spray and pray" approach.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Good thinking. As you can tell from my post count, I am a big fan of the "spray and pray" approach.
    You win I surrender....lol

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    "The elderly man, who was armed at the time, was shot and killed in his own driveway by police responding to a burglary call. “We heard five shots,” Haskin recalled. They were just rapid fire one after the other.”

    Speaking on the incident Fort Worth police Cpl. Tracey Knight said, “Officers felt threatened by the man with the handgun and he was shot.”
    http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/05/28/p...burglary-call/

    Much too early, too little information, to make any judgements. - I'll wait.

    Will NOT allow this thread to become LEO bashing.
    I agree. I will limit my commentary to the two officers reported in the story.

    After the shooting Haskin said, “The police officers were sobbing uncontrollably and very distraught."
    Sobbing uncontrollably.......hmmm, interesting description of those two officer's reaction to their own acts.

    Speaking on the incident Fort Worth police Cpl. Tracey Knight said, “Officers felt threatened by the man with the handgun and he was shot.”
    Well, there ya go, whip out the "felt threatened" card and all things are mostly forgiven. Or, more easily framed to place those two officers in the best possible public relations light and the decedent in a light that can be better managed as the need requires.

    Will policy violations be discovered in this tragic incident and then training will be conducted to mitigate further misunderstandings?

    And finally, a view from the top:
    Fort Worth Police Chief Jeff Halstead released the following statement regarding the shooting:


    “The events that took place the early morning hours on May 28th will require a significant amount of investigative effort; however, we remain committed to working with our residents and making this process efficient and transparent.


    I ask for your patience, your understanding, and most importantly, your prayers for all involved.”
    Yeeaah.....riiggght. I will be most interested in the findings of a investigation of these two cops by their fellow cops.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You presume to know what happened.

    You don't.

    You pour gasoline on the flame with no more knowledge than anyone else here - to me that is as bad as LEO bashing and irresponsible.
    The news article provided is very simple ... and believable. I need not wait for court testimony under oath to decide if the facts are sufficient to come to a conclusion, right?

    Otherwise, everyone speaking out when non-testimonial statements and information have not been stated in court in respect to news articles should not provide an opinion at all in other threads...

    Hardly LEO bashing ... bashing specific LEOs, sure...but that is not the rule .. rule is generalized LEO bashing is not good.

    I would like to know if the cops in this case have been drug tested though ... anyone know?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I hold off on the police for now until we know more, but folks, your firearm is for YOUR safety and your families. As much as some of you want to help others sometimes minding your own business is more prudent. OTH police know that at least the population is armed, they should use a tad more caution before shooting. After all these cases are not a yearly, monthly, or even weekly occurrence. They appear to be shooting and killing innocent law abiding citizens on a daily basis, it does not even matter if they are armed or not. As much as I do not want more government, every single case of a police officer shooting should be investigated by the FBI, with the same scrutiny or more that they use on political grass roots groups. It would be a better more civil investment of our tax dollars.

    Keep in mind also more people are losing their life these days to police than terrorists.
    Your premise is that Mr. Waller was armed for the purposes of "fighting crime." It is possible that Mr. Waller was armed for his own protection in the event he was confronted by the alleged burglars.

    I would be armed for my own protection and not for the purposes of doing police work if my neighbors "alarm" system activated. I would be a well armed witness and report to LE.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Your premise is that Mr. Waller was armed for the purposes of "fighting crime." It is possible that Mr. Waller was armed for his own protection in the event he was confronted by the alleged burglars.

    I would be armed for my own protection and not for the purposes of doing police work if my neighbors "alarm" system activated. I would be a well armed witness and report to LE.
    IMO Mr. Waller would have been wiser to be vigilant in his home and protected his family in his home. In the case of a crime NOT in my home, my responsibilities are to my family, and was so even when I was a LEO. What he did was not illegal, AFAIK, just not wise. Especially considering that people across the country have been killed by well meaning police officers, and a few not so well meaning. Maybe he did not realize a responding police officer might shoot him if he saw him with a gun.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    IMO Mr. Waller would have been wiser to be vigilant in his home and protected his family in his home. In the case of a crime NOT in my home, my responsibilities are to my family, and was so even when I was a LEO. What he did was not illegal, AFAIK, just not wise. Especially considering that people across the country have been killed by well meaning police officers, and a few not so well meaning. Maybe he did not realize a responding police officer might shoot him if he saw him with a gun.
    Yea and he could have been hit by a freak meteor by stepping outside. I think a rational person would think that a police officer would have all the facts and not use deadly force before employing it. We are taught a model called "use of force" for a reason, this is what prevents everyone with a gun from being plowed down. I don't know the fact is this case so I will leave it at that but we shouldn't be blaming a innocent victim for patroling his property to protect his family while the neighbors alarm is going off. For all we know he didn't even know that the cops were there yet.

  20. #20
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    Yea and he could have been hit by a freak meteor by stepping outside. I think a rational person would think that a police officer would have all the facts and not use deadly force before employing it. We are taught a model called "use of force" for a reason, this is what prevents everyone with a gun from being plowed down. I don't know the fact is this case so I will leave it at that but we shouldn't be blaming a innocent victim for patroling his property to protect his family while the neighbors alarm is going off. For all we know he didn't even know that the cops were there yet.
    I'm not blaming him at all, but the fact is he is dead. Nothing will change that, and in such instances staying alive, IMO, is very important. These instances are becoming all to common, but he may not have been aware of them. We know because we follow them, he should not have died, period.

    I have had this discussion with my wife and carrying, I have told her never touch, or hold your gun around a police officer, even if they tell you to. With a burglar alarm blaring it would be a good guess the police were coming.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    IMO Mr. Waller would have been wiser to be vigilant in his home and protected his family in his home. In the case of a crime NOT in my home, my responsibilities are to my family, and was so even when I was a LEO. What he did was not illegal, AFAIK, just not wise. Especially considering that people across the country have been killed by well meaning police officers, and a few not so well meaning. Maybe he did not realize a responding police officer might shoot him if he saw him with a gun.
    The fact that he was armed is based on police reports after shots were fired. The claim of Mr. Waller posing a threat is also made after he was shot. We only have those two cop's word that they saw a gun which prompted one of them to shoot Mr. Waller.

    Secondly, Mr. Waller may have had made a agreement with the neighbors to "look after my place" and thus felt compelled to "investigate" the alarm. Mr. Waller being on his own property is irrelevant to this police shooting. How could the cops know that Mr. Waller was on his own property. That little tidbit aggravates the situation needlessly and should be ignored.

    More information is needed. I await the official results of the those two cops acts as determined by their fellow cops.

    What is odd to me is that if only one cop shot why are both cops on leave? The names of the cops must be released as soon as possible.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Police Shoot & Kill Grandfather While Responding To Burglary Call

    Having been on the opposite side of a law abiding citizen with a gun in hand while responding to a 911 hang up call, that kind of stuff can get really hairy really quick. Though my encounter ended well for all involved, it took a minute for certain anatomical parts of me to descend from inside my chest. That was face to face, 0-60 in less than a second type situation. You can replay it in your head time after time, but it just becomes more unsettling.

    It's a crappy situation to put it mildly. I will wait for more details before weighing in on it. I'm sure the shoot team is up to its eyeballs in work.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider116 View Post
    Having been on the opposite side of a law abiding citizen with a gun in hand while responding to a 911 hang up call, that kind of stuff can get really hairy really quick. Though my encounter ended well for all involved, it took a minute for certain anatomical parts of me to descend from inside my chest. That was face to face, 0-60 in less than a second type situation. You can replay it in your head time after time, but it just becomes more unsettling.

    It's a crappy situation to put it mildly. I will wait for more details before weighing in on it. I'm sure the shoot team is up to its eyeballs in work.
    Yes but your LAC isn't in a body bag so you did something right. I'm still under the impression that some people shouldn't be LE or have the stones to control their emotions. We know you do even if you carry them in your chest once in a while.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ...The claim of Mr. Waller posing a threat is also made after he was shot. ....
    "Mr. Waller posing a threat" and "officers felt threatened" (from Post #3) are two very different things. Which was it?
    Last edited by MAC702; 05-29-2013 at 01:50 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Not to justify what happened, but for my own sake...

    I always have my (belt) holster attached to a pair of pants, even if I'm not wearing them (e.g. while I sleep or shower or whatever). I have a hard time imagining calling the police and waiting for them outside without taking the opportunity to put on some pants, and therefore my holster. At this point it seems absurdly obvious to holster before the police come tearing in. And, in their defense, I will say I have a much harder time imagining them shooting the homeowner because of a holstered firearm.

    Another + to the convenience of EDOC.

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