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Thread: Reno park searches

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    Reno park searches

    http://www.rgj.com/article/20130526/...onstitutional-

    Chris Corbett of Reno brought a bag with him to the Reno River Festival event earlier this month in downtown’s Wingfield Park.


    At an entrance, a security guard asked to search his bag. Corbett said no and that this was a violation of his Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable searches.


    The guard basically said tough luck.


    Corbett told Fact Checker he went to some nearby Reno police officers to seek their help entering the park and that they, too, said basically, “Be searched or go home.”

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    Reno park searches

    My coworker was also not permitted to OC at this event.

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    Walk past the guard.

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    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    I agree with Yard Sale, let them try to deny you access to a public park for a constitutionally protected activity, such as bearing arms. This whole notion of a public place that suddenly becoms private just because someone decided to pay a huge fee to rope it off for the day doesn't sit well with me. If I can walk through a public park with my firearm one day, but the next I cant becuase some group decided to setup shop there, now we have a serious problem.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I do not know what is legal is this regard, but it does make sense to me that SOME public property can be short-term leased to a private event and that the private party responsible has full control as if it is their property for the time leased.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Re: Reno park searches

    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I do not know what is legal is this regard, but it does make sense to me that SOME public property can be short-term leased to a private event and that the private party responsible has full control as if it is their property for the time leased.
    This.

    Wasn't there an issue similar to this in LV last year with some kind of food truck festival that was held on private property (parking lot) that extended onto public property? Don't remember the outcome on that one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada carrier View Post
    I agree with Yard Sale, let them try to deny you access to a public park for a constitutionally protected activity, such as bearing arms. This whole notion of a public place that suddenly becoms private just because someone decided to pay a huge fee to rope it off for the day doesn't sit well with me. If I can walk through a public park with my firearm one day, but the next I cant becuase some group decided to setup shop there, now we have a serious problem.
    If the public location has been temporarily 'taken' through proper lease arrangement or such, it is not likely to be considered 'public' for the duration of the lease. Basically, it 'becomes' a private location that would be legally treated as if it were a business location.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member DooFster's Avatar
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    Reno park searches

    Quote Originally Posted by b0neZ View Post
    This.

    Wasn't there an issue similar to this in LV last year with some kind of food truck festival that was held on private property (parking lot) that extended onto public property? Don't remember the outcome on that one.
    They were legit and showed us the NRS stating that since they were privatizing the public area in a temporary way, we weren't allowed to have weapons on us. I was one of the folks kicked off the grounds even after LVMPD was called.
    IT is better to have a gun on you and NOT need it, than to need a gun and NOT have it on you...

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    Reno park searches

    Riddle me this then, my coworker said the reason given for not being allowed to open carry was purely insurance reasons, and yet the place was crawling with RPD(armed) does insurance view weapons in a different light if its an officer involved in an incident?

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Yes, of course. They have qualified immunity and you don't. They can't be sued and you can (in many circumstances.)

    That said, there are plenty of insurance policies available that don't care. To blame insurance is a lie. And it's an easy scapegoat to claim even if it isn't the real reason anyway; they just want to stop talking to you and make you go away.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoDavyGo View Post
    Riddle me this then, my coworker said the reason given for not being allowed to open carry was purely insurance reasons, and yet the place was crawling with RPD(armed) does insurance view weapons in a different light if its an officer involved in an incident?
    If the cops are in uniform, the liability is covered by the city, not by the organizers.

    If the park (or part of the park) had been rented for an event, the renters have the right of access control, just like if they rented private property.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    If the cops are in uniform, the liability is covered by the city, not by the organizers.

    If the park (or part of the park) had been rented for an event, the renters have the right of access control, just like if they rented private property.

    To me this all seems like speculation. Can anyone provide an NRS that says once someone buys a permit to host an event on public lands it becomes private for the duration of the permit? I think that unless there is an NRS that specifically says this then it is always public land and the event organizers can do nothing about OC. If anyone can "Rent" public space and make it private then I may go get a permit for Virginia St. downtown and restrict access just because for that time period it is "My" land.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I do not know what is legal is this regard, but it does make sense to me that SOME public property can be short-term leased to a private event and that the private party responsible has full control as if it is their property for the time leased.
    Does this mean they can mine it and drill for oil since it is theirs for the day? Can we rent out the white house to someone else and kick the current residence out? I always wanted to rent the state of Alaska and kick everyone out for a private hunting trip....were is the line? Oh wait everyone in Washington is for rent or sale why shouldn't America.

    Sorry Sarcasim button is stuck again.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by renoglock22 View Post
    To me this all seems like speculation. Can anyone provide an NRS that says once someone buys a permit to host an event on public lands it becomes private for the duration of the permit? I think that unless there is an NRS that specifically says this then it is always public land and the event organizers can do nothing about OC. If anyone can "Rent" public space and make it private then I may go get a permit for Virginia St. downtown and restrict access just because for that time period it is "My" land.
    RMC 5.13 regulates events, privileged activities, and closed conventions.

    I worked downtown for a while, and the city does permit downtown out as a privileged event. Vehicle traffic is blocked off, and organizers (the participating casinos) are responsible for security even though RPD is present. No pedestrian traffic is prohibited, but cyclists are told by security to walk through the event. If they refuse, security doesn't detain and RPD doesn't intervene. Trespassing someone from a city street could have some serious legal complications, seeing as how there are other businesses downtown (tattoo shops, pawn shops, souvenir shops, etc) that pedestrians could be owners or patrons of.

    Wingfield park, however, could possibly host be a privileged event with closed convention authority capable of trespassing someone for the duration of the event, assuming there is no private property that is only accessible by walking through the event.

    I am just guessing though, I ain't no lawyer

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    Quote Originally Posted by renoglock22 View Post
    To me this all seems like speculation. Can anyone provide an NRS that says once someone buys a permit to host an event on public lands it becomes private for the duration of the permit?
    There's a difference between buying a permit and renting space.

    A permit lets you do something at a particular place.

    Rental gives you AUTHORITY over that place. One of the rights of rental is access control, which is why you're allowed to put a lock on an apartment door, even though ownership is not transferred.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    There's a difference between buying a permit and renting space.

    A permit lets you do something at a particular place.

    Rental gives you AUTHORITY over that place. One of the rights of rental is access control, which is why you're allowed to put a lock on an apartment door, even though ownership is not transferred.

    So if you are just getting a permit to use the space then the organizers cannot restrict access so not letting people OC at the river festival was illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    Does this mean they can mine it and drill for oil since it is theirs for the day? Can we rent out the white house to someone else and kick the current residence out? I always wanted to rent the state of Alaska and kick everyone out for a private hunting trip....were is the line? Oh wait everyone in Washington is for rent or sale why shouldn't America.

    Sorry Sarcasim button is stuck again.....
    Well, if you get those purposes on the lease, yes. I expect the price will be higher.
    Last edited by MAC702; 06-05-2013 at 12:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by renoglock22 View Post
    So if you are just getting a permit to use the space then the organizers cannot restrict access so not letting people OC at the river festival was illegal.
    Do you know for a fact that they only had a permit, and had not been given access control?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    Do you know for a fact that they only had a permit, and had not been given access control?

    I just searched the NRS and the Reno Municipal Code and found nothing saying that the event organizers with a permit to use public space can control access other than someone causing a disturbance.

    NRS 268.4298

    RMC CHAPTER 5.13. SPECIAL EVENTS AND SPECIAL ACTIVITIES


    According to this it says nothing about ability to restrict access because of a permit therefore it seems that it is still public property and one cannot be denied access solely for OC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by renoglock22 View Post
    I just searched the NRS and the Reno Municipal Code and found nothing saying that the event organizers with a permit to use public space can control access other than someone causing a disturbance.
    This is only of interest if they had nothing more than a permit to use public space, which is a question yet unanswered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    This is only of interest if they had nothing more than a permit to use public space, which is a question yet unanswered.


    From what I read in these ordinances a permit was all they could get. The NRS does mention leasing public property but that is on a monthly basis for long term. Whatever organization had the permit still had no right to restrict access as a special events permit does not give that authority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by renoglock22 View Post
    From what I read in these ordinances a permit was all they could get. The NRS does mention leasing public property but that is on a monthly basis for long term. Whatever organization had the permit still had no right to restrict access as a special events permit does not give that authority.
    You're making a big leap to your conclusion.

    If a private group was given access control, they can tell you no guns. It's as simple as that.

    Before you worry too much more about it, find out if IN THIS SPECIFIC INSTANCE they were granted access control. Until you know this, you don't know anything of value about the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    You're making a big leap to your conclusion.

    If a private group was given access control, they can tell you no guns. It's as simple as that.

    Before you worry too much more about it, find out if IN THIS SPECIFIC INSTANCE they were granted access control. Until you know this, you don't know anything of value about the situation.

    I just e-mailed the Special events manager asking about access control so we can get an answer straight from the source. I will post the reply when I get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by renoglock22 View Post
    I just e-mailed the Special events manager asking about access control so we can get an answer straight from the source. I will post the reply when I get it.
    It would also be good to know who gave them access control and under what authority provided they actually had it. They may have been told they could control access but without legal standing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by renoglock22 View Post
    I just e-mailed the Special events manager asking about access control so we can get an answer straight from the source. I will post the reply when I get it.
    Good, and I agree with DW that they may have just THOUGHT they had it -- or even just decided to act as though they did.

    However, if there were RPD guys in uniform who agree with them, chances are pretty good they had it.

    If they DIDN'T have it, that would be a good thing to bring before the City Council, to have them make sure that future groups are informed about the law.

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