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Thread: Time to put the open carry in NY issue to bed...

  1. #1
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    Time to put the open carry in NY issue to bed...

    Everything is legal, until there is a law making it illegal. Read that statement again...There is NO LAW in the NY penal code stating that if you openly carry your weapon, you are guilty of a ______________. (Enter your text here) Open carry is not a common practice in NY due to the quagmire of laws regarding guns, hence creating fear with people who own guns. They fear being arrested, having their permits revoked, or spending tons of money staying out of jail. Police in NY have the ability to arrest you for whatever they come up with, hell they can even make stuff up and arrest you. But that doesn't mean its right or that the charges will be prosecuted or they will stick in court. Also, I'm sure with all the liberal left wing paranoid soccer mom's in NY, if you do open carry, you most likely will have a visit from your local police department. What can they arrest you for? Menacing, NO read the penal law on menacing. Violating the terms of your permit, I don't even know what that means, I don't believe that is an arrestable offense if it is an offense. Disorderly conduct, perhaps if you intended to put people in fear for their lives or caused mass panic, but proving intent is not easy. Bottom line is, it is not illegal to open carry in NY! Penal code section 400.0 (f) ...to have and carry concealed, TO HAVE AND carry concealed. In NY prior to the issuance of concealed weapons permits, it was ILLEGAL to conceal ANY weapon. When conceal carry was allowed, that old law didn't magically disapear, it just enabled permit holders to now begin to conceal their weapons, legally. Also, the 2nd amendment of the US constitution says..."to keep and BARE arms". Look up the word BARE in that context. The LEO's and law makers play on our fears of the unknown and radically complex and confusing penal laws to keep us guessing and afraid of arrest, right or wrong.

    Someone, prove me wrong...case law, permit revoked for open carry or arrest for open carry. There is no such thing.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    You had my interest, untill you wrote,
    "keep and "BARE" arms"...
    I am sure you can figure this out for your self...
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Time to put the open carry in NY issue to bed...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    You had my interest, untill you wrote,
    "keep and "BARE" arms"...
    I am sure you can figure this out for your self...
    I thought exactly the same thing...guess he didn't actually look up the word "BARE" before posting.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    With NYS open carry laws

    NYS is two different place and two different law. NYC: It is unlawful for a person to carry a rifle or shotgun on about his person or in a vehicle without a permit and certificate of registration for such rifle or shotgun. A rifle or shotgun carried in a vehicle must be unloaded and not readily accessible. Rifles and shotguns carried in an automobile trunk need not be cased, but they must be unloaded. It is unlawful to possess or carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in public. Unloaded shotguns or rifles carried or possessed in public must be completely enclosed or contained in a non-transparent case. May I purchase an “assault weapon” now that the federal assault weapons ban has expired? No, both NYS law and the NYC Administrative Code prohibit ownership of assault weapons. Handgun NYC permit types (if you do not have it you can not carry it there) CARRY BUSINESS,LIMITED CARRY BUSINESS,SPECIAL CARRY,CARRY GUARD, All of NYS It is unlawful to possess 20 or more firearms as defined under NY law outside one’s home.

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    Part 2 of NYS open carry laws

    NYC dosn't reckons an state pistol permit or long guns permit included NYS permit at all. Upstate has a premises only that means home and business and carry concealed permits. But I wouldn't do it with premises only permit on the street. Long guns no permit is need to buy or possess just age and back round check the is no law that say you can or can't but school zones and where alcohol is sole is still a no no. Must be unloaded in a vehicle to move it. But all the main court cases posted around say you can. With no law that say you can or not but before you go out know your rights so when the police come when you are walk with your gun. Ask you for identification you have the right to say no your walking its not need. Pistol permit is need when they ask for it. Oh my favorite is I'am being detained or I'am free to go. Oh to the person that started this post walk around down town albany with long gun frist and let us know.

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    There are at least 5 meanings for the word "bare", take your pick, yes they are still debatable. But the bottom line is, in NYS there is NO law stating how you MUST carry a handgun. Also, I was refering to a handgun and not a long gun, but there is no law on carrying a long gun down the street either. I understand that "in this day and age where mass shootings are on everyones minds", but making people feel safe and snuggly doesn't override my rights. It is not illegal or a crime if someone feels nervous, but it is illegal to trample my right to carry a handgun, because the police think they have to know what I am "up to". Walking down the streets of Albany with an unloaded rifle may or may not be legal, I don't know the rules on that in Albany, but where I live, you may get some folks attention and maybe a visit from the police, but they won't trample your rights like NYC. Correct me if I'm wrong, NYC is a part of NYS, correct. And state laws encompass all cities within the state. Why does NYC think it can make their own laws?

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    To response to homerfire232 NYS open carry laws

    With you frist post of frist line Everything is legal, until there is a law making it illegal. Read that statement again...There is NO LAW in the NY penal code stating that if you openly carry your weapon, you are guilty of _______. Just read the NYC part that is from the NYPD take that up with them. So in NYC yes in is a crime without there permits ect. See to have a laugh some of the wacky laws they have for NYC. But how they can get different laws then the state is maybe New York City Charter,City ordinances,Executive Orders ect. I don't know the answer to that but they do it any way. Their are 2 different permits in upstate ny for handguns. Premises only a. Have and possess in a dwelling by a homeowner ONLY b. Have and possess in one place of business by a merchant or storekeeper ONLY. Concealed permits 3. Carry Concealed/Employment with regard to employment "PROPER CAUSE EXISTS" then you get in "UNRESTRICTED" "RESTRICTED" as well. So look at what you have on your permit as to what you can do.

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    Part 2 of response to homerfire232 NYS open carry laws

    I'am not say your wong but you need to look at NYS as having 2 different sets of laws of the hole state. But upstate it mainly dealing with county and juges over handguns. Where the gray area is with long guns there is no law on or for long guns open carry or loaded or unload with walking around with it (but veichels and NYC) that's why I put it out their. Handguns open carry would be with the way the laws are CARRY CONCEALED "UNRESTRICTED" permit to even think about trying it in my mind. But its up to juges and courts to make the ruling on it. But long guns was my hole point of this post. This not legal advice with any of my post. Why I have to post 2 times alot is being on my PS3.

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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerfire232 View Post
    There are at least 5 meanings for the word "bare", take your pick, yes they are still debatable.

    bare 1 (bâr)
    adj. bar·er, bar·est
    1. Lacking the usual or appropriate covering or clothing; naked: a bare arm.
    2. Exposed to view; undisguised: bare fangs.
    3. Lacking the usual furnishings, equipment, or decoration: bare walls.
    4. Having no addition, adornment, or qualification: the bare facts. See Synonyms at empty.
    5. Just sufficient; mere: the bare necessities.
    6. Obsolete Bareheaded.

    Which one did you pick?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    bare 1 (bâr)
    adj. bar·er, bar·est
    1. Lacking the usual or appropriate covering or clothing; naked: a bare arm.
    2. Exposed to view; undisguised: bare fangs.
    3. Lacking the usual furnishings, equipment, or decoration: bare walls.
    4. Having no addition, adornment, or qualification: the bare facts. See Synonyms at empty.
    5. Just sufficient; mere: the bare necessities.
    6. Obsolete Bareheaded.

    Which one did you pick?
    2. Exposed to view; undisguised - fits the "open" carry subject.

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    Problem is, you're using the wrong word and therefore the any definition of the wrong word would is also wrong.


    It's the "Right to keep and bear arms" not ...."bare arms".

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    New information found over this problem

    This dealing with up state ny New York Penal - Article 265 - § 265.01 Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree you really need to read this. With what say it dose not say a yes or no to open carry but it well come down to is interpretation of the law for hand gun or long gun. I would not do it at all even thought police,armed car personal, and military do it even with an unrestricted NYS permit in NYS. This state is very anti firearms with the nys safe act with everthing else on the books now. The really funny thing is the right to bare arms is not in NYS constitution but §1.Defense; militia is there what do they use harsh language. What it well come down to is the courts judges that who you have talk to. But their is no law or ordinance for or against open carry that I can find. New York Penal - Article 265 - § 265.01 Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree is all I can find or find something making it illegal other then this.

  13. #13
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mack Patterson View Post
    This dealing with up state ny New York Penal - Article 265 - § 265.01 Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree you really need to read this. With what say it dose not say a yes or no to open carry but it well come down to is interpretation of the law for hand gun or long gun. I would not do it at all even thought police,armed car personal, and military do it even with an unrestricted NYS permit in NYS. This state is very anti firearms with the nys safe act with everthing else on the books now. The really funny thing is the right to bare arms is not in NYS constitution but §1.Defense; militia is there what do they use harsh language. What it well come down to is the courts judges that who you have talk to. But their is no law or ordinance for or against open carry that I can find. New York Penal - Article 265 - § 265.01 Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree is all I can find or find something making it illegal other then this.
    Hej Mack!

    While I agree with you that it is legal to OC in NYS, I must point out the very first line in PL 265.20:
    § 265.20 Exemptions.
    a. Sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05, 265.10, 265.11,
    265.12, 265.13, 265.15 and 270.05 shall not apply to:


    then 265.20(2)

    * 3. Possession of a pistol or revolver by a person to whom a license
    therefor has been issued as provided under section 400.00 or 400.01 of
    this chapter; provided, that such a license shall not preclude a
    conviction for the offense defined in subdivision three of section
    265.01 of this article.


    If you have a firearm ("firearm" in NYS is a concealable weapon, Pistol/revolver/SBR/SBS) in NYS, You must have a permit to possess (even in your own home) issued under PL 400.00 or 400.01. With that permit, PL 265 no longer applies and does not need to be considered.

    However: PL 400.00(2)(f) (normal "carry" permit) has confused some with it's wording. My answer to those, look at your permit, nowhere on it is the word "Concealed" on it. It is a permit to possess and carry on your person. The wording in (2)(f) only states you may carry concealed, it does NOT say you MUST carry concealed.

    You are correct, there is no specific LAW (PL) that states you may not carry you pistol openly, assuming you can possess it legally. (That is, you have a permit issued under PL 400.00 or 400.01 to possess and carry that concealable weapon.)

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