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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    idiot gun carrier @ Disney

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/30...s-gun-on-ride/

    A Walt Disney World patron on a ride with her grandson found a loaded gun on her seat...
    The gun's owner told authorities he discovered his gun was missing several minutes after leaving the ride

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    I can't blame him, I about Swiss cheesed the Yetti on Matterhorn Mountain myself, stupid Yetti shouldn't sneak up on people like that, so what the Yetti scares the hell out of this guy, he draws down and forgets to re-holster.....



    See if that guy ambushed me i might forget my gun on the coaster too...
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Disney does not allow weapons of any kind.

    There are no metal detectors and no pat-downs.

    So I see three kinds of people carrying in to the park.

    1. Folks who don't know (like the titular idiot).
    2. Folks who think that their right to carry trumps the property owner's rights.
    3. Criminals.

    So, when you go to Disney, the only people carrying will be idiots, folks who don't respect your rights, and criminals. Are those the only people Disney wants armed in their parks?

    *shudder*

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    "Please keep your guns with you at all times" ... "The moose outside should have told you so"

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Disney does not allow weapons of any kind.

    There are no metal detectors and no pat-downs.

    So I see three kinds of people carrying in to the park.

    1. Folks who don't know (like the titular idiot).
    2. Folks who think that their right to carry trumps the property owner's rights.
    3. Criminals.

    So, when you go to Disney, the only people carrying will be idiots, folks who don't respect your rights, and criminals. Are those the only people Disney wants armed in their parks?

    *shudder*
    or people who do know, and do respect property, but think what 'ol Mickey doesn't know won't hurt him....
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    or people who do know, and do respect property, but think what 'ol Mickey doesn't know won't hurt him....

    They can "claim" all they want to respect property rights, but ignoring stated wishes is, to me, not respect.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    They can "claim" all they want to respect property rights, but ignoring stated wishes is, to me, not respect.
    Actually I think Disney World is subject to Florida preemption. this is because Walt Disney World is given the legal status of a quasi municipal district in Florida (Reedy Creek Improvement district), and is a district of Lake Buena Vista, an incorporated city with a population of 10 people, all employees of WDW. A city and district created just so Disney could alter property tax and pay tax purely into their own parks AND deny business licenses to keep competitors and non disney vendors away from the resort. in order to meet laws requiring cities to provide 911 service they have contract sheriff offices and fire department stations on the park itself. etc etc etc. so WDW is not purely "private property" it's "public property" owned by disney, leased to disney....

    So since this is all a municipal unit of government, they have the restrictions of a municipal government, including preemption.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 05-31-2013 at 12:46 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Re: idiot gun carrier @ Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post

    So since this is all a municipal unit of government, they have the restrictions of a municipal government, including preemption.
    Well, this is an interesting topic. I personally wouldn't want to go up against Mickey in court, those pockets are way too deep. I wonder how their policy reads. I'm going to look into this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    They can "claim" all they want to respect property rights, but ignoring stated wishes is, to me, not respect.
    As long as I'm in a state where policies and signs have no legal weight, I carry when and where I want to. I don't even look for signs because they are of no importance. I leave when asked to by the owner or manager, and not a second before.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADobbs1989 View Post
    As long as I'm in a state where policies and signs have no legal weight, I carry when and where I want to. I don't even look for signs because they are of no importance. I leave when asked to by the owner or manager, and not a second before.
    And you make things that much more difficult for the rest of us.

    You are not going to get someone to change their mind by ignoring their signs and forcing them to tell you to leave, and especially not by making them take the time to get the local law there to hear them tell you to leave.

    What's your address? I'll come over and track my muddy boots through your place, spit on the floor, pee in the corners and drop my candy wrappers all over the place until you ask me to leave, and not a second before. But as soon as you ask me to, I will respect your request.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member MagiK_SacK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    And you make things that much more difficult for the rest of us.

    You are not going to get someone to change their mind by ignoring their signs and forcing them to tell you to leave, and especially not by making them take the time to get the local law there to hear them tell you to leave.

    What's your address? I'll come over and track my muddy boots through your place, spit on the floor, pee in the corners and drop my candy wrappers all over the place until you ask me to leave, and not a second before. But as soon as you ask me to, I will respect your request.

    stay safe.
    +1

    Not only that, but why would you want to give your money to an establishment that chooses not to respect the rights of its patrons? Those signs are a great indicator for me. They don't want me armed, then they don't want my money, simple as that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    And you make things that much more difficult for the rest of us.

    You are not going to get someone to change their mind by ignoring their signs and forcing them to tell you to leave, and especially not by making them take the time to get the local law there to hear them tell you to leave.

    What's your address? I'll come over and track my muddy boots through your place, spit on the floor, pee in the corners and drop my candy wrappers all over the place until you ask me to leave, and not a second before. But as soon as you ask me to, I will respect your request.

    stay safe.
    Who said anything about calling the police? If they do that then it's their own issues, as I will abide by their request to leave. The difference between my home and their business is that their business (at least in my state) is considered a public place "Any place to which the general public has access and a right to resort for business, entertainment or other lawful purpose". My home does not fit that definition, and if you enter my home without my permission to begin with, I have the right to use force, up to and including deadly, to remove you. I follow the law, and that's all that's required of me.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95
    2. Folks who think that their right to carry trumps the property owner's rights.
    3. Criminals.
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle
    or people who do know, and do respect property, but think what 'ol Mickey doesn't know won't hurt him...
    That would be in category #2.
    If you respected property rights, you'd stay out (or disarm).

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle
    Actually I think Disney World is subject to Florida preemption. this is because Walt Disney World is given the legal status of a quasi municipal district in Florida (Reedy Creek Improvement district)
    ...
    So since this is all a municipal unit of government, they have the restrictions of a municipal government, including preemption.
    Holy cow... Actually, there are 2 cities too.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World
    After extensive lobbying, the Government of Florida created the Reedy Creek Improvement District, a special government district that essentially gave the Walt Disney Company the standard powers and autonomy of an incorporated city.
    for Disney World, including EPCOT, to succeed, a special district would have to be formed: the Reedy Creek Improvement District with two [incorporated] cities inside it, Bay Lake and Reedy Creek (now Lake Buena Vista). In addition to the standard powers of an incorporated city, which include the issuance of tax-free bonds, the district would have immunity from any current or future county or state land-use laws...
    The legislation forming the district and the two cities was signed into law ... May 12, 1967. The FL Supreme Court then ruled in 1968 that the district was allowed to issue tax-exempt bonds for public projects within the district despite the sole beneficiary being Walt Disney Productions.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law...ida#Preemption
    Florida law prohibits localities from regulating firearms, other than with regards to zoning laws (i.e., for restricting where gun sellers may locate their businesses)...
    On December 7, 2010... introduced a bill to the Florida Legislature adding penalties for violating the existing preemption statute. It was signed into law ... June 2, 2011. Penalties may include fines, removal from public office, termination of employment and other punishments.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reedy_C...ement_District
    A five-member Board of Supervisors governs the District...
    Arrests and citations are issued by the Florida Highway Patrol along with the Orange County and Osceola County sheriffs deputies who patrol the roads.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Buena_Vista,_Florida
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Lake,_Florida

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    So he's not a criminal, but he's still an idiot.
    Didn't maintain control of his pistol, left it where kids could get to it, and it took "several minutes" before he noticed it missing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    So he's not a criminal, but he's still an idiot.
    Didn't maintain control of his pistol, left it where kids could get to it, and it took "several minutes" before he noticed it missing.
    I never really understood why/how this sort of thing happens frequently across the US. Wally World, school bathrooms, seem to be the norm by both LEO's and "civilians." Recently, a retired deputy working security at Lapeer Elementary School "accidentally" and "monetarily" left his "unloaded" pistol in one of the schools bathrooms. As usual, it was swept under the rug - no harm, no problem. Odd, I can tell if my cell phone and/or keys are not in one of my pants pockets, but yet, folks are having difficulty realizing a compaq or sub-compaq handgun is missing?

    ETA: Spelling
    Last edited by SpringerXDacp; 05-31-2013 at 04:15 PM.

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    idiot gun carrier @ Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    or people who do know, and do respect property, but think what 'ol Mickey doesn't know won't hurt him....
    Sorry, but that is the definition of not respecting the property rights of others.

    I don't respect that lack of respect.


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    idiot gun carrier @ Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by ADobbs1989 View Post
    As long as I'm in a state where policies and signs have no legal weight, I carry when and where I want to. I don't even look for signs because they are of no importance. I leave when asked to by the owner or manager, and not a second before.
    And, again, that is not respecting the property rights of others.

    I don't respect the choice not to respect the rights of others.


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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Sorry, but that is the definition of not respecting the property rights of others.

    I don't respect that lack of respect.


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    it's not private property, it's property of a municipal corporation that includes two incorporated cities. with the capital to build that park and all the roads, bridges etc being financed by municipal bonds issued tax free as a result of the municipal status. because they chose to pretend to be a government agency to build it, I'm only recognizing them as a government agency. hey I didn't choose to buy land in secret with shell companies, incorporate, then issue municipal bonds to build a theme park, they did. so it's public property subject to preemption. maybe Goofy has deep enough pockets to get a court to rule how they want, but under a strict analysis of the law, preemption should apply here.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 05-31-2013 at 05:07 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    And, again, that is not respecting the property rights of others.

    I don't respect the choice not to respect the rights of others.


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    If there is anything in the world I'm not worried about, it's whether or not I have your respect, or the respect of anyone frankly. All that is required for me to live my life without interference is to follow the law. I also don't acknowledge property rights when the property is not strictly private. If someone decides to open a business and invite the general public then they should be the ones respecting the rights of the patrons, not the other way around. Either way, in Alabama, they have the right to make up whatever policies they wish, and I have the right to ignore it until such a time where the owner or manager asks me to leave the property. As long as I follow their verbal requests I am within the law and couldn't care less about anything else.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I am conflicted given the information regarding the status of WDW being private property or something other. I will err on the side of respecting the wishes of the person(s) in control of the property. It is of utmost importance that a citizen respect the rights of a property owner......that is if we OCers desire our rights to carry as we see fit to be respected in return.

    As to losing his pistol.....place the citizen under the lash for five strokes and three days bread and water.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    idiot gun carrier @ Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by ADobbs1989 View Post
    If there is anything in the world I'm not worried about, it's whether or not I have your respect, or the respect of anyone frankly. All that is required for me to live my life without interference is to follow the law. I also don't acknowledge property rights when the property is not strictly private. If someone decides to open a business and invite the general public then they should be the ones respecting the rights of the patrons, not the other way around. Either way, in Alabama, they have the right to make up whatever policies they wish, and I have the right to ignore it until such a time where the owner or manager asks me to leave the property. As long as I follow their verbal requests I am within the law and couldn't care less about anything else.
    But it is OK for you to interfere with the rights of others by carrying on their property against their expressed wishes?

    I am sure that you don't care a whit about what I think on the matter. Not to be tedious, but I don't care that you don't care. I am making this point for the adults out there who care about their own Liberty as well as the Liberty of others. It is they to whom I am writing. You do what you will. I expect it will bite you in the ass someday. That would be poetic justice.


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    idiot gun carrier @ Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I am conflicted given the information regarding the status of WDW being private property or something other. I will err on the side of respecting the wishes of the person(s) in control of the property. It is of utmost importance that a citizen respect the rights of a property owner......that is if we OCers desire our rights to carry as we see fit to be respected in return.

    As to losing his pistol.....place the citizen under the lash for five strokes and three days bread and water.
    I don't know that the information that we are getting is precise, but it the private entity that is WDW has been granted some quasi-governmental status, then that should carry ALL of the responsibilities of being a full governmental entity. If that means that they are pre-empted, then they lose the authority to deny carry.

    I don't recommend carrying there until and unless this has been resolved by a court. Any volunteers to be the test case?


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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Geez Eye, "we don't know if the information is precise"

    I specifically named the government entities, MKE gal posted links to them,

    and Reedy Creek Improvement District even maintains their own website!

    http://www.rcid.org/About.aspx

    The district was created just to support disneyland and to zone any competing businesses to their vendors away from the resort, as well as getting capital by issuing municipal bonds, this is all public record, not just something I came up with.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 05-31-2013 at 09:41 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    idiot gun carrier @ Disney

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Geez Eye, "we don't know if the information is precise"

    I specifically named the government entities, MKE gal posted links to them,

    and Reedy Creek Improvement District even maintains their own website!

    http://www.rcid.org/About.aspx

    The district was created just to support disneyland and to zone any competing businesses to their vendors away from the resort, as well as getting capital by issuing municipal bonds, this is all public record, not just something I came up with.
    I don't know that they are governmental agencies and that the land is governmentally owned. I don't know if they exercise police authority over folks who visit there. This quasi-governmental thing creates a fog that cries out for legal clarity. I don't see any of that yet.

    Someone needs to be arrested for carrying at WDW and refusing to disarm or leave, claiming that this is governmentally-owned property that does not prohibit carry by law. Care to volunteer? Until you do, I lump your claim with those that say you don't need a driver's license, or an automobile registration, or to pay income taxes, or any of those other brash claims about the law that the claimants aren't willing to back up by being the test case.


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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I don't know that they are governmental agencies and that the land is governmentally owned. I don't know if they exercise police authority over folks who visit there. This quasi-governmental thing creates a fog that cries out for legal clarity. I don't see any of that yet.

    Someone needs to be arrested for carrying at WDW and refusing to disarm or leave, claiming that this is governmentally-owned property that does not prohibit carry by law. Care to volunteer? Until you do, I lump your claim with those that say you don't need a driver's license, or an automobile registration, or to pay income taxes, or any of those other brash claims about the law that the claimants aren't willing to back up by being the test case.


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    I have nothing against testing this. I'd only have to be asked to leave.

    the real issue is 1) I live 4000 miles away and 2)
    Florida law, if I remember correctly, bans open carry, meaning i'd have to a recognized license, THEN I'd have to go to WDW, then I'd have to do something stupid to get myself noticed by security and searched, and at that point a DA will argue brandishing... Simple trespass is a misdemeanor, but blowing open your jacket to show off your gun can get you arrested in the Gunshine state, regardless of property arguments...

    I don't argue I don't need a DL, my vehicle is legally registered, I have a Driver's license.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 05-31-2013 at 09:50 PM.
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