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Thread: Good Lawyers in TN?

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    Good Lawyers in TN?

    I had a run in with the 'Law Enforcement' today that left me with one less gun, and I am wondering if there are any good lawyers in TN that deal specifically in gun laws and the like? Any suggestions would be appreciated, because I have to be in court in two months, and if I dont have some sort of legally sound plan, I do not think I will get my firearm back.

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    well what happened

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    Quote Originally Posted by RikuNoganashi View Post
    I had a run in with the 'Law Enforcement' today that left me with one less gun, and I am wondering if there are any good lawyers in TN that deal specifically in gun laws and the like? Any suggestions would be appreciated, because I have to be in court in two months, and if I dont have some sort of legally sound plan, I do not think I will get my firearm back.
    I would not recommend posting any details here until approved by your attorney.

    I have no person experience with lawyers in Tennessee, but found this:

    Tennessee
    Patton & Pittman Attorneys

    Patrick E. Stegall, Attorney and Counselor At Law

    http://gunrightsattorneys.com/attorneys/
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RikuNoganashi View Post
    I had a run in with the 'Law Enforcement' today that left me with one less gun, and I am wondering if there are any good lawyers in TN that deal specifically in gun laws and the like? Any suggestions would be appreciated, because I have to be in court in two months, and if I dont have some sort of legally sound plan, I do not think I will get my firearm back.
    try the TN Firearms Association. They may be able to point you in the right direction. Good luck with it!
    http://www.tfaonline.org/index.php

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    So you've had your HCP less than a year and have several posts here about being stopped by LEOs or booted out of private businesses. With your weapon taken I can only assume it was for unlawful carry (where you were not supposed to be) or carrying while intoxicated (which I've arrested most HCP holders for).

    I would not seek out any advertising attorney. Go to the court of the jurisdiction where you were arrested and find out who is in there a lot. They will know the District Attorney's well and have normally more criminal litigation experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtScott31 View Post
    So you've had your HCP less than a year and have several posts here about being stopped by LEOs or booted out of private businesses. With your weapon taken I can only assume it was for unlawful carry (where you were not supposed to be) or carrying while intoxicated (which I've arrested most HCP holders for).

    I would not seek out any advertising attorney. Go to the court of the jurisdiction where you were arrested and find out who is in there a lot. They will know the District Attorney's well and have normally more criminal litigation experience.

    You know what they say about assuming, don't you? It makes an ass out of you and me. In this case, not me. It had nothing to do with intoxication, because I do not drink alcohol or use any sort of narcotics. Nor did it have anything to do with unlawful carry. At the moment, that is all I can say. I have been very busy these last three months, and have had little time to actually check in on this thread. Grapeshot, thank you for the links, I will be contacting them as well. Blk97F150, thank you as well for your link. Still not done with everything, but things -are- looking up, so there is that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RikuNoganashi View Post
    You know what they say about assuming, don't you? It makes an ass out of you and me. In this case, not me. It had nothing to do with intoxication, because I do not drink alcohol or use any sort of narcotics. Nor did it have anything to do with unlawful carry. At the moment, that is all I can say. I have been very busy these last three months, and have had little time to actually check in on this thread. Grapeshot, thank you for the links, I will be contacting them as well. Blk97F150, thank you as well for your link. Still not done with everything, but things -are- looking up, so there is that.
    Of all the HCP holders I've arrested, 99.9% of them did something irresponsible. From being drunk, to walking through the airport security checkpoint with their weapon, to displaying their weapon because a woman wouldn't move out of a parking spot. While your situation might be different and you may be innocent, due to my experience overall from almost 12 years on the job, it's a rarity. So please excuse the level of skepticism I have.
    Last edited by SgtScott31; 09-30-2013 at 03:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtScott31 View Post
    Of all the HCP holders I've arrested, 99.9% of them did something irresponsible. From being drunk, to walking through the airport security checkpoint with their weapon, to displaying their weapon because a woman wouldn't move out of a parking spot. While your situation might be different and you may be innocent, due to my experience overall from almost 12 years on the job, it's a rarity. So please excuse the level of skepticism I have.
    Presuming guilt until proven innocent?

    In my experience, the greatest "fault" of most was knowing the law better than the officer = contemp of cop.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtScott31 View Post
    Of all the HCP holders I've arrested, 99.9% of them did something irresponsible. From being drunk, to walking through the airport security checkpoint with their weapon, to displaying their weapon because a woman wouldn't move out of a parking spot. While your situation might be different and you may be innocent, due to my experience overall from almost 12 years on the job, it's a rarity. So please excuse the level of skepticism I have.
    Irresponsible, or illegal? So far as I am aware, there is a very large difference between the two. Due to my own experiences of dealing with the LEOs in this county, I will ask the same of you in excusing my skepticism regarding anything said by one. However, I digress. I have had quite a bit of trouble finding lawyers in this county willing to do anything that goes against the LE agencies here, so I am in a bit of a financial bind, can't afford the ones out of state, and I have very little by way of assets to persuade the ones here with. It is how it is, I suppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RikuNoganashi View Post
    Irresponsible, or illegal? So far as I am aware, there is a very large difference between the two. Due to my own experiences of dealing with the LEOs in this county, I will ask the same of you in excusing my skepticism regarding anything said by one. However, I digress. I have had quite a bit of trouble finding lawyers in this county willing to do anything that goes against the LE agencies here, so I am in a bit of a financial bind, can't afford the ones out of state, and I have very little by way of assets to persuade the ones here with. It is how it is, I suppose.
    Found these attorneys - no personal recommendation though:

    http://gunrightsattorneys.com/patric...eral-practice/

    http://www.cain-law.com/lawyer-attorney-1531616.html


    http://www.hollinslegal.com/articles...-of-tennessee/


    You might consider contacting the Tennessee Firearms Association to see what assistance/ideas they could provide.
    http://www.tfaonline.org/
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RikuNoganashi View Post
    ....I have had quite a bit of trouble finding lawyers in this county willing to do anything that goes against the LE agencies here, so I am in a bit of a financial bind, can't afford the ones out of state, ....
    Finding an out of state lawyer who is licensed to practice in TN might be quite the hurdle also, add that to your grievences.

    You can get some free advice from the Legal Aid Society in Middle TN:

    http://www.las.org/clinics


    - OS

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    Quote Originally Posted by RikuNoganashi View Post
    Irresponsible, or illegal? So far as I am aware, there is a very large difference between the two. Due to my own experiences of dealing with the LEOs in this county, I will ask the same of you in excusing my skepticism regarding anything said by one. However, I digress. I have had quite a bit of trouble finding lawyers in this county willing to do anything that goes against the LE agencies here, so I am in a bit of a financial bind, can't afford the ones out of state, and I have very little by way of assets to persuade the ones here with. It is how it is, I suppose.
    Another possibility is that the attorney will not take it because there's no reasonable defense to whatever you've been charged with.

    Presuming guilt until proven innocent?

    In my experience, the greatest "fault" of most was knowing the law better than the officer = contemp of cop
    .

    You would like to think so. I call it proving irresponsibility. As much as you guys want to think it doesn't exist with gun owners/carriers, IT DOES.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Presuming guilt until proven innocent?

    In my experience, the greatest "fault" of most was knowing the law better than the officer = contemp of cop.
    Quote Originally Posted by SgtScott31 View Post
    Another possibility is that the attorney will not take it because there's no reasonable defense to whatever you've been charged with.

    .

    You would like to think so. I call it proving irresponsibility. As much as you guys want to think it doesn't exist with gun owners/carriers, IT DOES.
    At the risk of being repetitious Sgt - you seem to presume guilt until innocence is proven.

    Find that a vast preponderance of legal gun carriers are most responsible - never said none were irresponsible ever. You imply otherwise w/o basis in fact.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Find that a vast preponderance of legal gun carriers are most responsible - never said none were irresponsible ever. You imply otherwise w/o basis in fact.
    I'm not sure why you take my statements to mean that carriers are "guilty" of something. I don't presume carriers are "guilty" of anything. I KNOW they're armed. I can presume that they're dangerous until I say otherwise. Whether I do or not depends on the situation. I may not approach them at all. If I do have a reason to approach I'm going to provide them with information why I made contact with them and instructions about what to do with their firearm during our interaction. If I feel the need to disarm them I will. Every contact is different, but the bottom line is I'm going to go home at the end of the night. Although it's not a lot, I've arrested enough carriers that I'm not going to look at any single one of them like Mary Poppins just because they hold a TN HCP. You have the luxury of likely knowing the majority of carriers you come into contact with. I don't. While most are good folks, I don't have the ability to know THAT one carrier that just left his home after killing his wife/girlfriend, or under the influence of drugs/alcohol, or suffering from a severe case of PTSD or other disorder that hasn't been diagnosed which poses a threat. I have yet to disarm a permit holder who was simply OCing, but I have disarmed plenty of others involved in other activities, some of which lead to arrests and seizure of the weapon. The facts and circumstances surrounding the contact dictates how I'm going to act towards you and the actions I take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtScott31 View Post
    Of all the HCP holders I've arrested, 99.9% of them did something irresponsible.
    99.9% Means at least 1000 HCP holders arrested to avoid that icky fraction of an arrestee. He may have beat the rap but he did not survive that ride.

    I suspect false precision for rhetorical impact.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Not happy.

    Now that everything is over with, I think I can go ahead and post some details.

    It started with me and a friend, call him D, got into my car and headed over to pick up a third friend, call him S. S lives in a bad part of town, so we decided to get in, and get out, as fast as possible. I had my gun in a shoulder holster on my right side, and was sitting in the front passenger seat, D was driving. We got to S's house, and killed the engine in his driveway, then honked for him to come outside. When he did, he decided to try pulling a Bo duke and slide over the hood of my car. S is not the most graceful person, and he wound up falling off, onto the end of his driveway. Allegedly, someone called the police and reported a black male being struck by a car because S was laying at the end of his driveway. We of course didnt know about that at the time, and I got out to help him up. About the time we both got back into the vehicle, myself back in the front passenger seat, and S in the rear passenger seat, two bicycle cops show up. I turned my digital tape recorder on, and put it in my spare mag pouch. One of the bike cops threw his bicycle down in front of my car, blocking any exit, and cut his leg on the chain gear in the process, They were both wearing shorts at the time.

    They both approached my car, one on the driver side, one on the passenger, which I assume is normal procedure, and the older of the two, on the driver side, proceeded to begin asking the three of us questions, why were we out there, what our names were, that sort of thing. Now, I have had run-ins with the cops out here before, and they always run the same course, But this time seemed different, as the younger of the two had his gun unsnapped and his hand on it. The older of the two finally stated that they had gotten a call about a black male being hit by a car, and that they believed it to be my car. I finally spoke up at this point, informing them that no one had been hit, that S was just goofing around and fell off the hood. About that time, the younger cop noticed the handle of my mossberg 500 tactical shotgun sticking out from under the back of the driver seat, and proceeded to pull his gun, put it against S's head, and started shouting at us. "Move and I will f***ing kill you!" I had no idea what the problem was, considering I always keep my shotgun under the driver seat, as well as two rifles in the trunk. I didnt even think the shotgun was an issue, as none of the previous stops had made it one.

    The older cop drew his gun as well, clearly confused as to what was happening, and reached in with his free hand to yank the keys out of the ignition, throwing them on top of my car. The younger cop reached in, unlocked the rear passenger door, and forcibly removed S, throwing him to the ground while shouting "I got the black guy!" Myself and D, the driver, stayed where we were, still trying to figure out what had happened. After S was handcuffed, and several more cops, with cars, showed up, along with two ambulances and a firetruck, We were removed as well. D got out on his own, and was walked off to the side to be interrogated, While I was also forcibly removed and handcuffed. My gun was -then- taken off my side as I was patted down. The spare mag on my left side was removed, tossed to the ground, and then the younger cop removed my digital recorder, from the second mag pouch. He held it up for the other cops to see, then threw it onto the asphalt, breaking it open and then loudly exclaiming, "Oops, it fell." Once he had removed all my belongings, including my cell phone, I was pushed to the ground and held in place by his knee. Roughly ten minutes later, He got off my back and began helping the other cops search my car. My shotgun was removed and placed on the squad car behind them, followed by my rifles, my pistol, and the assorted other weapons in my trunk. Myself and S remained handcuffed, face down on the asphalt, for about two and a half hours, the time it took them to search my entire vehicle twice, pull the seat cushions out, put a snake cam down my gas tank, and then do a mirror search of the underside.

    After this was done, they came back over to myself and S, D was sitting a few hundred feet off, talking to another cop, and proceeded to take out their cell phones to take pictures of our faces. Now, I have an eye disorder, known as photo-phobia, that requires me to wear prescription sunglasses at all times during the day. My sunglasses were removed, despite my protests, so that they could take these pictures. I of course had to close my eyes tightly, and continued to repeat to them that I needed my glasses back. It took nearly twenty minutes for one of them to finally put them back on for me, as I was -still- handcuffed.
    Roughly three hours after it began, they finally uncuffed myself and S, sitting us up on the side of the road and citing us both for Unlawful Possession, as they claimed the shotgun was loaded. I vehemently denied this, as I knew, as well as D and S, that there was no round in the chamber of the gun. They ignored me for a few minutes, then told me to "Shut the f**k up or we'll find something else too." Several of the cops left after that, taking my shotgun, but not my rifles, or my pistol, and left us to clean up all my belongings. Six months and four court hearings later, I was told I could either forfeit the shotgun, and have all charges against myself and S dropped, or we could both sit in jail for two months awaiting a trial. Neither of us can afford to lose our jobs, and two months in jail for a crime that the state itself wanted to drop just wasnt feasible, so I of course caved in to their blackmail and forfeited the gun. Just like that, all charges were dropped, and nothing more was said.

    So thats that. I am in the market for a replacement 500 tactical, and the so called 'Justice System" has made a permanent -Anti Gov- out of me.

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    This is sick.

    With an HCP (Handgun Carry Permit) you are allowed to have a long gun loaded in a vehicle as long as there is not a round in the chamber.

    These policemen are not keeping the streets safer. Instead, they are abusing power and oppressing the people.

    This is what the 2nd Amendment, etc. is supposed to protect. Unfortunately, they could care less about the natural rights of the very people they claim to protect and serve.

    smh......
    Last edited by independence; 12-30-2013 at 01:14 AM.
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    Sgt Scott may be able to provide more insight but in AR, the law reads that having a loaded shotgun or center fire rifle loaded in your car is illegal UNLESS you have a CCW. If TN law is similar, having a loaded shotty should not be an issue if you have your HCP. I think AR law may even allow for loaded shotty's and rimfires without permit.

    Ive never been asked to leave a business although i have been disarmed one time for about 10 minutes while the officer ran my CCW permit. It ended with a good 2A discussion and myself thanking the officer.


    No offense to any LEOs here but i do have a funny story about Memphis bicycle cops. A few years ago my buddy and i were out on our motorcycles to hang out and notice three MPD bicycles chained up outside our restaurant of choice. one was secured normally through the frame but the other two both had the chain wrapped around the seat post (if you wanted to take it, you would simply remove the seat with the quick release lever, remove the chain and put the seat back on). It was kind of comical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    Sgt Scott may be able to provide more insight but in AR, the law reads that having a loaded shotgun or center fire rifle loaded in your car is illegal UNLESS you have a CCW. If TN law is similar, having a loaded shotty should not be an issue if you have your HCP. I think AR law may even allow for loaded shotty's and rimfires without permit.
    ....
    You not read the previous post?

    TN law is quite clear: with a carry permit from any state, you may have a loaded long gun in private vehicle, but cannot have a round in the chamber.

    The cops apparently claimed there was a round in the chamber, I guess, otherwise there would be no violation. OP says there was not.

    - OS
    Last edited by Oh Shoot; 01-04-2014 at 07:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh Shoot View Post
    You not read the previous post?

    TN law is quite clear: with a carry permit from any state, you may have a loaded long gun in private vehicle, but cannot have a round in the chamber.

    The cops apparently claimed there was a round in the chamber, I guess, otherwise there would be no violation. OP says there was not.

    - OS
    Maybe he needs a cite:

    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/tncode/
    TCA 39-17-1307

    (e) (1) It is an exception to the application of subsection (a) that a person authorized to carry a handgun pursuant to 39-17-1351 is transporting a rifle or shotgun in or on a privately-owned motor vehicle and the rifle or shotgun does not have ammunition in the chamber. However, the person does not violate this section by inserting ammunition into the chamber if the ammunition is inserted for purposes of justifiable self-defense pursuant to 39-11-611 or 39-11-612.


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    I would very much like to hear what Sgt Scott has to say about this, As well as any other cops on this forum. I have gotten quite a few responses from the lawyers I contacted, and of course, after the fact, I have been told many times that I was wronged, but that it doesnt matter now, as the charges have been dropped. None of these lawyers would even return my calls beforehand, so I found that a bit...funny. But I digress. I would very much like to have some input from the cops here regarding what happened, see if any of them can offer logical justifications for what the cops here did.

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    You did not plead guilty to anything? I don't see how they can steal your gun.

    Gotta be someone you can sue.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RikuNoganashi View Post
    I would very much like to hear what Sgt Scott has to say about this, As well as any other cops on this forum. I have gotten quite a few responses from the lawyers I contacted, and of course, after the fact, I have been told many times that I was wronged, but that it doesnt matter now, as the charges have been dropped. None of these lawyers would even return my calls beforehand, so I found that a bit...funny. But I digress. I would very much like to have some input from the cops here regarding what happened, see if any of them can offer logical justifications for what the cops here did.
    Well to start... do you or did you have a permit?

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Well to start... do you or did you have a permit?

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    According to this post, he is a permit holder:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh....php?p=1894213

    Although I am also a permit holder myself, I actually believe that the permit process is tyrannical and that the 2A should suffice as a permit. I'm not going to presume you would, but if you would make a judgment call on the situation based on whether he has a permit or not then you are coming at it from a tyrannical mindset in the first place, which would cloud your ability to provide constructive commentary.


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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    According to this post, he is a permit holder:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh....php?p=1894213

    Although I am also a permit holder myself, I actually believe that the permit process is tyrannical and that the 2A should suffice as a permit. I'm not going to presume you would, but if you would make a judgment call on the situation based on whether he has a permit or not then you are coming at it from a tyrannical mindset in the first place, which would cloud your ability to provide constructive commentary.


    Sent from an app instead of a browser simply because browsers on mobile devices are incapable of basic usability by design so that people can sell apps.
    ? What? He wanted info. Needs info to get info. Many have mentioned you need a permit to legally carry guns in your car. So I'm asking of he had a permit to have said shotgun and the slew of other guns loaded (but none in chamber) in his car.

    Easy with the tyranny. He asked for an opinion and I won't give one until I know the facts.

    Also, he seemed to want to know a LEGAL opinion. So whether you have a permit can/does mean a lot. Calling something tyrannical is political opinion, which isn't what he SEEMED to ask for.

    Best part... if I disagree the its not constructive? Hmmmm..... seems wrong on many levels.

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