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Thread: magazine failure to feed issues

  1. #1
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    magazine failure to feed issues

    I've got some questions about a failure to feed issue on my firearm.

    I have a Glock 27 that, up until a few days ago, never had any malfunctions. A few days ago, I shot it with a Glock 22 magazine (15 rounds) that I had gotten the previous December. It malfunctioned three times. One of them was just a 2-second hesitation to load the round. On the other two, I had to rack the slide to get it to feed the next round. The gun has never malfunctioned previously; and after using the 15-round magazine once, I shot several 9-round magazines through it with no issues.

    Based on these facts, the issue is most likely related to the 15-round magazine. My first question is: is it normal for Glock 27's to jam on Glock 22 magazines (it was my understanding that Glock magazines are one-direction interchangeable among models within the same caliber)? Second, what should I look for with regards to problems in the magazine?
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    you can clean it and see if it improves ... if not, toss it ... springs go bad ...

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Apparently David has stock in Glock magazines.

    Yes, there might be dirt/detrius that needs to be cleaned out.

    Yes, the magazine spring might be bad (not probable but possible).

    The follower may be sticking simply because some lubrication is needed. Many folks never lubricate their magazines over the couse of its lifetime.

    Have you looked at the feed lips? That seems to be where the majority of feed problems stem from regardless of what magazine for what gun platform.

    But most likely your problem stems from the fact that you bought a Glock instead of a real handgun. (Just had to get a dig in on the plastic fantastic wundergewehr. It's almost a rule. )

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    This thread is false. Glocks never jam. Ever.

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    Are you putting extra hand pressure on the mag because it is sticking out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    you can clean it and see if it improves ... if not, toss it ... springs go bad ...
    I'll look into that. I would hope that a bad spring isn't the issue, given that it's a brand new magazine (bought it in December; shot it for the first time this past week).

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Apparently David has stock in Glock magazines.

    Yes, there might be dirt/detrius that needs to be cleaned out.

    Yes, the magazine spring might be bad (not probable but possible).

    The follower may be sticking simply because some lubrication is needed. Many folks never lubricate their magazines over the couse of its lifetime.

    Have you looked at the feed lips? That seems to be where the majority of feed problems stem from regardless of what magazine for what gun platform.

    But most likely your problem stems from the fact that you bought a Glock instead of a real handgun. (Just had to get a dig in on the plastic fantastic wundergewehr. It's almost a rule. )

    stay safe.
    I did notice that, on two of the jams (the ones where I had to rack the slide), the bullet was not in the correct orientation. Instead of being angled upward, the jammed rounds were caught on the feed ramp and facing either level or slightly downward. Basically, it appeared that the spring had not pushed the round up far enough and quickly enough before the slide came back forward.

    And, as to your last comment, I chose the Glock (generation 4, to be exact) for several reasons. It is easy to take apart for cleaning (I can actually disassemble and reassemble it blind-folded in about a minute). It's very simple to operate (i.e., there is no issue of forgetting to turn a safety off while in a high stress defensive situation). Finally, compared to most men, I have very small hands. The grip on a generation 4 Glock fits my hand perfectly. The grips on many of the "real guns" (1911, for example) just simply do not fit my hands very well. Also, I don't particularly like guns with a grip safety (it's an OCD thing; I don't like a grip that has a moving part in it; I like the feel of a nice, rock-solid grip).

    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    This thread is false. Glocks never jam. Ever.
    Indeed, I have put several hundred rounds through the stock 9-round magazines without a single jam. All three jams have occurred on this one magazine; and the jam rate was 20% for that single 15-round magazine (I used it only once that particular day).

    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Are you putting extra hand pressure on the mag because it is sticking out.
    That is possible. Generally, due to my small hand size, my pinky finger rests on the 1/4 inch base plate on the stock magazines (for those not familiar with a Glock 27, the subcompact Glocks have space on the grip for only two non-trigger fingers; due to my small hand size, I'm able to rest my third finger on the bottom of the magazine). Therefore, it is possible that my pinky finger could be pressing against the magazine and altering its angle.
    Last edited by Nascar24Glock; 06-02-2013 at 02:39 PM.
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    Glock is a real hand gun my fine sir!
    Nothing better than a Glock.........except maybe another Glock!

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    how many rounds do you have through the glock?
    have you replaced the recoil spring??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cava3r4 View Post
    how many rounds do you have through the glock?
    have you replaced the recoil spring??
    I've put several hundred rounds through it with no issues. After using the 15-round magazine, I put another forty or so through it with no issues on the stock 9-round magazines. All three jams occurred within the 15 rounds I put through it on the 15-round magazine. I used the same ammunition type in the stock and 15-round magazines.

    And, no, I've never replaced the recoil spring.
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    One shouldn't have to replace a recoil spring for thousands of rounds.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I have a G26 and a G27, both of which are gen3's, and though I don't shoot them very much, neither one of them have ever had any problems of any kind whatsoever. I installed a Pierce mag extension on both or their primary magazines to allow my shooting hand to gain a better purchase on the guns. In your case, I am leaning towards one of your hands contacting your larger magazine at the time of firing. I know I had something like this happen to my primary carry gen3 G23 (was shooting from a rest once and the recoil apparently caused the magazine to seat deeper into its well causing a stovepipe). In particular, I would bet one or both of your hands is causing the larger magazine to bend towards the backstrap at the moment of firing. This would be a natural thing since recoil pushes the gun up and back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    This thread is false. Glocks never jam. Ever.
    The OP must be limp wristing. We know only SNS jam.

    Honestly it is probably the ammo or a nick in the feed ramp. Try different ammo, polish the feed ramp, THEN look to the magazines. If all else fails use the Glock warranty. If they are like Hi Point(SNS) they will fix or replace free of charge and give you new magazines to comp for the shipping.

    OR just buy a 3 Hi Points for the cost of one Glock.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    OR just buy a 3 Hi Points for the cost of one Glock.
    Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

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    The only FTF issues I have seen with Glock 27 and 17's is from limp wristing. In both cases they were girls. The first one has gotten lots of training and now fired a couple thousand Rds and no longer has the issue. The second I'm working on. Not to say there can't be other causes. But they are very reliable feeding arms.
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    DOH!

    It it runs without any issues with one mag, and jams repeatedly with a different mag, it's the flipping mag

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    Re: magazine failure to feed issues

    Just thought that I would point out my Ruger Super Blackhawk has never had an ammunition feed issue. There was another thread, now locked about the suitability of one for an OC piece. Hurumph!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kurt555gs View Post
    Just thought that I would point out my Ruger Super Blackhawk has never had an ammunition feed issue. There was another thread, now locked about the suitability of one for an OC piece. Hurumph!

    Carthago Delenda Est
    I was thinking about that, but I decided to be a good boy and not bring it up. I missed that the issue was with one magazine, the OP should take it apart, clean it, polish the bearing surfaces, lightly lube it, and put it back together. Personally I do not oil my mags, I polish them internally, and wax them with Johnson's paste wax. Oil attracts grit, which will bind a mag.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I was thinking about that, but I decided to be a good boy and not bring it up. I missed that the issue was with one magazine, the OP should take it apart, clean it, polish the bearing surfaces, lightly lube it, and put it back together. Personally I do not oil my mags, I polish them internally, and wax them with Johnson's paste wax. Oil attracts grit, which will bind a mag.
    I use either a quality dry lube (Hornady's One Shot) or a good silicone spray (CRC Heavy Duty). Neither of these will attract dirt, lint, or debris in and of themselves and do work to keep the internal movements slippery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I use either a quality dry lube (Hornady's One Shot) or a good silicone spray (CRC Heavy Duty). Neither of these will attract dirt, lint, or debris in and of themselves and do work to keep the internal movements slippery.
    +1

    I lube the follower and the internal bearing surface with One Shot.

    I do, however, lightly oil the spring and wipe it dry. That alone doesn't attract much of anything.

    I use stainless mags/followers, but the spring is still susceptible to corrosion, and I've never been impressed with One Shot's corrosion prevention abilities. Silicone spray probably works well in that regard, but I've never convinced myself to like the stuff.

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    since you said it was new i would check and insure you in fact got a g22 magazine and not a g17 magazine. they can be easily mixed up just by glancing at them

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I have a G26 and a G27, both of which are gen3's, and though I don't shoot them very much, neither one of them have ever had any problems of any kind whatsoever. I installed a Pierce mag extension on both or their primary magazines to allow my shooting hand to gain a better purchase on the guns. In your case, I am leaning towards one of your hands contacting your larger magazine at the time of firing. I know I had something like this happen to my primary carry gen3 G23 (was shooting from a rest once and the recoil apparently caused the magazine to seat deeper into its well causing a stovepipe). In particular, I would bet one or both of your hands is causing the larger magazine to bend towards the backstrap at the moment of firing. This would be a natural thing since recoil pushes the gun up and back.
    This is possible. Since the Glock 27 has space on the grip for only two non-trigger fingers (middle and ring), I usually rest my pinky finger on the very bottom of the stock magazine (which would be about 3/4 of an inch from the bottom on the 15-round magazine that I'm having issues with). I'll test that theory out next time I go shooting and see if leaving the pinky finger off of it makes any difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Motofixxer View Post
    The only FTF issues I have seen with Glock 27 and 17's is from limp wristing. In both cases they were girls. The first one has gotten lots of training and now fired a couple thousand Rds and no longer has the issue. The second I'm working on. Not to say there can't be other causes. But they are very reliable feeding arms.
    Well, unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, I have very small hands for a man. More specifically, my hands are basically the size of a girl's hands. According to this website (http://www.celtarts.com/ring_size.htm), my hands, using my right ring finger size (6.75) as a proxy, are closer to a woman's average hand size (7) than a man's average hand size (10). So, any issues with "girls commonly limp-wristing a Glock", perhaps due to smaller hand sizes, may apply to this situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by g21sfpistol View Post
    since you said it was new i would check and insure you in fact got a g22 magazine and not a g17 magazine. they can be easily mixed up just by glancing at them
    It is a Glock 22 magazine. The magazine has holes to indicate 15 rounds, not 17; the rear side of the magazine has the inscription ".40" at the top; and the top of the magazine towards the rear has the inscription ".40" (although, interestingly, the front of the top of the magazine, where the magazine contacts with the slide stop, has the inscription "9.", just like my stock 9-round magazines).
    Last edited by Nascar24Glock; 06-10-2013 at 11:17 PM.
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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascar24Glock View Post
    This is possible. Since the Glock 27 has space on the grip for only two non-trigger fingers (middle and ring), I usually rest my pinky finger on the very bottom of the stock magazine (which would be about 3/4 of an inch from the bottom on the 15-round magazine that I'm having issues with). I'll test that theory out next time I go shooting and see if leaving the pinky finger off of it makes any difference.



    Well, unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, I have very small hands for a man. More specifically, my hands are basically the size of a girl's hands. According to this website (http://www.celtarts.com/ring_size.htm), my hands, using my right ring finger size (6.75) as a proxy, are closer to a woman's average hand size (7) than a man's average hand size (10). So, any issues with "girls commonly limp-wristing a Glock", perhaps due to smaller hand sizes, may apply to this situation.



    It is a Glock 22 magazine. The magazine has holes to indicate 15 rounds, not 17; the rear side of the magazine has the inscription ".40" at the top; and the top of the magazine towards the rear has the inscription ".40" (although, interestingly, the front of the top of the magazine, where the magazine contacts with the slide stop, has the inscription "9.", just like my stock 9-round magazines).
    Does it say .40 on the follower? Just curious.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Two things in my experience can cause this. Either lubrication/dirt and debris, or leaving it completely loaded for extended periods then attempting to fire the ammo that has been sitting it in the entire time. Keep them clean and oiled, and leave a round or two of capacity empty on magazines like glock's which have tiny followers to maximize capacity, and it won't happen.

    I definitely would not jump to replace the spring. If the spring has a compression issue, taking the magazine apart and cleaning it will let the spring "breath" well enough to make it good to go again, at least in my experience, so long as it isn't topped off for great lengths of time.

    Not that I would say absolutely don't leave a magazine with a small follower topped off, just that I would unload and reload it no less than monthly, and preferably every couple weeks just to be sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Does it say .40 on the follower? Just curious.
    The follower does say ".40" on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    Two things in my experience can cause this. Either lubrication/dirt and debris, or leaving it completely loaded for extended periods then attempting to fire the ammo that has been sitting it in the entire time. Keep them clean and oiled, and leave a round or two of capacity empty on magazines like glock's which have tiny followers to maximize capacity, and it won't happen.

    I definitely would not jump to replace the spring. If the spring has a compression issue, taking the magazine apart and cleaning it will let the spring "breath" well enough to make it good to go again, at least in my experience, so long as it isn't topped off for great lengths of time.

    Not that I would say absolutely don't leave a magazine with a small follower topped off, just that I would unload and reload it no less than monthly, and preferably every couple weeks just to be sure.
    I have stored this particular 15-round magazine completely unloaded. For the stock magazines, I load 8 out of 9 rounds and rotate them about once every other month.

    I may try taking it apart and putting some oil on it.
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    Metal springs weaken over time due to metal fatigue. Metal fatigue is the name we use to explain the microscopic cracks that develop in the crystalline structure of the metal. Those cracks are created by repeated deformation of the metal. As the metal is deformed the cracks become worse. The more repeated the metal is deformed, the worse the cracks will get. Eventually the metal's ability to return to shape weakens. Unfortunately there is a lot of mythology in the firearms community about how metal fatigue works. Most of the mythology points to leaving metal springs compressed over long periods of time. Except that the function of metal fatigue requires repeated deformation. Once a metal spring is compressed it does not continue to form the minute fractures. The methodology of the fracturing requires compression followed by extension followed by compression etc, etc.

    In other words, compressing a spring for long periods of time will have no affect on the structural integrity of the spring unless you hyper extend the spring past it's rebound point, spring creep. What actually weakens springs is the constant action of compressing and then releasing the spring repetitively. This is called cyclic loading. When you load and unload a magazine you are introducing and exacerbating microscopic fractures. That is the only time when those fractures occur. Leaving a magazine loaded will have far less impact on metal fatigue than to be cycling the spring frequently. Fatigue is irreversible. Once it's started, it will continue and accumulate over time as you compress and relax the spring.

    This might help people interested in understand the mechanism of metal fatigue:

    http://www.epi-eng.com/mechanical_en...htm#cumulative

    http://larrylawson.net/fatigue.htm

    If you're really a glutton for punishment you could read:

    ASM Handbook Volume 19, Fatigue And Fracture

    But generally only structural engineers read that kind of stuff.
    Last edited by mobiushky; 06-11-2013 at 03:20 PM.

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