DOJ Permanent Rules for CCL effective June 1, 2013

Jus 17.12 Fees.

(1) LICENSE FEE. The license fee charged by the department pursuant to s. 175.60(7)(c), Stats., shall be $30.
(2) BACKGROUND CHECK FEE. The fee for any background check conducted by the department pursuant to s. Jus 17.04(1)(f) or s. Jus 17.07(5)(b) shall be $13.
(3) REPLACEMENT OR RENEWAL FEE. The fee charged by the department for replacing a lost or destroyed license pursuant to s. 175.60(13), Stats., or for renewing a license pursuant to s. 175.60(15)(b)4.a., Stats., shall be $12.

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Jus 17.03(7) “Firearms safety or training course” means a course of instructor-led training that provides a certificate or affidavit of successful completion that includes the items specified in s. Jus 17.05(2)(a) and that, at a minimum, instructs on, and practices the student’s comprehension of, firearm safety rules; safe firearm and ammunition use, handling, transport, and storage; legally permissible possession, transportation, and use of firearms, including use of deadly force; and techniques for avoiding and controlling violent confrontations.

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Jus 17.05(2)(a) A certificate or affidavit supplied by the instructor or organization that is submitted to the department under sub. (1)(b), (c), (d), (e), (f), or (g) for the purpose of documenting that the applicant has successfully completed a firearms safety or training course shall include all of the following information:

1. The applicant’s name.
2. The name of the firearms safety or training course.
3. The date on which the applicant completed the firearms safety or training course.
4. The name of the instructor who taught the firearms safety or training course to the applicant and the name of the agency or organization that certified the instructor.

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Jus 17.03(8) “Instructor-led” means training that is conducted face-to-face individually or in groups with an instructor-student ratio that does not exceed 50 students per instructor and in which instructors actively guide students through each lesson, answer questions, facilitate discussion, and provide feedback on activities and assignments. Learner-led or self-directed learning—the delivery of learning experiences to independent learners who lead and manage their own experience, delivered via web pages, multimedia presentations, computer applications, online presentations, or similar methods—is not instructor-led.

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Interceptor_Knight said:

This shows even more that the current Republican Regime in Madison is not really on the side of Gun Rights. Use of deadly force and avoiding violent confrontation has zero to do with basic firearms safety. This eliminates many good safety courses which are not "carry" courses.

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E6chevron said:

Exactly.

Why would they insist on covering "Use of deadly force and avoiding violent confrontation" when this is for a Concealed Carry License, and applicants are mostly private citizens who want to carry for their own defense?

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E6chevron said:

Exactly.

Why would they insist on covering "Use of deadly force and avoiding violent confrontation" when this is for a Concealed Carry License, and applicants are mostly private citizens who want to carry for their own defense?

It really corks me that they also are going to charge less money. They slipped that in at the last minute. We would be so much better off with the democrats in charge in Madison!

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Maverick9 said:

My CHL guy droned on for an hour about the obscure names of parts of the gun. In addition he'd hold up something and ask we noobs, 'what's this called'. (lots of blank looks).

It was a total waste of time. He didn't go over Castle Doctrine, he didn't go over much in the tactical sense except to say 'don't go hunting, stop the threat, here are the 3-4 safety rules'. He had some blue guns and he had some of his guns on the table unloaded but we couldn't touch any of them, of course.

He could have cover all we ever needed to know and included some legal stuff in about 3 hours. Instead we spend two days and 4 hrs a day. It was mind-numbing.

Nice guy, though.

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Interceptor_Knight said:

This sounds like an example of someone not teaching a WI course. Judging only by your description, it definitely does not meet the current requirements.

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Maverick9 said:

No shooting requirements either. .

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175.60  License to carry a concealed weapon.
(4) Training requirements.
(b)
2. The department may not require firing live ammunition to meet the training requirements under par. (a).

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Nightmare said:

It's unfortunate that the entire TRAINING REQUIREMENTS was not quoted.

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1. A signed statement by the instructor who taught the firearms safety or training course to the applicant affirming that the course completed by the applicant was a firearms safety and training course as defined in s. Jus 17.03 (7).

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3. A signed statement by the applicant as part of the application affirming that the applicant successfully completed a firearms safety or training course and describing the scope and contents of that course in a manner sufficient to determine that the course was a firearms safety and training course as defined in s. Jus 17.03 (7).

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Jus 17.03  Definitions. In this chapter:
(7) "Firearms safety or training course" means a course of instructor-led training that provides a certificate or affidavit of successful completion that includes the items specified in s. Jus 17.05 (2) (a) and that, at a minimum, instructs on, and practices the student's comprehension of, firearm safety rules; safe firearm and ammunition use, handling, transport, and storage; legally permissible possession, transportation, and use of firearms, including use of deadly force; and techniques for avoiding and controlling violent confrontations.
(8) "Instructor-led" means training that is conducted face-to-face individually or in groups with an instructor-student ratio that does not exceed 50 students per instructor and in which instructors actively guide students through each lesson, answer questions, facilitate discussion, and provide feedback on activities and assignments. Learner-led or self-directed learning — the delivery of learning experiences to independent learners who lead and manage their own experience, delivered via web pages, multimedia presentations, computer applications, online presentations, or similar methods — is not instructor-led.

Jus 17.05  Training and documentation requirements.
(1)  TRAINING DOCUMENTATION TO BE FURNISHED BY APPLICANT. The following forms of documentation shall be accepted by the department as adequate proof of training sufficient to satisfy the training requirements of s. 175.60 (4) (a), Stats., and of this section:
(a) A certificate or affidavit documenting that the applicant has successfully completed the department of natural resources' hunter education program or a substantially similar program that is established by another state, country, or province and is recognized by the department of natural resources.
(b) A certificate or affidavit documenting that the applicant has successfully completed a firearms safety or training course conducted by a national or state organization that certifies firearms instructors. The documentation shall include the items specified in sub. (2) and shall affirm that the organization that conducted the course is an organization that certifies firearms instructors.
(c) A certificate or affidavit documenting that the applicant has successfully completed a firearms safety or training course that is available to the public and offered by a law enforcement agency. The documentation shall include the items specified in sub. (2) and shall affirm that the course is one that is available to the public.
(d) A certificate or affidavit documenting that the applicant has successfully completed a firearms safety or training course that is available to the public and offered by a technical college, college, university, private or public institution or organization, or firearms training school. The documentation shall include the items specified in sub. (2), shall affirm that the course was taught by an instructor who is certified either by the department or by a national or state organization that certifies firearms instructors, and shall identify the certifying organization by name.
(e) A certificate or affidavit documenting that the applicant has successfully completed a firearms training course that is offered to law enforcement officers and is certified by the law enforcement standards board or a certificate from an agency of another state documenting that the applicant has successfully completed substantially equivalent training. The documentation shall include the items specified in sub. (2) except that, notwithstanding the requirements of sub.(2), a copy of an educational transcript of the applicant showing successful completion of the requisite training shall suffice to satisfy this requirement.
(f) A certificate or affidavit documenting that the applicant has successfully completed a firearms training course that is offered to owners and employees of private detective and security agencies licensed by the department of safety and professional services under s. 440.26, Stats., or a certificate from an agency of another state documenting that the applicant has successfully completed substantially equivalent training. The documentation shall include the items specified in sub. (2).
(g) A certificate or affidavit documenting that the applicant has successfully completed a firearms safety or training course that is conducted by an instructor who is certified either by the department or by a national or state organization that certifies firearms instructors. The documentation shall include the items specified in sub. (2), shall affirm that the instructor is certified either by the department or by a national or state organization that certifies firearms instructors, and shall identify the certifying organization by name.
(h) A copy of a current or expired license held by the applicant indicating that the applicant is or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state, in another state, or in a county or municipality of this state or of another state, provided that the current or expired license has not been revoked for cause. The copy of the current or expired license shall be accompanied by the applicant's signed affirmation that the current or expired license has not been revoked for cause. This affirmation shall be submitted on an affirmation form that shall be prepared by the department and made available to the public on the department's Internet site.
(i) A copy of a DD-214 form, "Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty," issued by the United States Department of Defense, showing that the applicant has received an honorable discharge or a general discharge under honorable conditions from the United States armed forces, reserves, or national guard after completion of basic or officer training or a certificate of completion of basic or officer training with a service record of successful completion of small arms training and certification.
(2) CONTENT REQUIREMENTS FOR TRAINING CERTIFICATE OR AFFIDAVIT.
(a) A certificate or affidavit supplied by the instructor or organization that is submitted to the department under sub. (1) (b), (c), (d), (e), (f), or (g) for the purpose of documenting that the applicant has successfully completed a firearms safety or training course shall include all of the following information:
.1. The applicant's name.
.2. The name of the firearms safety or training course.
.3. The date on which the applicant completed the firearms safety or training course.
4. The name of the instructor who taught the firearms safety or training course to the applicant and the name of the agency or organization that certified the instructor.
(b) In addition to a certificate or affidavit meeting the requirements of par. (a), the documentation of training submitted by an applicant shall include evidence sufficient to establish that the course completed by the applicant was a firearms safety and training course as defined in s. Jus 17.03 (7). Sufficient evidence shall include one of the following:
1. A signed statement by the instructor who taught the firearms safety or training course to the applicant affirming that the course completed by the applicant was a firearms safety and training course as defined in s. Jus 17.03 (7).
2. Information on the certificate or affidavit described in sub. (2) (a) sufficient to establish that the course completed by the applicant was a firearms safety and training course as defined in s. Jus 17.03 (7).
3. A signed statement by the applicant as part of the application affirming that the applicant successfully completed a firearms safety or training course and describing the scope and contents of that course in a manner sufficient to determine that the course was a firearms safety and training course as defined in s. Jus 17.03 (7).

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Nightmare said:

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/document/statutes/ch. 175

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Interceptor_Knight said:

We were never talking about "good faith" omissions. "Castle doctrine", etc is now a core requirement for any certificates issued beginning June 2 2013. Omitting such training would now be prohibited. There are most definitely specific training requirements regarding course curriculum.

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Model Training Curriculum

The Department of Justice has prepared a model four-hour curriculum, updated to reflect the adoption of permanent administrative rules effective June 1, 2013. This curriculum is available for use by law enforcement agencies and instructors certified by a national or state organization. The model curriculum is ready for use and includes a student text, instructor guide, additional instructor resources, and a model training certificate. This curriculum is not required—instructors may use the curriculum of a national or state organization, or develop their own, as long as that curriculum contains the minimum instructional topics specified under JUS 17.03(7). (DOJ-certified instructors must use this curriculum and the DOJ training certificate on WILENET.)

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E6chevron said:

This Curriculum is only required for courses taught by DOJ-certified instructors. All other instructors have to present a course that covers the areas spelled out in Jus 17.03(7) in my post #2. Perhaps a quote from the DOJ CCW Curriculum webpage will help:

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Jus 17.03  Definitions. In this chapter:
(7) "Firearms safety or training course" means a course of instructor-led training that provides a certificate or affidavit of successful completion that includes the items specified in s. Jus 17.05 (2) (a) and that, at a minimum, instructs on, and practices the student's comprehension of, firearm safety rules; safe firearm and ammunition use, handling, transport, and storage; legally permissible possession, transportation, and use of firearms, including use of deadly force; and techniques for avoiding and controlling violent confrontations.

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Jus 17.05  Training and documentation requirements.
(2) CONTENT REQUIREMENTS FOR TRAINING CERTIFICATE OR AFFIDAVIT.
(b) In addition to a certificate or affidavit meeting the requirements of par. (a), the documentation of training submitted by an applicant shall include evidence sufficient to establish that the course completed by the applicant was a firearms safety and training course as defined in s. Jus 17.03 (7). Sufficient evidence shall include one of the following:
1. A signed statement by the instructor who taught the firearms safety or training course to the applicant affirming that the course completed by the applicant was a firearms safety and training course as defined in s. Jus 17.03 (7).
2. Information on the certificate or affidavit described in sub. (2) (a) sufficient to establish that the course completed by the applicant was a firearms safety and training course as defined in s. Jus 17.03 (7).
3. A signed statement by the applicant as part of the application affirming that the applicant successfully completed a firearms safety or training course and describing the scope and contents of that course in a manner sufficient to determine that the course was a firearms safety and training course as defined in s. Jus 17.03 (7).

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Interceptor_Knight said:

I understand crystal clear what is required. The curriculum I am referring to is that dictated by the definition of "Firearms Safety or Training Course". This is irrelevant of whether you are teaching a DOJ course or not. This curriculum content must be affirmed on the Proof of training certificate by either the instructor or student.

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E6chevron said:

The course content is in the rules. I am glad I included JUS17.03(7) definition of "Firearms Safety or Training Course", in my original post. This subsection has the minimum content for a course. It had a different subsection number in the temporary rules, because the old subsection 17.03(5) "Current and valid" definition was dropped in the permanent rules.

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Interceptor_Knight said:

My point is that the definition in its current form did not exist before the permanent rules went into effect. Firearms Safety Rules and Safe Firearms handling was all that was required... 17.03(8) was the "old" definition. The DOJ tried but these were suspended. Not only is there now more specific (unreasonable) minimum required curriculum/content, the instructor or student must attest to this fact by signing the certificate to that effect.

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/sites/default/files/2011-news/administrative-rules-20111107.pdf

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Interceptor_Knight said:

This eliminates many good safety courses which are not "carry" courses.

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Interceptor_Knight said:

your certificate MUST affirm that you meet the curriculum dictated by the administrative guidelines.

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E6chevron said:

instructors have to present a course that covers the areas spelled out in Jus 17.03(7)

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Interceptor_Knight said:

the definition in its current form did not exist before the permanent rules went into effect. Firearms Safety Rules and Safe Firearms handling was all that was required...

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