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Thread: HB183 recognizes Open Carriers from other states

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    HB183 recognizes Open Carriers from other states

    There is a "safe pass through" provision in HB 183 that allows people from other states that can legally carry ( with a permit or not ) to keep a loaded firearm in their car while in Illinois. Illinois residents with non resident permits however CAN NOT have a loaded gun in their vehicle without an Illinois Concealed Carry License which is a year away if one can possibly qualify. This really shows how our rulers feel about Illinois residents. Excerpt from the bill pertaining to non residents carrying loaded weapons in their vehicles:

    (e) Nothing in this Act shall prohibit a non-resident from
    6 transporting a concealed firearm within his or her vehicle in
    7 Illinois, if the concealed firearm remains within his or her
    8 vehicle and the non-resident:
    9 (1) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a
    10 firearm under federal law;
    11 (2) is eligible to carry a firearm in public under the
    12 laws of his or her state or territory of residence; and
    13 (3) is not in possession of a license under this Act.
    14 If the non-resident leaves his or her vehicle unattended,
    15 he or she shall store the firearm within a locked vehicle or
    16 locked container within the vehicle in accordance with
    17 subsection (b) of Section 65 of this Act.

    Number 11. It does not say you have to have a permit from your state, only that you are elegible to carry in public.

    Also, the distasteful "duty to inform" portion of this act only applies to those that have been issued an Illinois Concealed Carry license. There is no mention of duty to inform for non residents that carry in their vehicles.

    What is even more laughable is that with all of the restricted areas, and criminal penalties, a year from now when you take all the training, and give up all your privacy, and make it past the Governor's permit denying board, you will effectively only be able to carry in you car anyway. And, as an Illinois CCL holder you will be subject to giving up your 4th and 5th amendment rights because of Duty to Inform.

    Ugh! Steaming pile of poo!
    Last edited by kurt555gs; 06-02-2013 at 10:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kurt555gs View Post
    ...he or she shall store the firearm within a locked vehicle or locked container within the vehicle in accordance withsubsection (b) of Section 65 of this Act...
    What does that subsection say about the requirements of storage within the vehicle?
    Last edited by BB62; 06-02-2013 at 10:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    What does that subsection say about the requirements of storage within the vehicle?
    Unloaded and enclosed in a case, unload then carry to your trunk, or leave it loaded ( for non residents only ) and lock it in the glove box or car gun safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kurt555gs View Post
    Unloaded and enclosed in a case, unload then carry to your trunk, or leave it loaded ( for non residents only ) and lock it in the glove box or car gun safe.
    OMG, what stupidity!!

    Clearly for residents the bill is even MORE of a steaming pile of poo than I thought it was! Wow.

    I thought Ohio's law was prehistoric when it was passed - for instance if you were carrying your firearm on your person in a vehicle it had to be in a holster that was in PLAIN SIGHT, but Ohio's original law has absolutely nothing on the idiocy and worthless nature of IL's bicamerally passed law.
    Last edited by BB62; 06-02-2013 at 10:33 PM.

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    Re: HB183 recognizes Open Carriers from other states

    While in the vehicle cousin Charlie from Missouri can keep the concealed weapon on his person and loaded. It's only when you leave the vehicle that you have to lock it up.

    Carthago Delenda Est

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    Let's consider a hypothetical scenario:

    Four or five young people are cruising around the South Side of Chicago on a Summer Night listening to highly amplified music. One of the youngsters is 21 and a cousin of another one in the car from Mississippi. The non-resident youth from Jackson brought his gun with him because he heard Chicago is dangerous. Let's call it a loaded Hi-Point .380. The non resident youth does not have any kind of permit but Mississippi is a non licensed Open Carry State. The Chicago police decide to pull them over. When the cops ask if they have any weapons, the youth from Jackson just keeps his mouth shut and his hand on the gun in the front pocket of his hooded sweatshirt. The chicago police officers decided to search them and find the gun.

    Now, after seeing the Mississippi drivers license, the nice officers say, Oh, you are a non resident that " is eligible to carry a firearm in public under the laws of his or her state or territory of residence ". I'm sorry to trouble you. We just wanted to make sure no Illinois residents had a gun with them. Have a nice day.

    Steaming pile of poo!
    Last edited by kurt555gs; 06-03-2013 at 12:00 AM.

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    kurt55gs,

    HB183, is cited pretty thoroughly here: http://forum.opencarry.org./forums/s...=1#post1944849

    Let me recite Subsection 40(e) of HB183:

    (e) Nothing in this Act shall prohibit a non-resident from transporting a concealed firearm within his or her vehicle in Illinois, if the concealed firearm remains within his or her vehicle and the non-resident:

    _(1) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under federal law;
    _(2) is eligible to carry a firearm in public under the laws of his or her state or territory of residence; and
    _(3) is not in possession of a license under this Act.

    If the non-resident leaves his or her vehicle unattended, he or she shall store the firearm within a locked vehicle or locked container within the vehicle in accordance with subsection (b) of Section 65 of this Act.
    Let's say that you can take that bolded area at face value. Remember that Section 90: Preemption in this act, of some of the existing home rule laws in Illinois, only affects them when they affect licensees. It is possible that a non-resident will not be prohibited by THIS ACT, but if you do not hold an Illinois license or an Illinois FOID card, you will still have to deal with all the home rule laws that affect possession, transport, carrying in a vehicle.

    THOSE laws have been the source of the transport problem in the past, and this Act does not change that.

    Take a look at Section 90. Preemption in my HB183 post.
    Last edited by E6chevron; 06-04-2013 at 04:57 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    kurt55gs,

    HB193, is cited pretty thoroughly here: http://forum.opencarry.org./forums/s...=1#post1944849

    Let me recite Subsection 40(e) of HB193:

    Let's say that you can take that bolded area at face value. Remember that Section 90: Preemption in this act, of some of the existing home rule laws in Illinois, only affects them when they affect licensees. It is possible that a non-resident will not be prohibited by THIS ACT, but if you are not an Illinois licensee, you will still have to deal with all the home rule laws that affect possession, transport, carrying in a vehicle.

    THOSE laws have been the source of the transport problem in the past, and this Act does not change that.

    Take a look at Section 90. Preemption in my HB193 post.
    Good point! Non-residents carry at your own risk! Preemption means nothing unless one is licensed under this act.
    Last edited by OC4me; 06-03-2013 at 09:10 AM.

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    Re: HB183 recognizes Open Carriers from other states

    Section 90 only deals with preemption of CCL licensees.

    Here is the section about preemption for everything else:


    3 (430 ILCS 65/13.1) (from Ch. 38, par. 83-13.1)
    4 Sec. 13.1. Preemption.
    5 (a) Except as otherwise provided in the Firearm Concealed
    6Carry Act and subsections (b) and (c) of this Section, the The
    7provisions of any ordinance enacted by any municipality which
    8requires registration or imposes greater restrictions or
    9limitations on the acquisition, possession and transfer of
    10firearms than are imposed by this Act, are not invalidated or
    11affected by this Act.
    12 (b) Notwithstanding subsection (a) of this Section, the
    13regulation, licensing, possession, and registration of
    14handguns and ammunition for a handgun, and the transportation
    15of any firearm and ammunition by a holder of a valid Firearm
    16Owner's Identification Card issued by the Department of State
    17Police under this Act are exclusive powers and functions of
    18this State. Any ordinance or regulation, or portion of that
    19ordinance or regulation, enacted on or before the effective
    20date of this amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly that
    21purports to impose regulations or restrictions on a holder of a
    22valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card issued by the
    23Department of State Police under this Act in a manner that is
    24inconsistent with this Act, on the effective date of this
    25amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly, shall be invalid

    Looks to me like both non resident carry and " Container Transport" aka Fanny Pack Carry have state wide preemption.

    Am I reading this wrong?


    Carthago Delenda Est

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    Quote Originally Posted by kurt555gs
    Here is the section about preemption for everything else:
    Looks to me like both non resident carry and " Container Transport" aka Fanny Pack Carry have state wide preemption.
    Am I reading this wrong?
    "Wrong" may be too strong of a word, but I think maybe you didn't read closely enough.
    Note the emphasized parts...

    3 (430 ILCS 65/13.1) (from Ch. 38, par. 83-13.1)
    4 Sec. 13.1. Preemption.
    5 (a) Except as otherwise provided in the Firearm Concealed
    6 Carry Act and subsections (b) and (c) of this Section, the The
    7 provisions of any ordinance enacted by any municipality which
    8 requires registration or imposes greater restrictions or
    9 limitations
    on the acquisition, possession and transfer of
    10 firearms than are imposed by this Act, are not invalidated or
    11 affected by this Act.

    12 (b) Notwithstanding subsection (a) of this Section, the
    13 regulation, licensing, possession, and registration of
    14 handguns and ammunition for a handgun, and the transportation
    15 of any firearm and ammunition by a holder of a valid Firearm
    16 Owner's Identification Card
    issued by the Department of State
    17 Police under this Act are exclusive powers and functions of
    18 this State.

    Any ordinance or regulation, or portion of that
    19 ordinance or regulation, enacted on or before the effective
    20 date of this amendatory Act
    of the 98th General Assembly that
    21 purports to impose regulations or restrictions on a holder of a
    22 valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card
    issued by the
    23 Department of State Police under this Act in a manner that is
    24 inconsistent with this Act, on the effective date of this
    25 amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly, shall be invalid
    So if someone has a FOID (IL resident) preemption applies w/r/t laws passed before this is effective.
    Nothing is stopping Chitcago from re-passing their draconian laws,
    and nothing protects non-residents, even if they have a license.

    I'm hoping that the court looks over this stinking law & proclaims it a pile of steaming excrement for any number of reasons, and IL will have Constitutional Carry (maybe only while an acceptable law is worked out, but maybe forever).

    - It does not provide equal protection under the law, as required by the Constitution. In fact, it creates several classes of people who are treated differently.
    - It treats residents & non-residents severely differently, starting with the fee & including the provisions above.
    - It imposes a disproportionate & unreasonable burden on poorer residents, who are primarily non-white, so has the effect of preventing people who are poor &/or nonwhite &/or Chitcago residents from exercising their right. [Both the fee and the training are excessive, plus people in Chitcago have to travel outside the city to do the range test since Chitcago doesn't allow shooting ranges.]
    - It requires that in order to exercise a right, people must give up other rights (privacy, f'rinstance).

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    Quote Originally Posted by kurt555gs View Post
    Section 90 only deals with preemption of CCL licensees.

    Here is the section about preemption for everything else:


    3 (430 ILCS 65/13.1) (from Ch. 38, par. 83-13.1)
    4 Sec. 13.1. Preemption.
    ...

    Looks to me like both non resident carry and " Container Transport" aka Fanny Pack Carry have state wide preemption.

    Am I reading this wrong?


    Carthago Delenda Est
    No, Here is a cite from the Preemption area of Section 150 of the Firearm Concealed Carry Act, HB183 as amended. I formatted it so it would be easier to read.
    Section 150. The Firearm Owners Identification Card Act is amended (NOTE: this section page 64-126 is 8 pages longer than in SB2193)
    ...
    (NOTE: starting on page 123-125, Preemption details
    Underlined text is new, Strikethru text is deleted/removed)

    (430 ILCS 65/13.1) (from Ch. 38, par. 83-13.1)

    Sec. 13.1. Preemption.

    (a) Except as otherwise provided in the Firearm Concealed Carry Act and subsections (b) and (c) of this Section, the The provisions of any ordinance enacted by any municipality which requires registration or imposes greater restrictions or limitations on the acquisition, possession and transfer of firearms than are imposed by this Act, are not invalidated or affected by this Act.

    (b) Notwithstanding subsection (a) of this Section, the regulation, licensing, possession, and registration of handguns and ammunition for a handgun, and the transportation of any firearm and ammunition by a holder of a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card issued by the Department of State Police under this Act are exclusive powers and functions of this State. Any ordinance or regulation, or portion of that ordinance or regulation, enacted on or before the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly that purports to impose regulations or restrictions on a holder of a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card issued by the Department of State Police under this Act in a manner that is inconsistent with this Act, on the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly, shall be invalid in its application to a holder of valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card issued by the Department of State Police under this Act.

    (c) Notwithstanding subsection (a) of this Section, the regulation of the possession or ownership of assault weapons are exclusive powers and functions of this State. Any ordinance or regulation, or portion of that ordinance or regulation, that purports to regulate the possession or ownership of assault weapons in a manner that is inconsistent with this Act, shall be invalid unless the ordinance or regulation is enacted on, before, or within 10 days after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly. Any ordinance or regulation described in this subsection (c) enacted more than 10 days after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly is invalid. An ordinance enacted on, before, or within 10 days after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly may be amended. The enactment or amendment of ordinances under this subsection (c) are subject to the submission requirements of Section 13.3. For the purposes of this subsection, "assault weapons" means firearms designated by either make or model or by a test or list of cosmetic features that cumulatively would place the firearm into a definition of "assault weapon" under the ordinance.

    (d) For the purposes of this Section, "handgun" has the meaning ascribed to it in Section 5 of the Firearm Concealed Carry Act.

    (e) This Section is a denial and limitation of home rule powers and functions under subsection (h) of Section 6 of Article VII of the Illinois Constitution.
    (Source: P.A. 76-1939.)
    ...
    There is room for confusion here, Section 90 of the Firearms Concealed Carry Act FCCA, preempts laws that affect handguns and ammunition when applied to Illinois CCW licensees. Licensees could eventually be Illinois residents and non-residents.

    Section 150 of the FCCA, there are changes to the Firearm Owners identification Card Act FOICA.

    in Section 13.1(a) of the FOICA it establishes that other than what is spelled out in specific state statutes, other firearms restrictions or limitations are NOT invalidated by preemption.

    Section 13.1(b) of the FOICA Preempts handgun and handgun ammunition regulations on holders of FOID cards. (These people are Illinois residents only)

    Section 13.1(c) is a surprise it Preempts NEW assault weapon regulation enacted 10 days after the FFCA is effective. This assault weapon regulation can be amended at a later date. I predict a scramble to put local assault weapon regulation on the books, within 10 days of the FFCA being effective. It can always be amended later!

    ---------------

    So it appears to me, that the net result can be summarized to

    1. Preemption of local regulation of Handguns & handgun Ammo as applied to Illinois CCW licensees (Section 90 of the FFCA)

    2. Preemption of local regulation of Handguns & handgun Ammo on Holders of FOID (Section 13.1(b) of FOICA. It is not easy to interpret how all the "and" joined phrases should be applied in this area.

    3. Preemption of local regulation of Assault weapons for regulations enacted after 10 days after the effective date of the FFCA (Section 13.1(c)

    I do not see any Preemption of local regulations for someone like myself, a non-resident without an Illinois license. Remember in the Illinois FFCA, the term "licensee" only refers to a holder of an Illinois license to carry a concealed handgun. It does NOT refer to people with a CCW/CCL/Firearms license from another state.


    HB183 Section 5. Definitions
    ...
    "License" means a license issued by the Department of State Police to carry a concealed handgun.

    "Licensee" means a person issued a license to carry a concealed handgun.
    ...
    Last edited by E6chevron; 06-04-2013 at 05:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurt555gs View Post
    Looks to me like both non resident carry and " Container Transport" aka Fanny Pack Carry have state wide preemption. Am I reading this wrong?
    I believe so. The section you quoted applies only to FOID holders. FOIDs are not issued to non-residents. Ergo, it does not preempt local ordinances that purport to restrict carry by non-FOID holders like non-residents.

    As an aside, that section also lets Chicago keep its assault weapon ban.

    Now I know why two apparently redundant preemption sections bothered me. Can they be construed to interact in such a way that restrictions on non-FOID apply even if that person has a CCL?
    Last edited by randian; 06-03-2013 at 05:42 PM.

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    Non residents that have an out of state permit or that are of age and resided in an un-licensed open carry state CAN carry a loaded HANDGUN in their car with state wide preemtion. The old law on transport also said FOID card holders buy that was struck down and the State Police had to post on their website that unloaded and in a case was the same for non residents.

    http://goo.gl/eNFvg

    Also there were last minute sneaky changes. Make sure you quote the text from the law that actually passed. I was confused by this too. Get it from the Illinois legislature website. ( I saw a post above from an old version, not the one that passed )



    This law is still a Steaming Pile of Poo (tm)

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    MKEgal, you stated

    "- It does not provide equal protection under the law, as required by the Constitution. In fact, it creates several classes of people who are treated differently.
    - It treats residents & non-residents severely differently, starting with the fee & including the provisions above.
    - It imposes a disproportionate & unreasonable burden on poorer residents, who are primarily non-white, so has the effect of preventing people who are poor &/or nonwhite &/or Chitcago residents from exercising their right. [Both the fee and the training are excessive, plus people in Chitcago have to travel outside the city to do the range test since Chitcago doesn't allow shooting ranges.]
    - It requires that in order to exercise a right, people must give up other rights (privacy, f'rinstance)."

    Yes that was this law's intent. You hit the nail on the head. If they wanted to be fair, they would have passed HB997.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kurt555gs View Post
    Non residents that have an out of state permit or that are of age and resided in an un-licensed open carry state CAN carry a loaded HANDGUN in their car with state wide preemtion. The old law on transport also said FOID card holders buy that was struck down and the State Police had to post on their website that unloaded and in a case was the same for non residents.

    http://goo.gl/eNFvg

    Also there were last minute sneaky changes. Make sure you quote the text from the law that actually passed. I was confused by this too. Get it from the Illinois legislature website. ( I saw a post above from an old version, not the one that passed )

    This law is still a Steaming Pile of Poo (tm)
    If you notice any incorrect citations you should point them out specifically, so we can all get the correct info.

    You should cite these preemptions from home rule ordinances & laws, that apply to people without FOID card or FFCA license. Getting the links from the Illinois legislature website is a good idea, that's what I have done, documented and linked to.

    I call the "last minute sneaky changes" Senate Floor Amendments 6 and 7, although the replacement Senate Floor Amendment 5 was also filed on the same day the entire bill was passed. Everything about this bill was last minute.
    Last edited by E6chevron; 06-03-2013 at 06:33 PM.
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