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Thread: Camping at Shenandoah National Park

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    Camping at Shenandoah National Park

    So, what exactly are the rules regarding handguns in a national park in Virginia? We may be planning a camping trip to Shenandoah next summer and I wanted to make sure I was within the law if I take my gun with me.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amtilton17 View Post
    So, what exactly are the rules regarding handguns in a national park in Virginia? We may be planning a camping trip to Shenandoah next summer and I wanted to make sure I was within the law if I take my gun with me.
    NPS (Nat'l Park Service) lands follow the law of the state in which they are located.

    http://www.nps.gov/shen/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm

    Amendment on Guns in National Parks:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_CARD_Act_of_2009

    Do not confuse Nat'l Parks with Nat'l Forest lands - the two often are side by side. In Nat'l Forests, it is only permissible to OC during set hunting seasons.
    http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_...rdb5066182.pdf
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    NPS (Nat'l Park Service) lands follow the law of the state in which they are located.

    http://www.nps.gov/shen/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm

    Amendment on Guns in National Parks:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_CARD_Act_of_2009

    Do not confuse Nat'l Parks with Nat'l Forest lands - the two often are side by side. In Nat'l Forests, it is only permissible to OC during set hunting seasons.
    http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_...rdb5066182.pdf

    I could not find VA regulations on firearms in state or national parks. Does anybody know what is legal in Virginia regarding parks? OC, CC? Permit or no permit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by amtilton17 View Post
    I could not find VA regulations on firearms in state or national parks. Does anybody know what is legal in Virginia regarding parks? OC, CC? Permit or no permit?
    OC and CC is legal. As Grapeshot said, if it's legal at downtown Virginia, it's legal in the National Park. You cannot carry in buildings that house Park Staff. They have to be marked.

    There is some controversy about long guns. Slung is OK but the Park Officials have the opinion that hand carried is brandishing and therefore illegal under Va law.

    http://news.oldva.org/?p=19061



    State Parks:
    http://hrblogs.typepad.com/the_shad_...+Shad+Plank%29

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    OC and CC is legal. As Grapeshot said, if it's legal at downtown Virginia, it's legal in the National Park. You cannot carry in buildings that house Park Staff. They have to be marked.

    There is some controversy about long guns. Slung is OK but the Park Officials have the opinion that hand carried is brandishing and therefore illegal under Va law.

    http://news.oldva.org/?p=19061



    State Parks:
    http://hrblogs.typepad.com/the_shad_...+Shad+Plank%29

    Gotcha. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amtilton17 View Post
    I could not find VA regulations on firearms in state or national parks. Does anybody know what is legal in Virginia regarding parks? OC, CC? Permit or no permit?
    I'm sorry - seeing that you are located in Va, I thought you would be familiar with our preemption law:
    15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.
    A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+15.2-915
    Concealed carry requires a CHP, OC does not require a permit in Virginia, subject to private property rules and restricted by law persons.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I'm sorry - seeing that you are located in Va, I thought you would be familiar with our preemption law:


    Concealed carry requires a CHP, OC does not require a permit in Virginia, subject to private property rules and restricted by law persons.
    I am aware of the preemption. I just wasnt sure if va had any state laws specifically for parks like they do for schools courts churches and government buildings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amtilton17 View Post
    I am aware of the preemption. I just wasnt sure if va had any state laws specifically for parks like they do for schools courts churches and government buildings.
    Ah well yes, a short primer on 15.2-915 - preemption is in order.

    State agencies are not covered by preemption.

    K-12 schools are GFZ. Here is a link to all of the aspects of guns and schools:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...hools-and-guns

    Churches are not restricted if one has "good and sufficient reason"
    http://cursesfoiledagain2.wordpress....uns-in-church/
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    State parks have a long and annoying history. McDonnell did his best to back away from his promise to allow OC in State Parks.

    Grapeshot with VCDL spearheaded the fight while McDonnell got some not so gentle pushes from elsewhere. He finally blinked.
    Here is part of the story that led up to the freedom we have now.

    http://news.oldva.org/?page_id=3709
    Last edited by peter nap; 06-02-2013 at 11:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    State parks have a long and annoying history. McDonnell did his best to back away from his promise to allow OC in State Parks.

    Grapeshot with VCDL spearheaded the fight while McDonnell got some not so gentle pushes from elsewhere. He finally blinked.
    Here is part of the story that led up to the freedom we have now.

    http://news.oldva.org/?page_id=3709

    State Forests
    was the protracted battle Peter and I was only a bit player in that drawn out seige. I seem to remember seeing you there everytime a peeked in the window.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post

    State Forests
    was the protracted battle Peter and I was only a bit player in that drawn out seige. I seem to remember seeing you there everytime a peeked in the window.
    Hmmmm...I'd better take my Geritol, it was the forests wasn't it.
    I have the proof about you though, if you recall I had a camera

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    State Parks

    The change results from an order issued late last week by Gov. Bob McDonnell directing the Department of Conservation and Recreation to cease enforcement of the ban.


    In a letter to Conservation and Recreation Director David A. Johnson dated Jan. 14 (2012), McDonnell said he relies on an opinion he issued in 2008, when he was attorney general, on whether the department had authorization to enact a ban.
    http://www.wsls.com/story/20838752/m...in-state-parks
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-03-2013 at 05:44 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Just got back from a few days at Big Meadows. Here's my observations: the Lodge and Wayside, as well as Skyland are ok, since they're under the control of and staffed by, the concessionaire, and not federal employees. The Visitors' Center, on the other hand, is staffed by NPS personnel, and is therefore a "federal facility" - I didn't see any markings on the outside of the building, but I wouldn't go in there with a gun.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Just got back from a few days at Big Meadows. Here's my observations: the Lodge and Wayside, as well as Skyland are ok, since they're under the control of and staffed by, the concessionaire, and not federal employees. The Visitors' Center, on the other hand, is staffed by NPS personnel, and is therefore a "federal facility" - I didn't see any markings on the outside of the building, but I wouldn't go in there with a gun.
    Federal law prohibits firearms in “federal facilities,” which are generally defined as federally-owned or-leased buildings where federal employees work on a regular basis. Buildings that meet this definition will have signs posted at public entrances noting the prohibition on firearms.

    Federal law (Sec. 512 of P.L. 111-24), effective February 22, 2010, makes national parks – and national
    wildlife refuges – subject to applicable federal, state, and local firearms laws. The law is a provision of the Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009.

    Then there is this:
    http://www.nps.gov/grca/parkmgmt/upload/Firearms-in-IMRparks2-2010.pdf
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-15-2013 at 10:07 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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