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Thread: OC in Pittsburgh

  1. #1
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    OC in Pittsburgh

    I'm looking to attend an event in Pittsburgh with some friends. It will likely consist of a small group of nerds sitting in a Starbucks hacking for a few hours.

    As far a I can tell, I can legally carry in PA the same as I can in VA. I'll have to unload and case my sidearm in VA before passing through Maryland, but can should be covered under FOPA and can re-arm once I cross back out of occupied territory.

    Is there anything I need to know, other than that there is no law prohibiting carry?

    Here in VA, I've been carrying a VCDL handout with me to give to the curious, and if it ever comes to that, to law enforcement should I be challenged due to lack of knowledge. Is there something similar for PA?

  2. #2
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndsy Simon View Post
    I'm looking to attend an event in Pittsburgh with some friends. It will likely consist of a small group of nerds sitting in a Starbucks hacking for a few hours.

    As far a I can tell, I can legally carry in PA the same as I can in VA. I'll have to unload and case my sidearm in VA before passing through Maryland, but can should be covered under FOPA and can re-arm once I cross back out of occupied territory.

    Is there anything I need to know, other than that there is no law prohibiting carry?

    Here in VA, I've been carrying a VCDL handout with me to give to the curious, and if it ever comes to that, to law enforcement should I be challenged due to lack of knowledge. Is there something similar for PA?
    Pittsburgh police attend the yearly MPOETC training, so they know open carry is legal. If you're in to civil rights, not just firearms, PA is NOT a "stop and ID" state. You have normally have obligation to provide ID, unless Pennsylvania is in a state of emergency. Make sure you have your VA CCW license on you at all times.

    PA is currently in a "state of emergency." A state of emergency can only last 90 days unless renewed by the governor.

    http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...lamations/4725

    (2013 Proclamation #2.0) Dauphin County Bridge May 9, 2013.pdf

    18 Pa.C.S. 6107: Prohibited conduct during emergency
    (a) General rule.--No person shall carry a firearm upon the public streets or upon any public property during an emergency proclaimed by a State or municipal governmental executive unless that person is:
    (1) Actively engaged in a defense of that person's life or property from peril or threat.
    (2) Licensed to carry firearms under section 6109 (relating to licenses) or is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).
    (b) Seizure, taking and confiscation.--Except as otherwise provided under subsection (a) and notwithstanding the provisions of 35 Pa.C.S. Ch. 73 (relating to Commonwealth services) or any other provision of law to the contrary, no firearm, accessory or ammunition may be seized, taken or confiscated during an emergency unless the seizure, taking or confiscation would be authorized absent the emergency.
    (c) Definitions.--As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:
    "Accessory." Any scope, sight, bipod, sling, light, magazine, clip or other related item that is attached to or necessary for the operation of a firearm.
    "Firearm." The term includes any weapon that is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any weapon.



    CHAPTER 73
    COMMONWEALTH SERVICES
    7301. General authority of Governor.

    c) Declaration of disaster emergency.--A disaster emergency
    shall be declared by executive order or proclamation of the
    Governor upon finding that a disaster has occurred or that the
    occurrence or the threat of a disaster is imminent. The state of
    disaster emergency shall continue until the Governor finds that
    the threat or danger has passed or the disaster has been dealt
    with to the extent that emergency conditions no longer exist and
    terminates the state of disaster emergency by executive order or
    proclamation, but no state of disaster emergency may continue
    for longer than 90 days unless renewed by the Governor.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Good to know - but why would I need a VA CWP?

    First, I don't have one yet. I recently moved here and have applied for it, but I don't have it at the moment. Second, VA's CWP doesn't even have a photo on it. It's a piece of printer paper, perforated on two edges and stamped with a raised seal. It might do me more harm than good

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndsy Simon View Post
    Good to know - but why would I need a VA CWP?

    First, I don't have one yet. I recently moved here and have applied for it, but I don't have it at the moment. Second, VA's CWP doesn't even have a photo on it. It's a piece of printer paper, perforated on two edges and stamped with a raised seal. It might do me more harm than good
    You said, "here in VA" so I assumed you lived in VA. As the statute I posted states, during a state of emergency you need to be licensed to carry a firearm(LTCF or a reciprocal state). Virginia is a reciprocal state, they've an agreement with Pennsylvania.

    If you want to carry in PA during the current state of emergency, you need to be license.

    6109. Licenses.
    (redacted sections)

    k) Reciprocity.
    (1) The Attorney General shall have the power and duty to enter into reciprocity agreements with other states providing for the mutual recognition of a license to carry a firearm issued by the Commonwealth and a license or permit to carry a firearm issued by the other state. To carry out this duty, the Attorney General is authorized to negotiate reciprocity agreements and grant recognition of a license or permit to carry a firearm issued by another state.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    You said, "here in VA" so I assumed you lived in VA. As the statute I posted states, during a state of emergency you need to be licensed to carry a firearm(LTCF or a reciprocal state). Virginia is a reciprocal state, they've an agreement with Pennsylvania.

    If you want to carry in PA during the current state of emergency, you need to be license.

    6109. Licenses.
    (redacted sections)

    k) Reciprocity.
    (1) The Attorney General shall have the power and duty to enter into reciprocity agreements with other states providing for the mutual recognition of a license to carry a firearm issued by the Commonwealth and a license or permit to carry a firearm issued by the other state. To carry out this duty, the Attorney General is authorized to negotiate reciprocity agreements and grant recognition of a license or permit to carry a firearm issued by another state.
    There's a state of emergency in PA?

  6. #6
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndsy Simon View Post
    There's a state of emergency in PA?
    Yes, if you read my reply to your post, you'd have seen this link.

    http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...lamations/4725

    There is a state of emergency, read the link, read the proclamation. I've rarely seen a state of emergency withdrawn, therefore the state of emergency will last 90 days.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Regular Member Tacitus42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    Yes, if you read my reply to your post, you'd have seen this link.

    http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...lamations/4725

    There is a state of emergency, read the link, read the proclamation. I've rarely seen a state of emergency withdrawn, therefore the state of emergency will last 90 days.
    Quite the tolerant bigot aren't we?
    "Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms." Josey Wales

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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    Yes, if you read my reply to your post, you'd have seen this link.

    http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...lamations/4725

    There is a state of emergency, read the link, read the proclamation. I've rarely seen a state of emergency withdrawn, therefore the state of emergency will last 90 days.
    The site you linked isn't properly built, and I couldn't view it.

  9. #9
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacitus42 View Post
    Quite the tolerant bigot aren't we?
    Intolerance against intolerance is the best way to cancel intolerance. Like racists, if you exclude them from society, they'll eventually figure out their behavior is unwanted and unwarranted.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  10. #10
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndsy Simon View Post
    The site you linked isn't properly built, and I couldn't view it.
    Ah okay.

    Here's a screenshot what it looks like on most up to date browsers. I did notice the PDFs won't open on Chrome.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	PA Governor Proclamations.jpg 
Views:	72 
Size:	94.6 KB 
ID:	10486


    Here's the actual proclamation from the site

    (2013_proclamation__2_0)_dauphin_county_bridge_may_9,_2013.pdf
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    Ah okay.

    Here's a screenshot what it looks like on most up to date browsers. I did notice the PDFs won't open on Chrome.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	PA Governor Proclamations.jpg 
Views:	72 
Size:	94.6 KB 
ID:	10486


    Here's the actual proclamation from the site

    (2013_proclamation__2_0)_dauphin_county_bridge_may_9,_2013.pdf
    Gotchya. The PDF doesn't open from their site in Chrome, Firefox, Safari, or Opera for me.

    Without that information, it appeared that the "state of emergency" existed only in Dauphin County.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    Intolerance against intolerance is the best way to cancel intolerance. Like racists, if you exclude them from society, they'll eventually figure out their behavior is unwanted and unwarranted.
    My experience has been the opposite, in fact - that the ostracism of a group only reinforces their aberrant behavior, further distancing their perspective from that of society.

    You run the risk of confirmation bias; those who see a "gay agenda" will find one when they discover that individuals are working to exclude them from greater society.
    Last edited by Lyndsy Simon; 06-04-2013 at 02:23 PM.

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    Re: OC in Pittsburgh

    So, because I'm not smart, a bridge broke and the entire state is under a state of emergency as a result?

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

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    Short version: Bridges on I-81 @ US 22/322 near Harrisburg gets crisped in a fire following a deisel tanker spill. Traffic is snarled due to detours. Governor declares state of emergency due to impact on both local traffic/commerce/commuting and impact om commerce along the Atlantic coast, and so that PA can ask for federal $$ to cover some of the costs of tearing down and replacing the bridges. State of emergency, says Governor, is expected to last until bridges are replaced. PA only allow a state of emergency for 90 days - so look for a follow-on declaration every 3 months for the several years it will take to tear apart a major interstate intersection involving fly-overs and cloverleafs.

    Shorter version: Traffic in/near Harrisburg is fubared for the forseeable future. Expect to be in congested, slower traffic regardless of what route you take around Harrisburg.

    stay safe.
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  15. #15
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndsy Simon View Post
    Gotchya. The PDF doesn't open from their site in Chrome, Firefox, Safari, or Opera for me.

    Without that information, it appeared that the "state of emergency" existed only in Dauphin County.
    Unfortunately an isolated incident affects us all due to the governor's decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndsy Simon View Post
    My experience has been the opposite, in fact - that the ostracism of a group only reinforces their aberrant behavior, further distancing their perspective from that of society.

    You run the risk of confirmation bias; those who see a "gay agenda" will find one when they discover that individuals are working to exclude them from greater society.
    Then America is suffering from a big case of "gay agenda" much as France right now, except we don't have riots in the US. Companies were pulling all funding and landlords not renewing contracts for Boy scouts, gay marriage, people are even closing up shop due to gay marriage, the list goes on.

    Much like the iconic photos I see of restaurants closing shop after the Civil Rights Act of 1965, I see a few businesses pulling this:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lester_Maddox.jpg 
Views:	69 
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    And you know what, nothing of value was lost.

    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...-trolley-owner

    The fact is we have no civil protection in the workplace for people who are LGBT, thus my logic sets to not hire/agree to hire people who are anti-LGBT. You can be lawfully pinkslipped because of you sexual orientation, and that's not right.

    You want to know why I started having this stance since 2009?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fe...hip_and_Uganda

    American Evangelicals affecting other countries, trying to get laws passed to EXECUTE gay people. Google for "Uganda execute gays" for more information.
    Last edited by david.ross; 06-04-2013 at 11:29 PM. Reason: Added in the Lester Maddox cafe
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    Unfortunately an isolated incident affects us all due to the governor's decision.



    Then America is suffering from a big case of "gay agenda" much as France right now, except we don't have riots in the US. Companies were pulling all funding and landlords not renewing contracts for Boy scouts, gay marriage, people are even closing up shop due to gay marriage, the list goes on.

    Much like the iconic photos I see of restaurants closing shop after the Civil Rights Act of 1965, I see a few businesses pulling this:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lester_Maddox.jpg 
Views:	69 
Size:	43.3 KB 
ID:	10494

    And you know what, nothing of value was lost.

    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...-trolley-owner

    The fact is we have no civil protection in the workplace for people who are LGBT, thus my logic sets to not hire/agree to hire people who are anti-LGBT. You can be lawfully pinkslipped because of you sexual orientation, and that's not right.

    You want to know why I started having this stance since 2009?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fe...hip_and_Uganda

    American Evangelicals affecting other countries, trying to get laws passed to EXECUTE gay people. Google for "Uganda execute gays" for more information.
    I just don't think we're going to agree on this. If a business doesn't want to hire or retain someone, they shouldn't be forced to. Period. It doesn't matter upon what basis they decide that, forcing a person to hire someone they don't want to is evil of the highest order.

    That has nothing to do with homosexuality. It's not my business what consenting adults do. From a firearms advocacy perspective, there are few groups I can think of that need the ability to defend themselves more urgently than openly gay and lesbian couples, particularly in areas where their lifestyle is subject to scorn in the public eye.

    As for your last point... well, to steal a phrase I've heard elsewhere, statists gonna state.

  17. #17
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndsy Simon View Post
    I just don't think we're going to agree on this. If a business doesn't want to hire or retain someone, they shouldn't be forced to. Period. It doesn't matter upon what basis they decide that, forcing a person to hire someone they don't want to is evil of the highest order.

    That has nothing to do with homosexuality. It's not my business what consenting adults do. From a firearms advocacy perspective, there are few groups I can think of that need the ability to defend themselves more urgently than openly gay and lesbian couples, particularly in areas where their lifestyle is subject to scorn in the public eye.

    As for your last point... well, to steal a phrase I've heard elsewhere, statists gonna state.
    A business can't fire someone over the status of a certain set of classes. In many states, they are a "at will" employment. Since we have protected classes, we might as well add another since our society is always in a state of flux.

    I can't think of any groups in the United States which are currently at more risk than other groups right now due to the political climate.

    Both of these occurred in a small timeline of each other.
    First Couple:
    http://www.myfoxny.com/story/2217954...e-bias-assault

    Second Couple attacked:
    http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...206950961.html

    You see, right now, currently, as of this moment, LGBT are more at risk than other groups due to states passing more marriage laws and there will be more LGBT individuals attacked if/when SCOTUS comes out this month with the results of the cases currently being decided by SCOTUS.

    I for one will continue my efforts at full force to eliminate social persecution in the workplace, it will not be tolerated.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    A business can't fire someone over the status of a certain set of classes. In many states, they are a "at will" employment. Since we have protected classes, we might as well add another since our society is always in a state of flux.

    I can't think of any groups in the United States which are currently at more risk than other groups right now due to the political climate.

    Both of these occurred in a small timeline of each other.
    First Couple:
    http://www.myfoxny.com/story/2217954...e-bias-assault

    Second Couple attacked:
    http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...206950961.html

    You see, right now, currently, as of this moment, LGBT are more at risk than other groups due to states passing more marriage laws and there will be more LGBT individuals attacked if/when SCOTUS comes out this month with the results of the cases currently being decided by SCOTUS.

    I for one will continue my efforts at full force to eliminate social persecution in the workplace, it will not be tolerated.
    I understand the law, and know what classes are protected - I simply disagree with the law on moral grounds. Further, the problem is one that is adequately addressed without government intervention; a business that chooses to place arbitrary restrictions on the size of its labor pool increases the cost of its labor proportionately, while simulataneously lowering the quality of its workforce.

    As for the two instances linked - I completely agree with you, and that's a separate issue. Individuals who reasonably believe they may be the target of violence should be able to defend themselves.

    Using government's monopoly of the use of violent coercion to eliminate "social persecution" is abhorrent.

    ETA: I'd also like to point out that those anti-discrimination laws are ineffective. Aside from being simply ignored, even though it is illegal to fire you for being gay, it is completely legal for an employer to fire you for advocating legislative protection of gay marriage. Political affiliation is not a protected class at the federal level or for any of state of which I'm aware.
    Last edited by Lyndsy Simon; 06-06-2013 at 08:44 AM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndsy Simon View Post
    Using government's monopoly of the use of violent coercion to eliminate "social persecution" is abhorrent.

    ETA: I'd also like to point out that those anti-discrimination laws are ineffective. Aside from being simply ignored, even though it is illegal to fire you for being gay, it is completely legal for an employer to fire you for advocating legislative protection of gay marriage. Political affiliation is not a protected class at the federal level or for any of state of which I'm aware.
    If the government didn't step in, we'd still have cafes which don't serve blacks.

    Also, there are only 29 states and no federal protections regarding employees who are LGBT, in many states a person could be fired for their sexual orientation.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    If the government didn't step in, we'd still have cafes which don't serve blacks.

    Also, there are only 29 states and no federal protections regarding employees who are LGBT, in many states a person could be fired for their sexual orientation.
    I wouldn't eat at those cafes. Would you?

    I'm not a one-issue kinda guy. I'm an advocate for Liberty - and while that means I don't believe any group should recieve a special "marriage" condition under the law, it also means that I believe the law shouldn't used to decide who gets to enter someone's private property. The basis of the property owner's decision is irrelevant to the fact that asserting right of ownership over the actual legitimate property owner is immoral.

    The only difference between agents of government enforcing desegregation and a mob enforcing segregation is that only the former is currently legal. Both are examples of force wielded against individuals to force them to deny them their natural rights.

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david.ross View Post
    If the government didn't step in, we'd still have cafes which don't serve blacks...
    Yes, that's true. So the better choice is to have government further devalue private property rights, right?

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