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Thread: OCer arrested in West Haven for refusing to show permit

  1. #1
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    OCer arrested in West Haven for refusing to show permit

    http://www.courant.com/community/wes...,1642797.story


    Police arrested a 34-year-old man whose pistol, fastened to his hip, was visible as he walked along the beach boardwalk on Sunday, police said.
    Frightened individuals approached officers and pointed out Scott Lazurek and another person, both of whom were armed.
    The officers asked to see their pistol permits. Lazurek refused to display his permit. He was charged with interfering with police.
    His firearm was seized and his permit has been sent to the state police licensing unit for revocation. The individual with Lazurek complied with officers, police said.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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    what's the point of the second amendment if they can just walk up to you and take your gun?

    this could have been a single instance of a large, full scale effort by the government to take away our guns to leave us defenseless.

    how is one to know ?

    nothing wrong with the actions of the guy.

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    Here we go - 4th amendment question - can police demand to see license absent reasonable suspicison of crime affot.

    S. Ct. said no in Delaware v. Prause (police violate 4th amendment if, absent reasonable suspicion of crime afoot, they stop a vehicle driver just to check for a driver's license).

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Here we go - 4th amendment question - can police demand to see license absent reasonable suspicison of crime affot.

    S. Ct. said no in Delaware v. Prause (police violate 4th amendment if, absent reasonable suspicion of crime afoot, they stop a vehicle driver just to check for a driver's license).
    I smell a big payday at tax payer expense....

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    Scott, a long time friend to me attempted to meet with an attorney who shall remain nameless at this moment. This attorney refused an initial consultation unless he forked over $350.
    Keep this in mind when OCing. It cost money to fight stupidity!

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    OCer arrested in West Haven for refusing to show permit

    Quote Originally Posted by CTSurvivor View Post
    Scott, a long time friend to me attempted to meet with an attorney who shall remain nameless at this moment. This attorney refused an initial consultation unless he forked over $350.
    Keep this in mind when OCing. It cost money to fight stupidity!
    Indeed, and we remind people about this constantly. No one should be expected to work for free, and few typically do.

    $350 is well spent if the facts are true, and it is going to cost a lot more depending on how far the prosecution takes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTSurvivor View Post
    Scott, a long time friend to me attempted to meet with an attorney who shall remain nameless at this moment. This attorney refused an initial consultation unless he forked over $350.
    Keep this in mind when OCing. It cost money to fight stupidity!
    $350 ! You can file a compliant for that ! Just copy-paste a successful one, changing names and dates etc .. monkey see, monkey do ...

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    Another lame suggestion by David Godbout aka davidmcbeth

    davidmcbeth,

    You've got to be kidding or just posting information to again add to you post totals.

    It is a lame suggestion that someone file a federal or state case pro se if they don't have any legal experience or support.

    Are you going to offer your time and expertise to assist the individual in all the aspects of federal or state litigation or send him forward on his own?

    How many hours or days will he be required to miss from work to prosecute his civil case?

    Will any defendant's require that he post a bond?

    What is his current financial situation which the court would or could consider in lowering his court costs?

    Without knowing the individuals, their resources, or their understanding of the courts, it is insane to suggest that they file a lawsuit without legal counsel.

    As for the criminal charges, the first step is to address the arrest based on the facts available in an attempt to get a dismissal on the charges without conditions.

    I agree that there is NO stop and identifyin CT but also know that law enforcement officers are not trained in firearm related law.

    The individual should first request legal and financial assistance from the state groups that have solicited and raised funds for legal purposes I know that both the CCDL and Coalition of Connecticut Sportsmen have publicized seperately and now as a group, the fact that they have raised substantial fundsfor legal matters.
    Last edited by Edward Peruta; 06-04-2013 at 07:49 AM.

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    Well, if a person has limited $$$ and no lawyer will take on the case on consignment and no one is going to help them when what is that person's option?

    Filing pro se is the option or dropping the matter all together.

    Easy? No. Extremely difficult? No. Time consuming? All depends on the pro se litigant ~ it can be extremely time consuming with dozens of court appearances ~ or it can only require a few days in court. Some motions and requests can be done on take papers in CT...so one can mitigate the time needed for court appearances.

    Lawyers like to say that special skills are needed but in reality the skill set is just one of understanding basic concepts and having the ability to read an comprehend the written language. For a couple of counts in a complaint .. minimal case law is usually needed to be found. Lawyers go to law school to prepare them for any type of case ~ a pro se litigant is usually looking a a sliver of the possible types of case that can be filed and of a very focused cause of actions.

    And most civil cases are settled before trial ~ so one only needs to get over the dismissals and summary judgment phases pre-trial and get through discovery.

    The CT Practice Book is online, case files of similar types of causes of action are usually available for review, etc.

    As with most jobs, the skill set needed to be in the job is wide ... like a plumber~I'm not a plumber. But I did remove and install a new boiler...a single task that a plumber learns formally and one that would have cost me $$$ to expend to hire a plumber. But an average person could do this if they wanted to or had to.

    The OP balked at paying $350 ... if he has limited funds then filing pro se is an option to consider.

    Facts are facts and the law is the law ... these are both factual things. If you can show facts at trial to support your counts then that's all anyone can be expected - high priced lawyers, low priced lawyers, pro se litigants.

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    "If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you." Last line of the Miranda warning. Public defender might not be the best legal representation but it's better than none at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Peruta View Post

    The individual should first request legal and financial assistance from the state groups that have solicited and raised funds for legal purposes I know that both the CCDL and Coalition of Connecticut Sportsmen have publicized seperately and now as a group, the fact that they have raised substantial fundsfor legal matters.
    The gentleman can certainly look to others for help. The guy should post results of asking for this assistance.

    People file pro-se cases everyday throughout the USA. Maybe the guy can do it, maybe not. I don't personally know the guy. But I cannot say that he can't and offered the suggestion.

    For me, civil suits are all about $$$. Not to "teach a lesson" not to "clear my name" ... except for admin review cases (zoning etc.) against a governmental party ~ otherwise its all about $$$. So the guy should look and see how much $$$ would he win. Any case that has facts to support the claims could get a small chunk of change just to settle. It costs $$$$ (for those with lawyers) to take a case from nothing to the end of a trial. It costs much much less for a pro se litigant. One can always start pro se and then get a lawyer too...so self representation is not a all-or-nothing proposition.

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    maybe the outcome of this will force the state police to issue a new memo informing officers of the ILLEGALITY of demanding to see a permit and arresting if refused. which would be another step in the right direction.
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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    maybe the outcome of this will force the state police to issue a new memo informing officers of the ILLEGALITY of demanding to see a permit and arresting if refused. which would be another step in the right direction.
    That depends on the arrestee.
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    Does anyone know if they had the June 18th court date? Just curious what the outcome of this will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H8Rain View Post
    Does anyone know if they had the June 18th court date? Just curious what the outcome of this will be.
    Continued to next week.... http://www.jud2.ct.gov/crdockets/Cas...0-b1b24e0fbca5
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    Im kind of torn here. On bike nights in downtown Memphis, officers will check everyone for M endorsement and insurance which is kind of annoying but they seem to catch a lot of people without them. If an officer just wants to make sure you are properly trained and permitted to carry the firearm, what is the big deal? At the same time though, i wouldn't want to be harassed just because i have a firearm. Cops don't pull me over just because i'm sitting in a fast car at a stop light and i "could" speed. There are definitely pros and cons to each side of it.

    Of course i do live in the South and this is an unlikely scenario of people "pointing" at you because you have a firearm, however we are required to show the permit to an LEO upon request.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    There are definitely pros and cons to each side of it.
    There is only one side. That is the side of liberty. Ends do not justify means.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    Im kind of torn here. On bike nights in downtown Memphis, officers will check everyone for M endorsement and insurance which is kind of annoying but they seem to catch a lot of people without them. If an officer just wants to make sure you are properly trained and permitted to carry the firearm, what is the big deal? At the same time though, i wouldn't want to be harassed just because i have a firearm. Cops don't pull me over just because i'm sitting in a fast car at a stop light and i "could" speed. There are definitely pros and cons to each side of it.

    Of course i do live in the South and this is an unlikely scenario of people "pointing" at you because you have a firearm, however we are required to show the permit to an LEO upon request.
    We have a constitutional right to bear (carry) arms. Nowhere in the Bill of Rights is the right to ride a motorcycle specified.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    what is the big deal? .
    how about they come into your house to check for violations of the law ... after all, they'll catch people then too

    checkpoints, stops, w/o even having any suspicion that the guy is a criminal is simply wrong.

    you want to be stopped how often? daily, hourly, every 10 min? Me? Never.

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    Regular Member reddn's Avatar
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    Re: OCer arrested in West Haven for refusing to show permit

    Quote Originally Posted by SwampLedge View Post
    We have a constitutional right to bear (carry) arms. Nowhere in the Bill of Rights is the right to ride a motorcycle specified.
    Yeah, I'm from out of state, but how does riding a motorcycle effects your 4th amendment rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    Of course i do live in the South and this is an unlikely scenario of people "pointing" at you because you have a firearm, however we are required to show the permit to an LEO upon request.
    The difference in CT is that we have no such requirement to show the permit upon demand. We are only required to carry the permit on our person - CGS 29-35 (b) The holder of a permit issued pursuant to section 29-28 shall carry such permit upon one's person while carrying such pistol or revolver.

    Furthermore, failure to carry the permit on your person is an infraction punishable by a $35 fine.

    Some of our officers are acting as though we are a "stop-and-ID" state even though we have no such law.
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    CASE DISMISSED.....was offered a Nolle, he refused stating a full dismissal was all he would take and the prosecutor dropped the case completely.
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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brk913 View Post
    CASE DISMISSED.....was offered a Nolle, he refused stating a full dismissal was all he would take and the prosecutor dropped the case completely.
    I wish he would have stayed in touch instead of ignoring us. Would be nice to have a transcript and recording.
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    He should have gotten a public apology from the idiot officers also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    I wish he would have stayed in touch instead of ignoring us. Would be nice to have a transcript and recording.
    Should not be hard to find the case ... as for a transcript, that costs some $$$ ~ $100 maybe? I doubt the OP would pay for one ... maybe at his civil hearing...if he opts to go that way...

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