Is a .44 Super Blackhawk acceptable for open carry?

mobiushky · Jun 4, 2013

WalkingWolf said:
Please keep in mind the word "my", anything after that your rant is extremely foolish, as you have no control over how others choose. I see control issues as more of a problem in society than a shortage of ammo. But that is just my opinion.

I don't think you quite followed my rant. In no way did I imply that anyone was trying to limit me in this thread. I was commenting on the point that people who have no limits would choose to limit themselves arbitrarily without outside intervention. Removing the political, legal, and emotional aspect, it's like deciding to walk in the desert and saying on your own that you would rather just take a 500ml bottle of water with you when no one is preventing you from taking a 2l pack of water. I can't personally wrap my own personal head around the idea of intentionally choosing, without any outside factors, to limit my ability to defend myself by arbitrarily limiting what I carry.

There are a lot of the "one shot with a .44 will stop the guy so you'll never need to reload" type thoughts being stated in this thread. (honestly and sincerely not pointing any fingers at anyone.) That's a mind set I cannot comprehend. I mean, let's be honest, if you had a way to comfortably carry a firearm that has 25 rounds of .44Mag and can be easily used, wouldn't you? Insert what ever round caliber you want in there. I mean, if I could easily control a .500 S&W with combat accurate follow-up shots in rapid succession and have a capacity of 30 rounds, I'd love that. It's that limit that is really hard for me to understand. You could be carrying 20-30 rounds. But to choose to limit to 6 because you like a gun? (PS, not you personally Wolf, just a generic "you" in the sense of any person.)

BTW, his has nothing to do with carrying a pocket gun or small frame pistol for concealment. So I'm not talking about XDs, diamondback, Nano, etc, etc where you're similarly limited in rounds. I'm talking any full sized open carry firearm.

Also, no one should take my rant as a personal attack at all. I am fully aware that this is my opinion and only mine. I honestly don't care what people carry or how. I'm just happy that people are. But I'm also not "enamored" with any magic bullet theory that a bullet is a magic go to sleep pill that makes the BG stop existing with nothing by a single shot.

WalkingWolf · Jun 4, 2013

To be blunt it really does not matter how YOU feel about it, and the OP never mentioned about one shot stops, though with a 44 it was bound to come up. The fact is rounds that bounce on the pavement, hit walls, hit innocent bystanders never stop anybody. OTH a well placed 44 round has been know to bring down bears. But please follow the NYPD lead, load up some 50 round Glock magazines and shoot everything in hopes of hitting your bad guy. Yea that makes a lot of sense. :lol:

marshaul · Jun 4, 2013

mobiushky said:
I think a lot of people (even ones who notice) see the modern pistol and modern holster and immediately assume LEO and then don't think another thing. Something like that is OBVIOUSLY not LEO. So maybe more people would talk. Conversation starter kind of thing.

lol. You need to OC with me for awhile. It would put to bed this notion of yours real quick.

WalkingWolf · Jun 4, 2013

marshaul said:
lol. You need to OC with me for awhile. It would put to bed this notion of yours real quick.

I tend to PFFFT people who want to be thought of as a cop, where I want to be sure nobody thinks of me as one when I OC. I try to be as accepting as possible. Yes I do laugh at cop wannabes, or even cops off duty that want to work off the job making sure the public recognizes them as a cop.

marshaul · Jun 4, 2013

WalkingWolf said:
I tend to PFFFT people who want to be thought of as a cop, where I want to be sure nobody thinks of me as one when I OC. I try to be as accepting as possible. Yes I do laugh at cop wannabes, or even cops off duty that want to work off the job making sure the public recognizes them as a cop.

You said it.

mobiushky · Jun 4, 2013

WalkingWolf said:
To be blunt it really does not matter how YOU feel about it, and the OP never mentioned about one shot stops, though with a 44 it was bound to come up. The fact is rounds that bounce on the pavement, hit walls, hit innocent bystanders never stop anybody. OTH a well placed 44 round has been know to bring down bears. But please follow the NYPD lead, load up some 50 round Glock magazines and shoot everything in hopes of hitting your bad guy. Yea that makes a lot of sense. :lol:

And to be quite blunt, it also does not matter how YOU feel. The OP asked if it's "acceptable" and then solicited input. But he also didn't clarify what "acceptable" meant. I was simply giving input which is equally as valid as your input. I was not even really commenting on "the .44" as much as the mentality of "you don't need more than X" that some posters are portraying in this thread. All firearms will have one shot stops and all firearms will have shots that will hit but not stop. The caliber is irrelevant. In fact, if you think about it, my comments were not even directed at the OP as the OP has already stated that he understands the tactical limitations to the firearm he's talked about and that he prefer's others in EDC.

I do not care who you are, you will miss under the stress of the life or death encounter. To deny that and to ignore that is naive. And the implication that you will only ever need to shoot one person is willfully ignorant. (again, I'm not specifically directing that at you although for some reason you seem to be taking it personally.)

If you really want to talk about the psychology of the personal defense encounter, the reality is that most likely 90% or more of the people here could carry a single shot .22LR pistol and be fine. Most attackers are not motivated enough to hang around and double check your caliber of handgun after the first shot goes off. But we all know that's not a smart plan of defense because we prepare for the 1 in a million chance of a motivated attacker. And if we prepare for that, many of us want to be prepared for any situation we might encounter. Which means we have to prepare for more than one attacker and we have to prepare for less than a 100% hit rate. You can make all the inane references to NYPD and try to puff up the feathers by attempting to demean people (carry 50 round glock mags?) but the fact is I don't care what you say. Your attempts to demean me won't work. It is a fact that people lose fine motor skill when they are stressed. It is a fact that people do not pay attention to round count when they are stressed. And humans miss when they are stressed and pumped up on adrenaline.

WalkingWolf · Jun 4, 2013

mobiushky said:
And to be quite blunt, it also does not matter how YOU feel. The OP asked if it's "acceptable" and then solicited input. But he also didn't clarify what "acceptable" meant. I was simply giving input which is equally as valid as your input. I was not even really commenting on "the .44" as much as the mentality of "you don't need more than X" that some posters are portraying in this thread. All firearms will have one shot stops and all firearms will have shots that will hit but not stop. The caliber is irrelevant. In fact, if you think about it, my comments were not even directed at the OP as the OP has already stated that he understands the tactical limitations to the firearm he's talked about and that he prefer's others in EDC.

I do not care who you are, you will miss under the stress of the life or death encounter. To deny that and to ignore that is naive. And the implication that you will only ever need to shoot one person is willfully ignorant. (again, I'm not specifically directing that at you although for some reason you seem to be taking it personally.)

If you really want to talk about the psychology of the personal defense encounter, the reality is that most likely 90% or more of the people here could carry a single shot .22LR pistol and be fine. Most attackers are not motivated enough to hang around and double check your caliber of handgun after the first shot goes off. But we all know that's not a smart plan of defense because we prepare for the 1 in a million chance of a motivated attacker. And if we prepare for that, many of us want to be prepared for any situation we might encounter. Which means we have to prepare for more than one attacker and we have to prepare for less than a 100% hit rate. You can make all the inane references to NYPD and try to puff up the feathers by attempting to demean people (carry 50 round glock mags?) but the fact is I don't care what you say. Your attempts to demean me won't work. It is a fact that people lose fine motor skill when they are stressed. It is a fact that people do not pay attention to round count when they are stressed. And humans miss when they are stressed and pumped up on adrenaline.

I don't take anything personal, I just get a kick out of the idiotic spray and pray mentality. It does not matter whether it is police or civilian, it is downright stupid.

mobiushky · Jun 4, 2013

WalkingWolf said:
I don't take anything personal, I just get a kick out of the idiotic spray and pray mentality. It does not matter whether it is police or civilian, it is downright stupid.

And who in this thread is advocating spray and pray? I'm not. Stating that you understand the limitations of firearms and the tendency of the human body to lose accuracy under high stress situations and then accepting that it will more than likely result in requiring more than one round is not saying you should spray and pray. Every single bullet that leaves the barrel is a mini-lawsuit waiting to happen. Judicious use of those bullets is paramount. But even if you land every shot on the target's person, your likelihood of 100% vital organ or brain stem kill shot is very very low. Adrenaline causes shaky hands. That's not fear that's a simple biological response to the presence of adrenaline in your system. People tend not to stand still like paper targets. That means even the most accurate shooter in the world is not going to be able to nail that grain of rice from 50 feet if he's under that much stress. We can certainly prepare and practice for that, but we will lose accuracy no matter how much we practice. And it will take more than one shot to stop a motivated attacker because that single thigh hit with a .40S&W isn't really going to stop a motivated attacker. And since we can't predict whether it's going to be one or 10 attackers we have no idea how many rounds we will need in the event of defending our lives. That's just being prepared, not saying spray and pray.

If you believe the course instructors (and I'm not saying they are guru's or always right), but IF you do believe them defensive shootings generally only involve 3 rounds. So should we only carry 3 rounds in our mags? Bloomberg certainly thinks that acceptable. I just don't see the mentality of "I only need one shot" even if that one shot does stop the attacker. You never know how many buddies he's got with him.

WalkingWolf · Jun 4, 2013

mobiushky said:
And who in this thread is advocating spray and pray? I'm not. Stating that you understand the limitations of firearms and the tendency of the human body to lose accuracy under high stress situations and then accepting that it will more than likely result in requiring more than one round is not saying you should spray and pray. Every single bullet that leaves the barrel is a mini-lawsuit waiting to happen. Judicious use of those bullets is paramount. But even if you land every shot on the target's person, your likelihood of 100% vital organ or brain stem kill shot is very very low. Adrenaline causes shaky hands. That's not fear that's a simple biological response to the presence of adrenaline in your system. People tend not to stand still like paper targets. That means even the most accurate shooter in the world is not going to be able to nail that grain of rice from 50 feet if he's under that much stress. We can certainly prepare and practice for that, but we will lose accuracy no matter how much we practice. And it will take more than one shot to stop a motivated attacker because that single thigh hit with a .40S&W isn't really going to stop a motivated attacker. And since we can't predict whether it's going to be one or 10 attackers we have no idea how many rounds we will need in the event of defending our lives. That's just being prepared, not saying spray and pray.

If you believe the course instructors (and I'm not saying they are guru's or always right), but IF you do believe them defensive shootings generally only involve 3 rounds. So should we only carry 3 rounds in our mags? Bloomberg certainly thinks that acceptable. I just don't see the mentality of "I only need one shot" even if that one shot does stop the attacker. You never know how many buddies he's got with him.

There is NO excuse for shooting up the surroundings or other innocent people no matter what the stress factor is. If you or anyone else cannot handle the responsibility for your shots, you have no business being armed. Statistics are not on your side for shootings, and what makes you think bad guys wait their turn to have at a good guy with a gun? That is insane in itself. Anyone shoots an innocent they should be sent to the pokey for a appropriate amount of time. Most times I don't even need one shot, I don't sit around fantasizing I am a Miami Vice detective taking on a gang of drug dealers in a shootout while each one is shot away by a couple hundred rounds, and no civilians are shot in the spray.

My fantasy is not having to use my firearm, and if I am forced to that I hit the bad guy with only the force necessary and not anybody else. There are no excuses. Can't take the stress to shoot accurately, hire a body guard who can.

kurt555gs · Jun 4, 2013

To the original post:

Yes!

mobiushky · Jun 4, 2013

WalkingWolf said:
There is NO excuse for shooting up the surroundings or other innocent people no matter what the stress factor is. If you or anyone else cannot handle the responsibility for your shots, you have no business being armed. Statistics are not on your side for shootings, and what makes you think bad guys wait their turn to have at a good guy with a gun? That is insane in itself. Anyone shoots an innocent they should be sent to the pokey for a appropriate amount of time. Most times I don't even need one shot, I don't sit around fantasizing I am a Miami Vice detective taking on a gang of drug dealers in a shootout while each one is shot away by a couple hundred rounds, and no civilians are shot in the spray.

My fantasy is not having to use my firearm, and if I am forced to that I hit the bad guy with only the force necessary and not anybody else. There are no excuses. Can't take the stress to shoot accurately, hire a body guard who can.

Of course there is no excuse for shooting anything other than the attacker. You make some WILD swings here. At what point did I say I you would not be able to hit the person of your target? Just because you land 5 shots on the body of the person does not mean that all 5 will be dead on 100% heart shots or eye socket shots. But you are using hyperbole to imply I'm suggesting people go out and shoot anything and everything waving guns in the air and shooting like wild. That's stupid. And it belittles the discussion to make that kind of assumption. Then to further imply that people should hire a body guard based on an invalid assumption further belittles it. If you can't figure out what I mean, you have serious denial issues. Any stress WILL reduce your accuracy. Unlike your assumption, that doesn't mean I'm out there shooting innocent people. That means when I'm at a 7 yd distance and I can place 1" groups on a paper target, those groups will be 8"-10" under the stress of threat to life. That means your shot will still hit your target but they are not likely to hit the heart or the spinal column. Don't play the game of "you shouldn't be trusted with a gun" because you are making wild hyperbole about what I'm saying. If you can't handle the truth of the reality of a self defense encounter maybe you shouldn't be trusted with a firearm. (See 2 can play the hyperbole game.) Even I know that's a stupid assumption because I would never presume to know how you will handle the situation.

RandallFlagg · Jun 4, 2013

kurt555gs said:
To the original post:

Yes!

That's a pretty sweet rig.

WalkingWolf · Jun 4, 2013

mobiushky said:
Of course there is no excuse for shooting anything other than the attacker. You make some WILD swings here. At what point did I say I you would not be able to hit the person of your target? Just because you land 5 shots on the body of the person does not mean that all 5 will be dead on 100% heart shots or eye socket shots. But you are using hyperbole to imply I'm suggesting people go out and shoot anything and everything waving guns in the air and shooting like wild. That's stupid. And it belittles the discussion to make that kind of assumption. Then to further imply that people should hire a body guard based on an invalid assumption further belittles it. If you can't figure out what I mean, you have serious denial issues. Any stress WILL reduce your accuracy. Unlike your assumption, that doesn't mean I'm out there shooting innocent people. That means when I'm at a 7 yd distance and I can place 1" groups on a paper target, those groups will be 8"-10" under the stress of threat to life. That means your shot will still hit your target but they are not likely to hit the heart or the spinal column. Don't play the game of "you shouldn't be trusted with a gun" because you are making wild hyperbole about what I'm saying. If you can't handle the truth of the reality of a self defense encounter maybe you shouldn't be trusted with a firearm. (See 2 can play the hyperbole game.) Even I know that's a stupid assumption because I would never presume to know how you will handle the situation.

I am not making any claims at all, I don't care what you carry or how many rounds you carry. It is your choice, but you are responsible for those rounds if you use them. And no amount of stress is a excuse, which you BTW brought up. You seem to be under the impression with a lot of rounds you can hold off a gang or even an army. That each person will wait their turn to be shot, yes you are defensive over spray and pray comments, so yes I do believe you find the tactic acceptable. To make it worse you seem to imply that others cannot make accurate, responsible shots under stress, and they need a lot of rounds. Speak for yourself, not others. Again if you cannot handle the stress to make accurate shots YOU do not have any business with a gun. Sorry if you do not like that, but there are no excuses, NONE.

BTW LAC have a much better record than LE for hits to misses. And most LE are carrying double stack semi autos. If I can't put down a bad guy at close range with two shots, I myself do not need to be carrying.

WalkingWolf · Jun 4, 2013

kurt555gs said:
To the original post:

Yes!

That's a good car rig.

mobiushky · Jun 4, 2013

WalkingWolf said:
I am not making any claims at all, I don't care what you carry or how many rounds you carry. It is your choice, but you are responsible for those rounds if you use them. And no amount of stress is a excuse, which you BTW brought up. You seem to be under the impression with a lot of rounds you can hold off a gang or even an army. That each person will wait their turn to be shot, yes you are defensive over spray and pray comments, so yes I do believe you find the tactic acceptable. To make it worse you seem to imply that others cannot make accurate, responsible shots under stress, and they need a lot of rounds. Speak for yourself, not others. Again if you cannot handle the stress to make accurate shots YOU do not have any business with a gun. Sorry if you do not like that, but there are no excuses, NONE.

BTW LAC have a much better record than LE for hits to misses. And most LE are carrying double stack semi autos. If I can't put down a bad guy at close range with two shots, I myself do not need to be carrying.

You are making claims that are not true. You are the one that said, with that .44 mag if you can place your shots you shouldn't need to reload. That's a claim and it's not necessarily true. You are the one that said I was advocating spray and pray, which I'm not and never did. And you're making a TON of assumption about what I think. All of which are wrong. I mean totally wrong. In fact you make a LOT of assumptions that aren't true. Which actually leads me to believe that your assumptions about your own abilities are questionable at best.

There are basic physiological responses to events that will cause changes in our actions. You being in denial of those facts is somewhat disturbing to be honest. You keep making these wild over exaggerated claims about what I said. Which means you don't even understand what I said.

Seriously, did I touch some kind of nerve to make you so pumped up? Everything I've said is reasonable. And while it may not be everyone's choice, it's not wrong or invalid. In fact I've been very clear that it's MY view on carry. Why does that bother you so much that you are trying to bully me, implying I shouldn't carry a gun? (Not that I care what you say I should or shouldn't do.)

SPOProds · Jun 4, 2013

Forget all the stress and what not(very very valid though) and take this scenario...

3 bad guys, 3 shots each

6 shot revolver.... or
15 round semi auto?

Sent from the back of a black van

mobiushky · Jun 4, 2013

SPOProds said:
Forget all the stress and what not(very very valid though) and take this scenario...

3 bad guys, 3 shots each

6 shot revolver.... or
15 round semi auto?

Sent from the back of a black van

Exactly.

centsi · Jun 4, 2013

A .44 Super Blackhawk is entirely appropriate for OC. It's a gun, it's accurate and it's powerful. Enough said.

WalkingWolf · Jun 4, 2013

mobiushky said:
You are making claims that are not true. You are the one that said, with that .44 mag if you can place your shots you shouldn't need to reload. That's a claim and it's not necessarily true. You are the one that said I was advocating spray and pray, which I'm not and never did. And you're making a TON of assumption about what I think. All of which are wrong. I mean totally wrong. In fact you make a LOT of assumptions that aren't true. Which actually leads me to believe that your assumptions about your own abilities are questionable at best.

There are basic physiological responses to events that will cause changes in our actions. You being in denial of those facts is somewhat disturbing to be honest. You keep making these wild over exaggerated claims about what I said. Which means you don't even understand what I said.

Seriously, did I touch some kind of nerve to make you so pumped up? Everything I've said is reasonable. And while it may not be everyone's choice, it's not wrong or invalid. In fact I've been very clear that it's MY view on carry. Why does that bother you so much that you are trying to bully me, implying I shouldn't carry a gun? (Not that I care what you say I should or shouldn't do.)

What is not true about the claim of proper shot placement, and that alone upset YOU? Yea I can see you might have problems with accuracy under stress. I have not said anything that was pumped up, just plain and simple each individual person is responsible for their shots, YOU were the one who made stupid ignorant claims of losing accuracy under stress. This was a pleasant conversation until you got your panties in a wad over the spray and pray comment. Seems I hit a nerve. Not my fault you have control issues over how others wish to carry, and because you may not be competent to accurately hit your mark under stress you throw a hissy fit. Life is a beach, maybe you should worry about yourself instead of others.

kurt555gs · Jun 4, 2013

SPOProds said:
Forget all the stress and what not(very very valid though) and take this scenario...

3 bad guys, 3 shots each

6 shot revolver.... or
15 round semi auto?

Sent from the back of a black van

3 bad guys. One shot each with a Super Blackhawk. Three left in the cylinder. It's not a little 9mm where you need three shots to take down a target.

Carthago Delenda Est

Is a .44 Super Blackhawk acceptable for open carry?

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