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Thread: Alcohol and carring a firearm

  1. #1
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    Alcohol and carring a firearm

    I've been pondering this for some time, and havent been able to find a decent answer. How much booze can have in their system to be considered going armed while intoxicated ?. If I'm out and decide to have a beer with dinner, can I leave the gun in the car and not holster it afterwards for a period time depending on how much was drank?. It seems to be a major hassle to be not able not drink because theres a gun around. And taking it home beforehands isnt always possible.

    So, how close does your gun need to be before your considered "going armed"?. State stats. dont really say on either matter...

    Thoughts?
    <-----Leading by example....while armed

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    941.20 Endangering safety by use of dangerous
    weapon. (1) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a
    Class A misdemeanor:
    (a)
    (b) Operates or goes armed with a firearm while he or she is
    under the influence of an intoxicant;

    “Under the Influence‖ has been defined as materially impairing
    the ability to handle a firearm which is further explained as consuming ―
    an amount of
    alcohol to cause the person to be less able to exercise clear judgment and steady hand
    necessary to handle a firearm.‖ WI Jury Instruction-CRIMINAL 1321.

    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of
    s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach;
    2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  3. #3
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    941.237 Carrying handgun where alcohol beverages may be sold and consumed
    applies to a "tavern" (bar, restaurant, festival w/ alcohol license)
    http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/statutes/941/III/237
    A licensee may not carry concealed & consume alcohol on the premises.
    Zero.


    941.20 Endangering safety by use of dangerous weapon
    http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/statutes/941/III/20
    (1) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor
    (b) Operates or goes armed with a firearm while he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant


    940.09 Homicide by intoxicated use of a vehicle or firearm
    http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/statutes/940/I/09
    (1g) Any person who does any of the following is guilty of a Class D felony
    (a) Causes the death of another by the operation or handling of a firearm or airgun while under the influence of an intoxicant. (am) Causes the death of another by the operation or handling of a firearm or airgun while the person has a detectable amount of a restricted controlled substance in his or her blood.
    (b) Causes the death of another by the operation or handling of a firearm or airgun while the person has an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.


    939.22(42)
    http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/statutes/939/I/22/42
    "Under the influence of an intoxicant" means that the actor's ability to operate a vehicle or handle a firearm or airgun is materially impaired because of his or her consumption of an alcohol beverage, of a controlled substance or controlled substance analog under ch. 961, of any combination of an alcohol beverage, controlled substance and controlled substance analog, or of any other drug or of an alcohol beverage and any other drug.



    http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/st.../III/23/3/d/_4
    To "go armed" does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant's person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon's presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    WI v. Keith (1993)



    So... "materially impaired" can probably be proven at any BAC if they have video of you doing stupid human tricks, or lots of reliable witnesses to your impairedness.
    The only absolutes stated in the laws are:
    1) 0.08%BAC
    2) "a detectable amount of a restricted controlled substance"

    Notice that you can be impaired by legal drugs just as much as by alcohol or illegal drugs.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 06-05-2013 at 01:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deek View Post
    I've been pondering this for some time, and havent been able to find a decent answer. How much booze can have in their system to be considered going armed while intoxicated ?. If I'm out and decide to have a beer with dinner, can I leave the gun in the car and not holster it afterwards for a period time depending on how much was drank?. It seems to be a major hassle to be not able not drink because theres a gun around. And taking it home beforehands isnt always possible.

    So, how close does your gun need to be before your considered "going armed"?. State stats. dont really say on either matter...

    Thoughts?

    I know that a lot of individuals will not agree with me, but.

    I instruct my clients that if they have a weapon on them, DON'T drink. If they plan on drinking, leave the weapon at home.
    Trying to convince someone on a jury that the ONE drink you had with dinner doesn't affect your aim and or judgement is not something I would care to attempt. JMHO.

    JJC

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    Better judged by twelve men, good and true, than carried by six mourning and blue.

    The law is an ass that lawyers ride to work, don't try to be one.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-05-2013 at 01:26 PM.
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    Being OK is one less drink than being unsafe. Hope this clears it up.

    Drunk with a gun? Oh boy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJC View Post
    I know that a lot of individuals will not agree with me, but.

    I instruct my clients that if they have a weapon on them, DON'T drink. If they plan on drinking, leave the weapon at home.
    Trying to convince someone on a jury that the ONE drink you had with dinner doesn't affect your aim and or judgement is not something I would care to attempt. JMHO.

    JJC
    Same here. If I OC, I do not touch any alcohol. If I drink. I only drink at home and then I don't go anywhere till the next day because The legal system and leos are looking for myriads of ways to disarm us. Give them no chance to do so. I only drink in the evening after I have done my errands out and about.

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    All this info you all have provided is pretty much what I came up with too.... But, the general concern was, IF one was to have a beer with dinner how much time would have to go by before one could feel safe in the fact of not having worry about causing concern. I get the whole zero tolerance thing, and I've turned down many a "here, taste this" things because I had my gun with me. What im wondering about is how close to a firearm is considered "going armed"?

    Yeah, if going to have a few I'll leave it behind (I'm not a moron). But leaving it at home isnt always an option. Besides, the DOT says an hour of detox (approx.) for every drink before you drive to be safe, doubling that should be good enough. Its not like they set a BAC level to be at an "impaired" state, just says if you are "impaired". They have that for driving, why cant they set a level for this?. Notice they dont say "zero".....

    As for "drunks with guns"..... only a complete dumbass would do that, and they deserve what they get
    <-----Leading by example....while armed

    Wisconsin democrats are a tough bunch, and you know what they say-- "when the going gets tough...."

    A "No Guns" sign protects me as much as a speed limit sign keeps people from speeding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deek View Post
    IF one was to have a beer with dinner how much time would have to go by before one could feel safe in the fact of not having worry about causing concern.
    The rate of elimination [of ethanol] in the average person is commonly estimated at .015 to .020 grams per deciliter per hour (g/dl/h) (0.015 to 0.020 BAC per hour). The BAC/drink/body weight chart at the Wikipedia has the notation "Subtract approximately 0.01 every 40 minutes after drinking."

    There are five 150 ml servings in a 750ml bottle of wine, that'll put me just over 0.08 BAC, but I'm unlikely to drink a bottle of wine alone. At the moment I have my first 150 ml at my side and I'll have the second with my dinner. Most evenings I have a glass of gin before bed.

    http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/...calculator.htm
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-05-2013 at 08:09 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJC View Post
    I know that a lot of individuals will not agree with me, but.

    I instruct my clients that if they have a weapon on them, DON'T drink. If they plan on drinking, leave the weapon at home.
    Trying to convince someone on a jury that the ONE drink you had with dinner doesn't affect your aim and or judgement is not something I would care to attempt. JMHO.

    JJC
    I agree with you, I recommend no drinking while carrying.
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  11. #11
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    Every time someone asks the LAWS, the opinions invariably come out; but I commend the use of words like "recommend" to make it clear it is an opinion. Just so the OP is aware, the opinions vary. Responsible drinking is not necessarily forbidden while merely carrying a defensive firearm or other deadly weapon (think serrated steak knife.) This is, of course, subject to all local laws, and a person's ability to drink responsibly.
    Last edited by MAC702; 06-05-2013 at 08:54 PM.
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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    I agree with you, I recommend no drinking while carrying.
    I recommend the same but add that just because you have a few drinks does not mean that you loose the right to defend your life with your firearm if the need arises
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 06-05-2013 at 11:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    I recommend the same but add that just because you have a few drinks does not mean that you loose the right to defend your life with your firearm if the need arises
    Very true
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  14. #14
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deek
    What im wondering about is how close to a firearm is considered "going armed"?
    That was already answered.
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal
    http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/st.../III/23/3/d/_4
    To "go armed" does not require going anywhere.
    The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are:
    1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant's person or within reach;
    2) the defendant is aware of the weapon's presence;
    and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    WI v. Keith (1993)

  15. #15
    Regular Member Viper's Avatar
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    I wonder if we need to hide our gun safe keys from ourselves when we have a drink or two (or more) at home?

    Beyond stupidity for sure.
    Rick
    "Don't draw fire, it irritates the people around you."

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    Actually, even ten minutes before that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of
    s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach;
    2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
    .
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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