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Thread: How do you react if LEO wants you to hand over your firearm?

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    How do you react if LEO wants you to hand over your firearm?

    Hi there,
    I'm curious about this scenario:

    I'm out open carrying and an LEO ignorant of the laws stops me. He asks to check the weapon (maybe this is unlikely?).
    Am I able to refuse that request per 4th Amendment legally?
    What is the proper way to go about invoking the 4th?

    I am not asking anyone for legal advice, just seeing if anyone here has been in this position.


    Edit: While I've got you here, I'm waiting for my first gun to come in the mail.
    How can one find the kind of wilderness area where it is okay to go shooting? Somebody told me you can shoot on DNR land, others have told me to just go find some old logging roads. Any thoughts?
    Last edited by glockfanboy; 06-07-2013 at 02:40 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    NEVER hand over your firearm, that is a good way to get shot. If the LEO is going to take it, he is going to take, no matter what the law is. But never touch it, not even if he demands you touch it. Any resistance you give should only be verbal resistance.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-07-2013 at 02:47 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Ways to protect yourself and invoke your rights:
    1) Carry a voicerecorder and use it
    2) Never physically resist an officer, follow commands
    3) Verbally invoke your rights, your voice recorder will catch this. IE: "I do not consent to your search or seizure, I will not physically resist", etc.
    4) Don't argue extensively with the officer, leave the arguing for court. Silence is golden unless your expressing the invoking of rights.

    BTW, for the most part no interactions will occur if you following the law, dress normal and act normal. I have not had a negativity interaction with an officer since I started carrying, which is echoed throughout most the WA community.
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 06-07-2013 at 02:52 PM.
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

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    Regular Member CCinMaine's Avatar
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    Re: How do you react if LEO wants you to hand over your firearm?

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    NEVER hand over your firearm, that is a good way to get shot. If the LEO is going to take it, he is going to take, no matter what the law is. But never touch it, not even if he demands you touch it. Any resistance you give should only be verbal resistance.
    Agreed. You should also be sure to record any interactions. As for invoking your 4th, just say you refuse to any search or seizure. But never physically resist anything that will only get you charged or dead.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfanboy View Post
    Edit: While I've got you here, I'm waiting for my first gun to come in the mail.
    How can one find the kind of wilderness area where it is okay to go shooting? Somebody told me you can shoot on DNR land, others have told me to just go find some old logging roads. Any thoughts?
    See the range map at waguns.org

    http://www.waguns.org/rangemap.html
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

    It's called the "American Dream" because you have to be asleep to believe it. - George Carlin

    I carry a spare tire, in case I have a flat. I carry life insurance, in case I die. I carry a gun, in case I need it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfanboy View Post
    --snipped--
    Edit: While I've got you here, I'm waiting for my first gun to come in the mail.
    Doubt that very much, unless you and another private party are working in concert to try to slip one by the Postal Service

    Suspect that you meant you were waiting for a call from your favorite FFL.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Doubt that very much, unless you and another private party are working in concert to try to slip one by the Postal Service

    Suspect that you meant you were waiting for a call from your favorite FFL.
    He could also be waiting for a C&R if he has a federal license, 30 bucks, or a antique firearm. It is getting more and more difficult to get a inexpensive C&R though these days. I believe there are some Toks still out there though, and last I checked SARCO still had Star, and Colt C&Rs. Star is a very good OC weapon, but good fitting holsters almost have to be custom made for them.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    He could also be waiting for a C&R if he has a federal license, 30 bucks, or a antique firearm. It is getting more and more difficult to get a inexpensive C&R though these days. I believe there are some Toks still out there though, and last I checked SARCO still had Star, and Colt C&Rs. Star is a very good OC weapon, but good fitting holsters almost have to be custom made for them.
    Interesting point.

    Will the USPS accept C&R for shipment from or to a non-FFL?

    I would have thought not, but I don't know either way.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Interesting point.

    Will the USPS accept C&R for shipment from or to a non-FFL?

    I would have thought not, but I don't know either way.
    Not sure, years ago a friend of mine had a C&R, and he got his firearms through UPS. I really should get one, but probably wouldn't use it unless I got another Star.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Doubt that very much, unless you and another private party are working in concert to try to slip one by the Postal Service

    Suspect that you meant you were waiting for a call from your favorite FFL.
    Ha. I did indeed mean that I am waiting for a call from my FFL.
    I was really hoping to get it by today, but it looks like I'm going to have to wait until at least Monday.
    Guess I will continue to pass the time by watching countless gun videos on youtube.

  11. #11
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfanboy View Post
    Ha. I did indeed mean that I am waiting for a call from my FFL.
    I was really hoping to get it by today, but it looks like I'm going to have to wait until at least Monday.
    Guess I will continue to pass the time by watching countless gun videos on youtube.
    So I take by your SN you are getting a Glock, which model?
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Doubt that very much, unless you and another private party are working in concert to try to slip one by the Postal Service.
    Yup, C&R covers that. I get pistols in the mail, right to the door.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Interesting point.
    Will the USPS accept C&R for shipment from or to a non-FFL?
    I would have thought not, but I don't know either way.
    These are the rules for the USPS.

    http://about.usps.com/postal-bulleti...l/updt_001.htm
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Interesting point.

    Will the USPS accept C&R for shipment from or to a non-FFL?

    I would have thought not, but I don't know either way.
    A person with a C&R license has an FFL... just not a dealers license, a collector's license.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfanboy View Post
    Hi there,
    I'm curious about this scenario:

    I'm out open carrying and an LEO ignorant of the laws stops me. He asks to check the weapon (maybe this is unlikely?).
    Am I able to refuse that request per 4th Amendment legally?
    What is the proper way to go about invoking the 4th?

    I am not asking anyone for legal advice, just seeing if anyone here has been in this position.


    Edit: While I've got you here, I'm waiting for my first gun to come in the mail.
    How can one find the kind of wilderness area where it is okay to go shooting? Somebody told me you can shoot on DNR land, others have told me to just go find some old logging roads. Any thoughts?
    To answer your question, may I first state that I have OC'd for 43 years now, and I have never been asked for my CPL or my weapon. That said.

    If a LEO wants to inspect your weapon, respectfully decline. Yes, 4th amendment, but even more so Article 1 Section 7 of the Washington state constitution protects your privacy unless you are suspected of criminal activity. OC of a firearm (loaded or unloaded) is not valid suspicion of criminal activity... therefore, there is no valid reason for them to even request to seize your property.

    As for public lands: There are places on public lands that you can shoot, yes. There are also public lands that are closed to shooting because of high visitor traffic. Be sure where you are is open. That said, it is better to shoot at a regular range, or on your own property. If you decide to shoot on public lands, be sure of your backstop, and clean up after yourself.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Cop wants me to hand over my gun?

    "Am I free to leave?"

    No?

    "I do not consent to any searches and/or seizures." "I will not offer any physical resistance though."
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    I was approached/bullied by a Bellingham LEO not too long ago. He asked me for my weapon while I was legally armed and walking my dogs. I replied "No, I do not consent to any search or seizure." I kept my hands in the open, holding the leash and I retained my weapon. He backed down after the supervisor got there.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    So I take by your SN you are getting a Glock, which model?
    Glock 26.
    Pick it up from my FFL tomorrow morning.
    Couldn't be more excited. I've had gun fever since I ordered it last weekend.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfanboy View Post
    Glock 26.
    Pick it up from my FFL tomorrow morning.
    Couldn't be more excited. I've had gun fever since I ordered it last weekend.
    You have contracted a malady for which there is no cure known to medical science.

    Buying a new gun will often cause the condition to go into remission, but it lurks there waiting for something to trigger it again
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    More useful info on not interacting with LEO...:

    The "Don't Talk to Police" video. It's 48 minutes and worth watching several times. First part is a law school professor talking at warp speed, second part is a law student & ex-cop who explains why everything the prof said is true.

    The Flex Your Rights channel on YouTube. Videos on many aspects of citizen-police interaction.
    They also have a website: http://www.flexyourrights.org/

    a LEO ignorant of the laws stops me.
    He asks to check the weapon (maybe this is unlikely?).
    Am I able to refuse that request per 4th Amendment legally?
    If he has to ask, he can't demand/force compliance. You can choose to let him seize your property & run a search on the serial number, or not.
    If he had RAS (reasonable articulable suspicion) of you committing a crime he wouldn't be asking, you'd be arrested & he could do whatever he wanted to you & your property.
    (Pistol, self-defense tool, handgun, etc. ... not "weapon".)
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You have contracted a malady for which there is no cure known to medical science.

    Buying a new gun will often cause the condition to go into remission, but it lurks there waiting for something to trigger it again
    Tell me about it. I've already plotted out my next several purchases. 2013 is going to be an expensive year for me, I think.

  21. #21
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    As to the original topic here....

    ALL depends upon what he want to TRADE for it and if it is a mutually acceptable transaction--- Free ENTERPRISE wins!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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