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How do you react if LEO wants you to hand over your firearm?

glockfanboy

New member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
6
Location
United States
Hi there,
I'm curious about this scenario:

I'm out open carrying and an LEO ignorant of the laws stops me. He asks to check the weapon (maybe this is unlikely?).
Am I able to refuse that request per 4th Amendment legally?
What is the proper way to go about invoking the 4th?

I am not asking anyone for legal advice, just seeing if anyone here has been in this position.


Edit: While I've got you here, I'm waiting for my first gun to come in the mail.
How can one find the kind of wilderness area where it is okay to go shooting? Somebody told me you can shoot on DNR land, others have told me to just go find some old logging roads. Any thoughts?
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
NEVER hand over your firearm, that is a good way to get shot. If the LEO is going to take it, he is going to take, no matter what the law is. But never touch it, not even if he demands you touch it. Any resistance you give should only be verbal resistance.
 
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slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
Ways to protect yourself and invoke your rights:
1) Carry a voice recorder and use it
2) Never physically resist an officer, follow commands
3) Verbally invoke your rights, your voice recorder will catch this. IE: "I do not consent to your search or seizure, I will not physically resist", etc.
4) Don't argue extensively with the officer, leave the arguing for court. Silence is golden unless your expressing the invoking of rights.

BTW, for the most part no interactions will occur if you following the law, dress normal and act normal. I have not had a negativity interaction with an officer since I started carrying, which is echoed throughout most the WA community.
 
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CCinMaine

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
193
Location
Windham, Maine
NEVER hand over your firearm, that is a good way to get shot. If the LEO is going to take it, he is going to take, no matter what the law is. But never touch it, not even if he demands you touch it. Any resistance you give should only be verbal resistance.

Agreed. You should also be sure to record any interactions. As for invoking your 4th, just say you refuse to any search or seizure. But never physically resist anything that will only get you charged or dead.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
--snipped--
Edit: While I've got you here, I'm waiting for my first gun to come in the mail.

Doubt that very much, unless you and another private party are working in concert to try to slip one by the Postal Service :uhoh:

Suspect that you meant you were waiting for a call from your favorite FFL.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Doubt that very much, unless you and another private party are working in concert to try to slip one by the Postal Service :uhoh:

Suspect that you meant you were waiting for a call from your favorite FFL.

He could also be waiting for a C&R if he has a federal license, 30 bucks, or a antique firearm. It is getting more and more difficult to get a inexpensive C&R though these days. I believe there are some Toks still out there though, and last I checked SARCO still had Star, and Colt C&Rs. Star is a very good OC weapon, but good fitting holsters almost have to be custom made for them.
 

Grapeshot

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Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
He could also be waiting for a C&R if he has a federal license, 30 bucks, or a antique firearm. It is getting more and more difficult to get a inexpensive C&R though these days. I believe there are some Toks still out there though, and last I checked SARCO still had Star, and Colt C&Rs. Star is a very good OC weapon, but good fitting holsters almost have to be custom made for them.

Interesting point.

Will the USPS accept C&R for shipment from or to a non-FFL?

I would have thought not, but I don't know either way.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Interesting point.

Will the USPS accept C&R for shipment from or to a non-FFL?

I would have thought not, but I don't know either way.

Not sure, years ago a friend of mine had a C&R, and he got his firearms through UPS. I really should get one, but probably wouldn't use it unless I got another Star.
 

glockfanboy

New member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
6
Location
United States
Doubt that very much, unless you and another private party are working in concert to try to slip one by the Postal Service :uhoh:

Suspect that you meant you were waiting for a call from your favorite FFL.

Ha. I did indeed mean that I am waiting for a call from my FFL.
I was really hoping to get it by today, but it looks like I'm going to have to wait until at least Monday.
Guess I will continue to pass the time by watching countless gun videos on youtube.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Ha. I did indeed mean that I am waiting for a call from my FFL.
I was really hoping to get it by today, but it looks like I'm going to have to wait until at least Monday.
Guess I will continue to pass the time by watching countless gun videos on youtube.

So I take by your SN you are getting a Glock, which model?
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
Doubt that very much, unless you and another private party are working in concert to try to slip one by the Postal Service.
Yup, C&R covers that. I get pistols in the mail, right to the door.

Interesting point.
Will the USPS accept C&R for shipment from or to a non-FFL?
I would have thought not, but I don't know either way.

These are the rules for the USPS.

http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2011/pb22321/html/updt_001.htm
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
Hi there,
I'm curious about this scenario:

I'm out open carrying and an LEO ignorant of the laws stops me. He asks to check the weapon (maybe this is unlikely?).
Am I able to refuse that request per 4th Amendment legally?
What is the proper way to go about invoking the 4th?

I am not asking anyone for legal advice, just seeing if anyone here has been in this position.


Edit: While I've got you here, I'm waiting for my first gun to come in the mail.
How can one find the kind of wilderness area where it is okay to go shooting? Somebody told me you can shoot on DNR land, others have told me to just go find some old logging roads. Any thoughts?

To answer your question, may I first state that I have OC'd for 43 years now, and I have never been asked for my CPL or my weapon. That said.

If a LEO wants to inspect your weapon, respectfully decline. Yes, 4th amendment, but even more so Article 1 Section 7 of the Washington state constitution protects your privacy unless you are suspected of criminal activity. OC of a firearm (loaded or unloaded) is not valid suspicion of criminal activity... therefore, there is no valid reason for them to even request to seize your property.

As for public lands: There are places on public lands that you can shoot, yes. There are also public lands that are closed to shooting because of high visitor traffic. Be sure where you are is open. That said, it is better to shoot at a regular range, or on your own property. If you decide to shoot on public lands, be sure of your backstop, and clean up after yourself.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
I was approached/bullied by a Bellingham LEO not too long ago. He asked me for my weapon while I was legally armed and walking my dogs. I replied "No, I do not consent to any search or seizure." I kept my hands in the open, holding the leash and I retained my weapon. He backed down after the supervisor got there.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Glock 26.
Pick it up from my FFL tomorrow morning.
Couldn't be more excited. I've had gun fever since I ordered it last weekend.
You have contracted a malady for which there is no cure known to medical science.

Buying a new gun will often cause the condition to go into remission, but it lurks there waiting for something to trigger it again :lol:
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
More useful info on not interacting with LEO...:

The "Don't Talk to Police" video. It's 48 minutes and worth watching several times. First part is a law school professor talking at warp speed, second part is a law student & ex-cop who explains why everything the prof said is true.

The Flex Your Rights channel on YouTube. Videos on many aspects of citizen-police interaction.
They also have a website: http://www.flexyourrights.org/

a LEO ignorant of the laws stops me.
He asks to check the weapon (maybe this is unlikely?).
Am I able to refuse that request per 4th Amendment legally?
If he has to ask, he can't demand/force compliance. You can choose to let him seize your property & run a search on the serial number, or not.
If he had RAS (reasonable articulable suspicion) of you committing a crime he wouldn't be asking, you'd be arrested & he could do whatever he wanted to you & your property.
(Pistol, self-defense tool, handgun, etc. ... not "weapon".)
 

glockfanboy

New member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
6
Location
United States
You have contracted a malady for which there is no cure known to medical science.

Buying a new gun will often cause the condition to go into remission, but it lurks there waiting for something to trigger it again :lol:

Tell me about it. I've already plotted out my next several purchases. 2013 is going to be an expensive year for me, I think.
 
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