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NSA Spying .. people pissed ... government v. happy

DrakeZ07

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Messages
1,080
Location
Lexington, Ky
http://www.examiner.com/article/int...e-over-privacy-violation-has-u-s-give-details
people pissed

http://news.yahoo.com/intelligence-chief-defends-internet-spying-program-214254317.html
Gov't happy

And they want to start taking away our guns? I can make my own, dummies

All you need is a drill press .... I may start having "build" parties ...


Who needs a 3d printer?

Oh, is this forum now a haven for illegally constructing firearms and advocating such things?!
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
The BATFE is perfectly aware of the law. :rolleyes:

No, they like most dealers are not aware of the what the law says. Remember that certain dealers who post here cannot even cite the Form 4473 that shows that the form is for use on sales taking place wholly outside federal territories (federal states).

So, Marshual, while I agree with you most of the time, this time I don't.
 

XD40sc

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
402
Location
NC
No quarter for surrender monkeys

The people that are happy with the NSA spying, are nothing but a bunch of craven cowardly surrender monkeys and do not deserve the rights they are so damn eager to surrender. My problem with them is, is they do not have the right to turn in my rights. These surrender monkeys are as great a threat as our rights as are those trying to confiscate our rights.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
The people that are happy with the NSA spying, are nothing but a bunch of craven cowardly surrender monkeys and do not deserve the rights they are so damn eager to surrender. My problem with them is, is they do not have the right to turn in my rights. These surrender monkeys are as great a threat as our rights as are those trying to confiscate our rights.

Huh!?!

How can anyone not deserve rights? There is no courage requirement in the Bill of Rights. Timid people have just as much right to be left alone as anybody else. Same for ignorant people. A person deserves rights simply because he exists, nothing more required.

How can anybody "turn in" your rights? They can't. Even if the surrender monkeys (sic) waive their rights, they cannot waive yours.
 

XD40sc

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
402
Location
NC
Huh!?!

How can anyone not deserve rights? There is no courage requirement in the Bill of Rights. Timid people have just as much right to be left alone as anybody else. Same for ignorant people. A person deserves rights simply because he exists, nothing more required.

How can anybody "turn in" your rights? They can't. Even if the surrender monkeys (sic) waive their rights, they cannot waive yours.

You turn in your rights when you do not oppose violation of your rights. The "I have nothing to hide, so it's OK" that the majority profess is doing nothing more than handing over rights without a whimper.

Perhaps liberals might think that our rights are just granted without any reciprocity or responsibility, or even the duty to go and vote. I'm sorry, I see every person that thinks that our freedoms and rights are free and no better than the third generation welfare leach with a permanent lip-lock on the teat of the government.

Individually we have responsibilities as citizens to defend the rights we have. Once everyone decides our rights don't require individual responsibility, we are doomed, and our rights will quickly fade. We are damn close to that tipping point today.
 

Citizen

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Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
You turn in your rights when you do not oppose violation of your rights. The "I have nothing to hide, so it's OK" that the majority profess is doing nothing more than handing over rights without a whimper.

Perhaps liberals might think that our rights are just granted without any reciprocity or responsibility, or even the duty to go and vote. I'm sorry, I see every person that thinks that our freedoms and rights are free and no better than the third generation welfare leach with a permanent lip-lock on the teat of the government.

Individually we have responsibilities as citizens to defend the rights we have. Once everyone decides our rights don't require individual responsibility, we are doomed, and our rights will quickly fade. We are damn close to that tipping point today.

No you don't.

Among other things, you're basically saying that the aboriginal who never heard of rights or political theory doesn't have any rights. Including the slaves imported here from Africa in the 17th and 18th centuries.

You're also hinging rights on success against government. You can fight for your rights and still be doomed by losing the fight--see the Spartacus uprising in the latter half of the first century BC. You're saying those slaves who fought and lost did not have a right to be free men?

No, sir. Rights are rights are rights are rights. A person has them merely by existing. A person has as much property in his rights as himself--this was examined and explained to the satisfaction of the Founder's generation eighty-seven years before the Declaration of Independence by John Locke in Second Treatise on Government. Oh, by the way, the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence summarizes some of Locke's key points. You remember. "We hold these truths to be self-evident...endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights..."
 
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ron73440

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
474
Location
Suffolk VA
I'm disappointed in the lack of reaction when I talk to people, they think if it is used against terrorism then it's OK.

If I bring up the tea party IRS angle (govt power can be abused) I generally hear how that was a one time thing.

I believe most people don't value freedom and am not sure how long we will be free if this is the case.
 
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Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
I'm disappointed in the lack of reaction when I talk to people, they think if it is used against terrorism then it's OK.

If I bring up the tea party IRS angle (govt power can be abused) I generally hear how that was a one time thing.

I believe most people don't value freedom and am not sure how long we will be free if this is the case.


I understand.

The thing to do is put it in a frame of reference that gets their attention a little bit. Sometimes you have to start over in left field (no pun intended), and work your way back.

For example, "If it can be used against terrorism, it can be used against you. Or, more likely, used against opinion leaders and politicians. We already know Hoover used his dossiers to influence politics. We know about Hillary using FBI files in the travelgate scandal. We know about the IRS targeting certain groups based on their political ideology. What happens when the party you dislike is in power and starts using that information against opinion leaders you like? Or, starts influencing politicians by blackmail? You know, 'We'll keep your little trysts with the escort that we found out through your cell calls under wraps if you will just vote more money for us, or just vote to bomb Libya, or just vote to...'

I've had a very little luck with clearing up that trading liberty for safety is a red herring, a false positioning. Rights are safety. By empowering government thru reduction in rights, one is trading long-term security against short term security. Yeah, the terrorist might blow up a city. That's not a certainty. But, what is a certainty is that a bad government affects every single person in its jurisdiction, not just one city.

Etc.
 

joanie

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
306
Location
..
I for one am glad if the NSA is spying on me, they are keeping me safe. Please don't do that op, they wouldn't like that. We should embrace this NWO that is coming and not do anything to undermind their efforts. Don't you understand that they know whats best for us? We should trust our leaders, trust big government and most of all, trust the nice people wearing badges, it means they are good and always do the right thing.
 

FallonJeeper

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2011
Messages
576
Location
Fallon, NV
what i hear from democrats: bush did it too

Yes, he did, but he never proclaimed the war on terror was over, and then used fighting terror as justification.

Also, a source at NBC News (Michael Isikoff) reports that the FBI has "dramatically increased its use of a controversial provision of the Patriot Act to secretly obtain a vast store of business records of U.S. citizens under President Barack Obama." The FBI filed 212 requests for this kind of data in a national security court last year, which represents a 1,000-percent increase from the number of similar requests four years prior.
 
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davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
just starting to see stories about folks saying that this type of activity goes too far... Al Gore (who actually quoted Ben Franklin ~ I did not think he ever knew the safety/liberty quote lol) ...

This may actually be picking up steam ...
 

Ca Patriot

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
2,330
Location
, ,
Instead of spying on 125 million innocent American citizens, wouldn't it make more sense to have a logical immigration policy that prevents millions of uknown people into America ? There is no reason why America should be letting untold numbers of middle eastern male muslims into America.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Instead of spying on 125 million innocent American citizens, wouldn't it make more sense to have a logical immigration policy that prevents millions of uknown people into America ? There is no reason why America should be letting untold numbers of middle eastern male muslims into America.

Instead of spying on 125 million innocent Americans, wouldn't it make more sense to intern Ca Patriot's family?
 
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