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Thread: talk with off duty LEO

  1. #1
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    talk with off duty LEO

    Was at Home Depot in Florence and parked next to a car with FOP plates and driver setting in it.
    My wife and I got out and walked in front of his car nothing said.
    As we got back to the car He asked why I OC such a big gun (I had my full size 1911 w/10rd mag
    in a thigh rig) and not CC. I told him I wanted to show other people
    that it was ok to OC and that I was making a statement about the 2A.
    My wife asked if he was a cop and he said yes she then asked what dept.
    His answer was why what did it matter. she asked again and he said Florence.
    We talked a little bit more something about calls for MWG I said that it was not RAS or PC.
    He made the statement that the call was PC to stop.
    After that I just said bye.
    No use talking anymore.

    Mike

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    Strange how VIOLATING NO LAW results in the claim of Probable Cause to stop (detain, arrest). Didn't he Supreme Court already rule the exercise of a RIGHT CANNOT be converted to a crime?

    Now, if the officer chooses to drive by and observe or even initiate a CONSENSUAL ENCOUNTER, I have no problem. As long as the officer doesn't take offence at my refusal to engage in said CONSENSUAL ENCOUNTER and I proceed UNIMPEDED on my way!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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  3. #3
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    A FOP sticker does not mean COP. Most cops do not put stickers on their car. Your wife or you should have asked for ID when he identified himself as a off duty cop. I am betting he would have shut up and left.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Most cops do not put stickers on their car.
    Wow, much of a poorly focussed broad brush statement? My first hint of the despite I hold for cops was the band-of-blue, "Oh please Brother in Blue, cut me some slack and I'll do the same for you." The PD with which I was associated held BoB stickers the same as gratuities which were strictly forbidden.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    A FOP sticker does not mean COP. Most cops do not put stickers on their car. Your wife or you should have asked for ID when he identified himself as a off duty cop. I am betting he would have shut up and left.
    The OP said FOP plates. That means "license plates", which are not stickers... however, I don't know what the qualifications are in KY to get and renew such plates.
    Last edited by BB62; 06-10-2013 at 10:40 AM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    The OP said FOP plates. That means "license plates", which are not stickers... however, I don't know what the qualifications are in KY to get and renew such plates.
    I would imagine it is the same as most states, you request them at the tag office. I would never put anything on my vehicle identifying it as belonging to a LEO. Most others I worked with or knew felt the same way, when off duty we wanted to be off duty. Nor did we want to come out to a vehicle with slashed tires. Many people get stickers, with donation, or specialty plates thinking they will get cut some slack, a small percentage are cop wannabes. I suspect the person in this instance was a cop wannabe.

    Hint, if a person has a Wright bros plate in NC, it does not mean they are a pilot...
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-10-2013 at 10:46 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps1mhd View Post
    Was at Home Depot in Florence and parked next to a car with FOP plates and driver setting in it.
    My wife and I got out and walked in front of his car nothing said.
    As we got back to the car He asked why I OC such a big gun (I had my full size 1911 w/10rd mag
    in a thigh rig) and not CC. I told him I wanted to show other people
    that it was ok to OC and that I was making a statement about the 2A.
    My wife asked if he was a cop and he said yes she then asked what dept.
    His answer was why what did it matter. she asked again and he said Florence.
    We talked a little bit more something about calls for MWG I said that it was not RAS or PC.
    He made the statement that the call was PC to stop.
    After that I just said bye.
    No use talking anymore.

    Mike
    I would have been sorely tempted to find a pay phone (if there are still any in the area) and make an anonymous 911 call about a suspicious man sitting in (car description) in front of (store) watching people going in and out of the store, might even throw in I suspect he may be armed.

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    I would like to suggest writing a formal complaint to his PD and getting him straightened out before he really does illegally seize some poor citizen merely exercising the fundamental human right of self-defense.

    I would include commentary about his completely contradicting himself. If a MWAG call is all he needs for PC for a stop, then why didn't he seize you when he personally observed you?

    I'd be sure to raise a loud objection that he was trying to chill exercising the right to OC, revealed in his question about why OC instead of CC. In a nutshell, he first revealed his interest in OC by asking about it against CC, then tried to scare you about OCing by saying a mere MWAG call was PC for a stop. That wasn't a peace officer, or even a law enforcement officer; that was an opinion enforcement officer. He knows its legal. He knows a call merely alleging legal activity provides neither reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) nor probable cause (PC). He was trying to scare you out of OCing. We've seen it before. Its just a variation on the old cop comment that he's going to keep detaining the OCer every time he sees him. Its not a matter of law; there is no reason to argue the law--he already knows it. Its an attempt to intimidate you into waiving an enumerated right.

    Just include a description of him and his car to the best of your recollection.
    Last edited by Citizen; 06-10-2013 at 11:27 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I would have just kept on doing my business and ignored his ignorant question.

  10. #10
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    I would have told him to 'Go <blank> himself'. I find that saying that gets the point across well, and it really peeves cops off because they know the phrase is protected speech and I'd make them my personal ATM if they tried to retaliate against protected speech.

    Don't be afraid to use your words, dude, there's a time and a place for everything, sometimes is a good call to talk, sometimes to walk away, and sometimes a well placed F-Bomb counts just as well when you're dealing with a troll with a badge.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    I would have told him to 'Go <blank> himself'. I find that saying that gets the point across well, and it really peeves cops off because they know the phrase is protected speech and I'd make them my personal ATM if they tried to retaliate against protected speech.

    Don't be afraid to use your words, dude, there's a time and a place for everything, sometimes is a good call to talk, sometimes to walk away, and sometimes a well placed F-Bomb counts just as well when you're dealing with a troll with a badge.
    I don't know about that. If a cop is verbally threatening an illegal seizure, he's already proven he's a bad cop. How far is he willing to go? There is little doubt he would also be willing to lie in pre-trial hearings and court. Don't forget that cops usually enjoy a certain high level of presumption of credibility from the courts, and juries for that matter.

    All it takes is for the bad cop to cook up an arrestable offense, or twist the law and make an arrest, and suddenly your voice-recorder is seized as part of the search incident to arrest. So, a bad cop now has your recording in his hands. Care to take bets whether the recording disappears, or even the whole voice-recorder? "No, your honor. He must have forgot to turn it on." Or, "No, your honor. I have the entire inventory list right here of everything we took out of his pockets. There's no voice-recorder."

    Also, does anybody recall when Ron Paul's campaign treasurer was seized a few years ago by the federal airport goons because he had (gasp!) about $3K cash in a box? He recorded the thuggish threats the goons made in the back room. He remained calm and very reasonable, while the goons made themselves look like, well, obvious goons, with their abusive language and threats. On the recording, he came out looking like the epitome of the good guy just because he remained very calm and didn't raise his voice or argue with them. So, don't lose your voice-recorder by being arrested. If you do your part during the encounter, the voice-recorder can do more than just prove what the cop said.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I don't know about that. If a cop is verbally threatening an illegal seizure, he's already proven he's a bad cop. How far is he willing to go? There is little doubt he would also be willing to lie in pre-trial hearings and court. Don't forget that cops usually enjoy a certain high level of presumption of credibility from the courts, and juries for that matter.

    All it takes is for the bad cop to cook up an arrestable offense, or twist the law and make an arrest, and suddenly your voice-recorder is seized as part of the search incident to arrest. So, a bad cop now has your recording in his hands. Care to take bets whether the recording disappears, or even the whole voice-recorder? "No, your honor. He must have forgot to turn it on." Or, "No, your honor. I have the entire inventory list right here of everything we took out of his pockets. There's no voice-recorder."

    Also, does anybody recall when Ron Paul's campaign treasurer was seized a few years ago by the federal airport goons because he had (gasp!) about $3K cash in a box? He recorded the thuggish threats the goons made in the back room. He remained calm and very reasonable, while the goons made themselves look like, well, obvious goons, with their abusive language and threats. On the recording, he came out looking like the epitome of the good guy just because he remained very calm and didn't raise his voice or argue with them. So, don't lose your voice-recorder by being arrested. If you do your part during the encounter, the voice-recorder can do more than just prove what the cop said.
    You make a good counter-point, Sir. Although a bad cop could lie, and forge documents to reflect the absence of a stolen voice/video recorder, it's much harder to do that when you use not only your iPhone's voice recorder, but also place a call prior to OC'ing, into your homes answering machine set up on a line that is private and solely dedicated to recording phone calls you place to it; as such is the case that I myself personally do prior to OC'ing in any big box store.

    It'd be pretty hard to say; "No, your honor. I have the entire inventory list right here of everything took out of his pockets. There's no voice recorder", when cell phone records would prove a call was in its duration during the stop, the answering machines recording held every audible word and sound, and all showed the same thing, an off-duty cop being a epic <blank>

    Kinda like how my home, and yard is under constant video and audio surveillance, and the recordings is kept in a very secure location that would be nigh impossible to find and broken into by someone who doesn't have the 32 digit pass code that only I have memorized.
    Last edited by DrakeZ07; 06-11-2013 at 01:04 PM. Reason: spelling
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  13. #13
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    To obtain a FOP license plate you must prove membership with the FOP
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    To obtain a FOP license plate you must prove membership with the FOP

    (4) Fraternal Order of Police license plate: provide a copy of the applicant’s current membership card from the Fraternal Order of Police. The reverse side of the membership card shall be signed by the National Secretary of the Grand Lodge, Fraternal Order of Police;

    The FOPA is a civilian affiliate of the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP). Our members are friends and families of law enforcement Officers, responsible and respected business persons, professional men and women, and citizens from all walks of life—people willing to devote a portion of their time and efforts toward assisting the various law enforcement agencies of our communities, states and nation.

    The FOPA is part of a national organization known as the Grand Lodge Fraternal Order of Police Associates with local Lodges throughout the nation. The GLFOPA is a non-stock charitable corporation as defined by Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code. Lodges that are members of the GLFOPA are entitled to share the tax exempt status. Any contributions made to those Lodges are tax exempt. The corporation is a non-partisan organization without regard to race, creed, color or religious belief.

    The FOPA's interests revolve around law enforcement and the men and women that have dedicated their lives to the protection of ours.

    The FOPA actively supports legislation, charitable causes, and all law enforcement efforts on a local, state and national level.


    Most people here have associate membership to sheriff's association, and no they are not deputies, many of them have license plates. A sticker or plate means nothing.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-11-2013 at 07:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    To obtain a FOP license plate you must prove membership with the FOP
    Or just "find one" new/old lol ... then cut out the parameter and weld it to another , maybe a "forest" special plate with your # so it all looks good....then bingo...FOP license plate.

    Why else did I spend $$$ on a plasma cutter and welding system lol

  16. #16
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Or just "find one" new/old lol ... then cut out the parameter and weld it to another , maybe a "forest" special plate with your # so it all looks good....then bingo...FOP license plate.

    Why else did I spend $$$ on a plasma cutter and welding system lol
    Don't even need to do that, just take the sticker they send in junk mail looking for donations, and put it on the plate.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    To obtain a FOP license plate you must prove membership with the FOP
    Does auxiliary membership count?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    parameter?
    Yeah. Its a meter to measure para's.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Yeah. Its a meter to measure para's.
    As in para-militaries?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Don't you just hate when the Spell check feature does not catch the correctly spell UNINTENDED word used instead of the INTENDED one?

    Parameter vs PERIMETER LOL!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Don't you just hate when the Spell check feature does not catch the correctly spell UNINTENDED word used instead of the INTENDED one?

    Parameter vs PERIMETER LOL!
    Yeah!
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    As in para-militaries?
    Nuh-uh. Para's as in 4 Para (4th Parachute Regiment) under His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales.
    Last edited by Citizen; 06-14-2013 at 09:54 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Yeah!
    Glad I could help you see with an example!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  24. #24
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    To get an FOP plate in KY you must be a member of the FOP. To become a member of the FOP you must be a sworn peace officer with an agency that is recognized by the FOP (certain officers with federal agencies can also become members as can certain individuals with the KY COJ). Family members cannot be members in the FOP or anyone else. Most FOP members are local police officers, sheriffs and deputy sheriffs, and jailers and deputy jailers, all of which are sworn peace officers with county wide jurisdiction to enforce the law.

    If he had FOP plates then it's likely he had arrest powers, unless he was driving someone's car that is.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 06-16-2013 at 07:11 PM.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    ... Family members cannot be members in the FOP or anyone else. ...
    They can be "auxiliary members," which is why I asked if auxiliary members qualify.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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