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TPD Suicide by cop scenario.

WalkingWolf

WalkingWolf

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pkbites said:
One does not use a Taser in a gun fight. A Taser is not the proper tool to use when dealing with a non-compliant subject holding a firearm.
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Well that is not true, a not every problem is solved with a hammer, even if it looks like a nail. Most police avoid shooting people if possible, and yes even when the other person is armed. It just depends on the circumstances. And a taser is much more effective than a gun, if it can be deployed.
 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

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WalkingWolf said:
. And a taser is much more effective than a gun, if it can be deployed.
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Maybe maybe not, there have been a lots of documented taser failures.

If the situation is right backed up by lethal means with proper cover then using a taser could be a option. I have seen some really good taserings worked like a charm, then I seen them fail nothing is 100 percent.

When a person is threating violence against another with a distance weapon like a firearm it is very dangerous to assume that they well not use it or that they would miss. Once the bullets start flying its to late to call them back.
 
Sonora Rebel

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Citizen said:
Why would the OPer give ammunition to anti-gunners by characterizing the deceased as an OCer?

To illustrate by contrast, why didn't the OPer title the thread: Three OCers gun down another OCer? Any thread involving uniformed police officers could be titled "OCers..."

Why not give the anti-gunners some real ammo: "Three OCers gun down woman who desperately needed mental help."

Or, "OCers invade Iraq and Afghanistan" Or, ....



I think y'all get my point.
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You have no point. The gun was holstered on her side. If that's not 'open carry' I have no other term for it. She pulled the weapon and refused commands to drop it. These were TPD cops... not 3 OC'rs. They reacted according to the presented threat (as most of us would). Mental health aside... they're not there to psychoanalyze the persons reasons. If somebody points a gun at you... are you going to evaluate why? 'Snooze, ya lose!
 
WalkingWolf

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Sonora Rebel said:
You have no point. The gun was holstered on her side. If that's not 'open carry' I have no other term for it. She pulled the weapon and refused commands to drop it. These were TPD cops... not 3 OC'rs. They reacted according to the presented threat (as most of us would). Mental health aside... they're not there to psychoanalyze the persons reasons. If somebody points a gun at you... are you going to evaluate why? 'Snooze, ya lose!
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If I can find another option, outside deadly force, I will use it. One can avoid enormous hassles, and grief if it is possible to avoid shooting. As to the information we have the shooting was justified, and they will get much less grief than a citizen would. But if a LAC were in the same situation the very same police would be looking up your backside, front side, upside down and every which way. I personally have no desire to shoot another person, for any reason, and only would do it if I was forced. Better be damn sure you have your ducks in a row if you decide to shoot instead of snooze.
 
C

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Sonora Rebel said:
You have no point. The gun was holstered on her side. If that's not 'open carry' I have no other term for it. She pulled the weapon and refused commands to drop it. These were TPD cops... not 3 OC'rs. They reacted according to the presented threat (as most of us would). Mental health aside... they're not there to psychoanalyze the persons reasons. If somebody points a gun at you... are you going to evaluate why? 'Snooze, ya lose!
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So, by your definition none of the cops had a handgun holstered on their side? They were all carrying long-arms? They were all carrying CC?
 
FreeInAZ

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Words matter

Just my take on this - I define a OCer as a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN. This usually means a person who proprely carries pistol in a holster while going about their daily life for protection. Once a person steps outside the law; they are a criminal. We do not know all the details yet. Until we can get the final findings of the inquiry board etc.. or more details from witnesses, let's all take a deep breath & give the fighting a break please. Remeber this woman has a family. Please let's try to remeber that. :cry:
 
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pkbites

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WalkingWolf said:
If I can find another option, outside deadly force, I will use it. One can avoid enormous hassles, and grief if it is possible to avoid shooting.
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North Carolina, huh? Hows that one bullet in your shirt pocket? (*SLAP!* ow!:eek: runs away).

In the real world there is usually just a split second to decide and act. Rarely is there time to "find another option". Usually the other option is to die!!!!!! I'd much go through "hassles and grief" than to have my wife collect on my life insurance.

Going strictly on what was provided in the linked story the very idea of using a Taser is insane. Some others here have made police bashing statements. There is a time to hold police officers feet to the fire, but not when they reacted properly!
 
J

joanie

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SFCRetired said:
Not to defend the cops here, but I will guarantee you that, should you point a weapon at this old, non-LEO type, I will take the appropriate action.

None of us were there, none of us know the distances involved, and none of us know whether or not the cops had any other viable options. Personal opinion: This looks, from the available information, very much like another "suicide by cop". No, Joanie, I do not buy into your particular theory.
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Fine believe what you want. Just so you know, and anyone/everyone else, I would never point a gun at a human being, that includes police, and I enjoy very much being alive. I should start writing that down in various places it would be found. Or at least get a voice recorder and a better video camera.
 
Red Dawg

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The absolute last thing i wish to do is use my gun on another human, but, I'd like to keep that option open for as long as possible. Maybe they could have deployed tasers. Maybe they could have talked her down. Maybe they could have just rushed and tackled her. I don't know, I wasn't there. You weren't either. I hope, as most will, that the officers involved did their best with what they had to work with and made the right decision. They have to live with it for the rest of their life. Good shoot or not.

As anyone with any long term experience will tell you. It will undoubtedly change your life if you are forced to pull the trigger on another human. No matter what...
 
WalkingWolf

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pkbites said:
North Carolina, huh? Hows that one bullet in your shirt pocket? (*SLAP!* ow!:eek: runs away).

In the real world there is usually just a split second to decide and act. Rarely is there time to "find another option". Usually the other option is to die!!!!!! I'd much go through "hassles and grief" than to have my wife collect on my life insurance.

Going strictly on what was provided in the linked story the very idea of using a Taser is insane. Some others here have made police bashing statements. There is a time to hold police officers feet to the fire, but not when they reacted properly!
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Just how many shoot/don't shoot situations have you been in? How many professional encounters with the mentally ill have you had? Please tell us ohhhh wise one what is YOUR expert experience?

And what has one bullet in a shirt pocket to do with this OP, what a ignorant off topic remark. I can only conclude that it was veiled personal insult that clearly has backfired. Clue, stop watching tv for your talking points, it's very dumb.
 
pkbites

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WalkingWolf said:
Just how many shoot/don't shoot situations have you been in?
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Several. My first one was on my third week on the job in '82. The last one was just a few weeks back when a guy jumped out of his truck and walked toward me with a lawn mower blade in a gloved hand. Had he not stopped and dropped it when told there would be a media account of the result.

WalkingWolf said:
How many professional encounters with the mentally ill have you had?
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Zillions. I would estimate at least half of our homeless in the Milwaukee metro area are mentally ill to some degree or another. And I deal with them almost EVERY working day!
This ontop of people who aren't homeless but have some form of mental illness.



WalkingWolf said:
And what has one bullet in a shirt pocket to do with this OP, what a ignorant off topic remark. I can only conclude that it was veiled personal insult that clearly has backfired. Clue, stop watching tv for your talking points, it's very dumb.
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It was a joke, son, a joke! Hence the (*SLAP!* ow! :eek: runs away) Don't tell me you've never made a Cheeshead joke.:rolleyes:
 
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WalkingWolf

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It was ignorant personal insult by a person lacking skills to make their point without going to tv shows.

Taking by my own experience I have no reason to believe your claims. People who have been in those situations do not relish shooting people without using good common sense.

Sling Blade? LMAO! :lol:
 
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pkbites

pkbites

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WalkingWolf said:
It was ignorant personal insult by a person lacking skills to make their point without going to tv shows.

Taking by my own experience I have no reason to believe your claims. People who have been in those situations do not relish shooting people without using good common sense.

Sling Blade? LMAO! :lol:
Click to expand...

Where have I said I relish shooting people? What I relish is going home at the end of my shift! My previous statements are from pure training and experience. I have been in training where the instructors consistently drilled that a Taser/baton/OC were not the proper tools when a subject was armed with a firearm.

And the subject with the lawn mower blade was one of these dopes that think they should get out of their vehicle and scurry back to the squad car as soon as they are pulled over.
 
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WalkingWolf

WalkingWolf

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pkbites said:
Where have I said I relish shooting people? What I relish is going home at the end of my shift! My previous statements are from pure training and experience. I have been in training where the instructors consistently drilled that a Taser/baton/OC were not the proper tools when a subject was armed with a firearm.

And the subject with the lawn mower blade was one of these dopes that think they should get out of their vehicle walk back to the squad car as soon as they are pulled over.
Click to expand...

It is my opinion of your posting, and your posting insults based on my posts. Where did I say the police in this incident were not justified? I didn't, but you posted it anyway. Act like a jack arse, get treated like one.

Yea just like the one bullet comment from a tv show you return with a comment from a well known movie... :lol:
 
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W

wrightme

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joanie said:
I don't believe this story, she had something big on the cops and proof to back it up so they killed her and came up with this bogus story.
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Oh my goodness. :rolleyes:

joanie said:
Fine believe what you want. Just so you know, and anyone/everyone else, I would never point a gun at a human being, that includes police, and I enjoy very much being alive. I should start writing that down in various places it would be found. Or at least get a voice recorder and a better video camera.
Click to expand...

Do NOT make the mistake of assuming that the woman in this story is identical to you.
 
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Sonora Rebel

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Citizen said:
So, by your definition none of the cops had a handgun holstered on their side? They were all carrying long-arms? They were all carrying CC?
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You're either drunk or stupid. I made no such definition. Uniformed cops carry their weapons openly. Cops... as opposed to LAC's are not 'OC'rs'. They're cops... Gunbelts are the norm. You just enjoy being an obtuse pain in the ass.
 
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