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Question re commercial vs reloaded self defense ammo

POPS VA

Regular Member
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Nov 20, 2012
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Location
King George VA
On friday while picking something up from my local FFL holder, we got to talking about reloading self defense ammo and he made the suggestion that I use commercial ammo in my carry handgun. When I asked why, he stated that were I to be in court after a self defense shooting using my own reloads, the CA would probably explain to the court that I was building ammo specifically designed to create exessive bodily damage and to kill. My first reaction was BS, but these days the anti 2As will not only blame the gun, but the ammo as well. So I turn this over to better minds than mine and I thank you all in advance for your input.
 

POPS VA

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King George VA
I use commercial FEDERAL EFMJ for performance reliability.

Exactly what I have in my safe, but my reloads, for the most part, work much better than the commercial ammo I have purchased. I guess I didn't really ask the question, have there been any cases in Va. where the reloaded ammo was used by a CA against a LAC in court?
 

ProShooter

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Exactly what I have in my safe, but my reloads, for the most part, work much better than the commercial ammo I have purchased. I guess I didn't really ask the question, have there been any cases in Va. where the reloaded ammo was used by a CA against a LAC in court?

None that I have ever heard of, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was a case somewhere.
 

marshaul

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The only case Ayoob has which is at all convincing is the guy who's wife shot herself with reduced recoil handloads which left no "GSR". The police compared to factory loads which did. He was convicted, if I recall, of murder.

Seems like a pretty unlikely scenario.

(BTW, "GSR" is junk science.)
 

WalkingWolf

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User has answered this several times, do a search maybe you can find one of the other threads where he clarified it. Not speaking for him, but if I remember correctly you are either justified to use deadly force or you are not.
 

peter nap

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User has answered this several times, do a search maybe you can find one of the other threads where he clarified it. Not speaking for him, but if I remember correctly you are either justified to use deadly force or you are not.

Exactly!

That said, the bullet selection may be getting a little slimmer. Skidmark told me today Solid Brass and Copper bullets are now consider armor piercing (Of course I never use any of those nasty things Barns makes).
 

POPS VA

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
94
Location
King George VA
The only case Ayoob has which is at all convincing is the guy who's wife shot herself with reduced recoil handloads which left no "GSR". The police compared to factory loads which did. He was convicted, if I recall, of murder.

Seems like a pretty unlikely scenario.

(BTW, "GSR" is junk science.)

OK I'm hooked, why is GSR junk science. I thought that was a benchmark in ivestigative techniques where a firearm was discharged :confused:
 

POPS VA

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Messages
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King George VA
User has answered this several times, do a search maybe you can find one of the other threads where he clarified it. Not speaking for him, but if I remember correctly you are either justified to use deadly force or you are not.

Thanks, I'll look for the thread, I'd love to see User's take on this
 

marshaul

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I thought that was a benchmark in ivestigative techniques where a firearm was discharged :confused:

A lack of "GSR" does not indicate that the individual has not fired a gun (e.g. reduced recoil handloads, apparently). A presence of "GSR" equally does not indicate that the individual has fired a gun ("GSR" tests can be positive for substances other than actual gun shot residue).

"GSR" is something that actors say on CSI to sound cool, but it isn't a useful forensic technique.
 
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POPS VA

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
94
Location
King George VA
A lack of "GSR" does not indicate that the individual has not fired a gun (e.g. reduced recoil handloads, apparently). A presence of "GSR" equally does not indicate that the individual has fired a gun ("GSR" tests can be positive for substances other than actual gun shot residue).

"GSR" is something that actors say on CSI to sound cool, but it isn't a useful forensic technique.

Thank you for the clarification, I was just a little curious :)
 

WalkingWolf

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Exactly!

That said, the bullet selection may be getting a little slimmer. Skidmark told me today Solid Brass and Copper bullets are now consider armor piercing (Of course I never use any of those nasty things Barns makes).

I read that also, gonna be tough for those folks in CA. They can't use lead, and now they can't use brass or copper. Guess bullets will have to be made out of cotton candy there.
 

peter nap

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I read that also, gonna be tough for those folks in CA. They can't use lead, and now they can't use brass or copper. Guess bullets will have to be made out of cotton candy there.

Since there are so many Zinc Wheelweights out there now, I've been playing with it. If you adjust the bullet length to compensate for the lighter weight, they shoot fairly well.

I also expect this rule to be challenged by the bullet makers.
 
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The Wolfhound

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Sep 3, 2009
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Location
Henrico, Virginia, USA
Brass yes but copper,no

I read that also, gonna be tough for those folks in CA. They can't use lead, and now they can't use brass or copper. Guess bullets will have to be made out of cotton candy there.
The solid copper bullets are still marketed just like the copper jacketed lead. Turned brass bullets DID get moved to the Armor Peircing category, damn it. I have seen some very light and very fast solid tin loads that intrigue me. 1900fps out of a .45ACP just seems cool.:lol:
 

user

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Northern Piedmont
I don' t remember exactly what I said before, and the search function on this website is notoriously ineffective. But I think the summaries of my opinion stated already were correct. I'd have used the technical legal term which is unpublishable, but starting with "bull" or alternatively, "horse" (a technical term coming from our Anglo-Saxon past legal history).

If you have a good and necessary reason to shoot, then you've got a good and necessary reason to shoot. Nothing else matters at that point. If you're charged with a crime, the eight-hundred pound gorilla in the room is going to be the fact that you shot someone; everyone's going to know it and there's no point in dancing around it. So my position is that you should meet it head on, and be prepared to testify that, in the situation you were facing, it was a good thing you were adequately prepared to meet the contingency. If you're found guilty, there's a possibility that such stuff could be used in sentencing, but even there it's not really relevant to anything whether you're using hollow-points, lightened springs, skeletonized hammer, a lasergrip, or whether the shape of your nose is aquiline or bulbous.
 

MAC702

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Jul 31, 2011
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Nevada
If I had an opposing lawyer resort to my ammunition being reloaded, I'd be celebrating my impending acquittal or lawsuit victory.

FWIW, I carry my reloads. Of course, I'm also in Nevada/Utah/Arizona. I can't speak for the culture in VA.

The guy at the gun shop sells ammunition. Have you any idea what the profit margin is on self-defense ammunition?
 
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WalkingWolf

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If I had an opposing lawyer resort to my ammunition being reloaded, I'd be celebrating my impending acquittal or lawsuit victory.

FWIW, I carry my reloads. Of course, I'm also in Nevada/Utah/Arizona. I can't speak for the culture in VA.

The guy at the gun shop sells ammunition. Have you any idea what the profit margin is on self-defense ammunition?

Except for a few exceptions I also carry my own reloads. I do not reload 9X18, so that is about the only factory ammo I use.
 
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