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Thread: Open Carry and the Opinions of Some "Experts"

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    Regular Member KySIGGuy's Avatar
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    Open Carry and the Opinions of Some "Experts"


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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    I saw that.

    Kinda like taking a bunch of guys who build race car engines, and polling them on what car makes the best taxi cab. Their expertise does not directly correlate to the question. The author even pointed out that they all pretty much do not open carry, so they're providing an opinion on a topic for which they have no experience.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Another person who hates OC just because he does not have the balls to do it himself. OC folks don't worry about CC folks, I can't understand how anyone can be so obsessive as these people. Is it jealousy or just outright stupidity?
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    as far as these "experts"go most of them make their money on CC permits. the whole article made it clear that all OC was done by moronic mouth breathers. seems like they didn't do their history.

    if open carry is so bad why do all cops do it?

    it is a shame in America when hiding you gun is thought to be better then letting everyone see you are carrying
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    as far as these "experts"go most of them make their money on CC permits. the whole article made it clear that all OC was done by moronic mouth breathers. seems like they didn't do their history.

    if open carry is so bad why do all cops do it?

    it is a shame in America when hiding you gun is thought to be better then letting everyone see you are carrying
    Yea I am going back and forth with one of those CC only folks on SLS. He is absolutely blowing a gasket, not the type of person who should be carrying in any mode.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Yea I am going back and forth with one of those CC only folks on SLS. He is absolutely blowing a gasket, not the type of person who should be carrying in any mode.
    I quit reading the OP linked page about 2/3 of the way through the main post. The comments in this thread pretty much sum it up.


    Regarding people blowing a gasket shouldn't be carrying guns, you got me to thinking. I wonder if its because of people like that--intolerant, and totally sure of their opinion--that the rest of us should have the 2nd Amendment and guns. Certainly, he's only half a step away from being willing to compel you to carry the way he thinks you should, which takes no stretch or leap of logic to conclude he'd probably be willing to dictate to you lots of other things you should and shouldn't do. And, I'll be he's even willing to try for that by voting and hoping for membership in the majority.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkingwolf View Post
    yea i am going back and forth with one of those cc only folks on sls. He is absolutely blowing a gasket, not the type of person who should be carrying in any mode.
    sls?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    sls?
    Swinglifestyle, they have very active forums, and I participate in the political forum. Actually had not been on there for over a week, just peeked in on a conversation where NRA was brought up.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Swinglifestyle, they have very active forums, and I participate in the political forum. Actually had not been on there for over a week, just peeked in on a conversation where NRA was brought up.
    Ah, thanks.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    I so hate the attitude of some CCers that they believe their way of carrying is the only acceptable method. Anybody that disagrees is wrong. For cryin' out loud just carry the way that makes you happy, and let everybody else do the same. Rant complete.”
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    I so hate the attitude of some CCers that they believe their way of carrying is the only acceptable method. Anybody that disagrees is wrong. For cryin' out loud just carry the way that makes you happy, and let everybody else do the same. Rant complete.”
    +1
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member LeMat's Avatar
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    Re: Open Carry and the Opinions of Some "Experts"

    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    I so hate the attitude of some CCers that they believe their way of carrying is the only acceptable method. Anybody that disagrees is wrong. For cryin' out loud just carry the way that makes you happy, and let everybody else do the same. Rant complete.”
    I wish more folks felt this way.




    Sent from my TT Capsule Type 40, Mk I TARDIS
    "Never belittle someone for carrying a small firearm. Commend them for carrying a firearm."
    -OpenCarry.org member MAC702

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I wonder if its because of people like that--intolerant, and totally sure of their opinion-.

    Ive noticed as ive gotten older that it seems like everyone is intolerant of everything whether you are gay and intolerant of straight people or visa versa, CC vs OC, liberal vs conservative...... for all the online debates i read about politics, gun control, gay/straight, ive never once seen ANYONE say "good point, im switching sides".

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    Ive noticed as ive gotten older that it seems like everyone is intolerant of everything whether you are gay and intolerant of straight people or visa versa, CC vs OC, liberal vs conservative...... for all the online debates i read about politics, gun control, gay/straight, ive never once seen ANYONE say "good point, im switching sides".
    It's strange that as I get older I become more tolerant, I always heard it was the opposite...
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    Ive noticed as ive gotten older that it seems like everyone is intolerant of everything whether you are gay and intolerant of straight people or visa versa, CC vs OC, liberal vs conservative...... for all the online debates i read about politics, gun control, gay/straight, ive never once seen ANYONE say "good point, im switching sides".
    Some actually do alter their viewpoints, maybe not doing a 180, but still making significant changes.

    However, as I often point out, I rarely try to change the mind of the person with whom I am debating. I am hoping that a lot of non-participants are reading the threads. It is they whom I hope to reach. I let the opposition bluster, insult, react emotionally, resort to insults, et cetera. I'll point out what they are doing, but I try to post rational arguments for my positions. When folks observe rational and adult versus emotional and childish, they tend to be swayed to the rational POV.

    BTW, I don't recall reading many of your posts. I hope this is appropriate: Welcome!

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    i find it funny how this is a hardcore OC fourm yet at the top of the home page i see an advertisement for crossbreed CC holsters. i know they have OWB holsters but they are known for their CC holsters.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g21sfpistol View Post
    i find it funny how this is a hardcore OC fourm yet at the top of the home page i see an advertisement for crossbreed CC holsters. i know they have OWB holsters but they are known for their CC holsters.
    A lot of the adds have to do with your cookies, you visit a site and if they are using google ad services the ads will show up on OCDO pages.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    "CC experts are fearful of..."

    I think the major drive for CC "experts" is fear, fear of other's opinions (including other "experts" and anti's), fear of politics, fear of being called names, fear of straw men arguments that hay've made up with no proof ect., fear of their follow law abiding citizen that he/she didn't attend one of their classes and thus can't be trusted with a firearm.

    Yes, there is a twinge of pride in that they are the elites of the gun world and they have a permission slip by the government saying so. If you don't have said permission slip you aren't worthy to have an opinion based on facts only follow the "experts" emotional laced arguments of why a person shouldn't OC: 1st one shot, you'll be a target, element of surprise, people will scream and run away. Though these things can happen it's not the norm they portray it as.

    I'm not here to say there is only one way to carry only to carry as many have said before.
    Don't confuse me with the facts, I have my emotions!

    I guess that's the difference between no crime and "stopping" a crime in progress. I prefer no crime.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    I saw that.

    Kinda like taking a bunch of guys who build race car engines, and polling them on what car makes the best taxi cab. Their expertise does not directly correlate to the question. The author even pointed out that they all pretty much do not open carry, so they're providing an opinion on a topic for which they have no experience.
    A bunch of C2I2 types like concealed carry better than open carry. What a surprise!




    C2I2 = Concealed Carry Instruction Industry
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    I so hate the attitude of some CCers that they believe their way of carrying is the only acceptable method. Anybody that disagrees is wrong. For cryin' out loud just carry the way that makes you happy, and let everybody else do the same. Rant complete.”
    I feel like they were trying to say that it was more the "right" way of carrying opposed to "acceptable".
    "Gun control is the use of both hands".

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    Regular Member KySIGGuy's Avatar
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    http://www.recoilweb.com/handgun-ope...ond-27619.html

    Looks as though the article has spawned another one. It also appears that the article was recently edited and had some more "experts" weigh in.

    *EDIT TWO 09:59 CST 13 JUN: I was able to speak to Steve Fisher and Brannon LeBouef late Tuesday and Wednesday morning. Their comments are now below. Stand by for later today (6/13/13) for a follow-up article with the result of conversations with Rick Ector, John Pierce and Ian Houston. I was not able to reach Kyle Lamb of Viking Tactics – my guess is he’s out somewhere they speak Alutiiq stalking a Kodiak with his pocket knife. I’ve also added the ‘Editorial’ label in the category section.

    __________

    “My stance on it is this—. I like the debate of it. [Open carry] is a right, it should be done, but it should be done smartly…I also believe in the surprise element of concealed carry, the advantage, but I understand that it is our right to carry a gun openly. Which, I have done on many occasions. We’ve been doing it since the invention of a firearm. It’s kind of like the debate of 9mm vs. 45. Who cares, as long as the person is smart about it and responsible? I see no difference between the two arguments. Training is important. If you’re going to open carry, get a good retention holster and also look at getting further training with someone like Craig Douglas ECQC, something that trains you on situational awareness and close combatives…” Steve Fisher Magpul Dynamics

    __________

    “I always have, and continue to, support the right of every American to openly carry firearms. I believe it to be a fundamental right and an important and historical component of our heritage. This country was “discovered” and built at the muzzle of an openly carried firearm, and it is the Constitutional promise and mandate of that same openly carried firearm that insures America for our children.
    On the political front, it is a form of political expression whether active and deliberate or passive. While some choose the openly carried firearm as the “burning flag” or “back seat of the bus” as their tool of expression, I choose not to because I feel I am more effective in other ways. On the tactical front, I place a higher value on the element of surprise than I do the potential deterrent affect of an openly carried firearm. Concealed carry allows me to act, or not act, based on my decision rather than potentially having my hand forced due to the known presence of my firearm. In many cases, open carry removes options that concealed carry brings to the fight.
    In situations where open carry is the only legal means, like for 18-21 year olds here in Louisiana, where concealed permits are next to impossible to get, or where environmental or tactical considerations dictate them, make the right decision for you. While the media and the internet tend to cast the brightest light on the negative elements of open carry, in my experience, most of the people who choose to do so, do it in a positive and responsible manner mostly unnoticed by those around them. At the end of the day, whether you choose to open carry or conceal carry, first and foremost—carry, and do so responsibly. Do so with the responsibility of training, gear choice, sound decision-making, a calm head, and an even demeanor…” Brannon LeBouef, NOLATAC Firearms

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    I love that element of "surprise" they keep spouting.
    I for the most part don't like CC, there is no "element" of surprise. "Hey mister give me your wallet!" (BG pointing gun at me with no visible weapon). "OK, let me get my gun out of hiding first so I can "surprise" you!". OC option: BG1 to BG2 "Hey man let's go rob somebody else that is weak, and unarmed". BG's are inherently lazy, and have no desire for anything close to a fair fight.

    From another forum from someone who "gets it":
    "Reading this post brought to my attention the fact that most (if not all), of the SD accounts we read about in NRA & other publications seem to involve CC'ers and not OC'ers. In all the years (decades) of reading such stories, I don't remember ONE single article stating the victim "pulled his OC weapon".

    The terms I always see in these articles are statements like: "the victim was able to retrieve a firearm" or something like: "the victim, who has a conceal carry permit pulled their firearm".

    What this tells me is most BGs just don't choose to victimize a person who chooses to OC. But, may by accident pic a CCer to victimize because the look like any other victim out there. "
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-...inquiry-4.html
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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    ........."Reading this post brought to my attention the fact that most (if not all), of the SD accounts we read about in NRA & other publications seem to involve CC'ers and not OC'ers. In all the years (decades) of reading such stories, I don't remember ONE single article stating the victim "pulled his OC weapon".........
    YES! This is truth! I find it amazing that the general population is unaware of all those "non-events" that do not happen to us. We must all be leading sheltered lives (or is that visibly armed lives).

    A group of us set up OC info tables at local events to invite people to OC. Inevitably a CCer will whisper, "I'm concealing now". Strange, the need for them to tell me that they are concealed as tho they were doing something bad. My first thought is always "Not now" to their "confession.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Swinglifestyle, they have very active forums, and I participate in the political forum. Actually had not been on there for over a week, just peeked in on a conversation where NRA was brought up.
    And he only buys Playboy for the articles too

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    And he only buys Playboy for the articles too
    I wouldn't waste my money on Playboy, or Penthouse. When we were active the real thing is much better than books.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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