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Thread: HB 937 hold your nose

  1. #1
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    HB 937 hold your nose

    i had to hold my nose as i sent the senate the letters supporting HB 937. i know it is a concealed carry bill but there are some things that will be good for firearms in general. if you can send your support too

    to.http://paracom.paramountcommunicatio...3&ei=skjbIw6DN
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  2. #2
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    What would be good for firearms in general, there is nothing in that bill for non permit holders. Absolutely nothing.
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  3. #3
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    yeah i know WOLF it stinks. but the carry in restaurants is good even if it is hiding your self defense. it would be good also to park with out them telling you you can't. i would even say they wouldn't know the difference if you didn't have a permit. being able to carry on collage grounds is a plus.

    i know it is in favor of hiding you firearm, but i think it is a advance for carry. lets hope this will be a plus for CC, and not a blow against constitutional carry, in other word the right to carry
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    It will encourage more people to get permission slips and discourage OC.

    After I voted for Bush the second time, I promised myself not to "hold my nose" anymore.
    Last edited by ron73440; 06-11-2013 at 01:53 PM. Reason: my spelling sucks
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    What would be good for firearms in general, there is nothing in that bill for non permit holders. Absolutely nothing.
    Oh really, did you read the bill?

    -Removes handgun permits from public record, rendering them unavailable to the media.-

    -Repeals NC's Jim Crow-era handgun purchase permit system in its entirety.-

    -Expands hunting to include use of sound suppressors.-

    Those all benefit non CHP holders as far as I can tell.

    http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillL...13&BillID=h937
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    Regular Member WTFOVER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    Oh really, did you read the bill?

    -Removes handgun permits from public record, rendering them unavailable to the media.-

    -Repeals NC's Jim Crow-era handgun purchase permit system in its entirety.-

    -Expands hunting to include use of sound suppressors.-

    Those all benefit non CHP holders as far as I can tell.

    http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillL...13&BillID=h937
    Don't even bother. If it doesn't have anything to do with OC Wolf doesn't want to mess with it. He can't seem to get the fact through his head that the state isn't going to bother with OC as they are making money off of CHP and there are over 400,000 people in NC that have CHP's so who do you think the GA is going to focus on?
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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    Oh really, did you read the bill?

    -Removes handgun permits from public record, rendering them unavailable to the media.-

    -Repeals NC's Jim Crow-era handgun purchase permit system in its entirety.-

    -Expands hunting to include use of sound suppressors.-

    Those all benefit non CHP holders as far as I can tell.

    http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillL...13&BillID=h937
    was there really something about the PPP in the bill? i must have missed that when i read it. can you give a cite for that? if it gets rid of the stupid racist laws, i would not have to hold my nose
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    HB 937 hold your nose

    http://www.ncleg.net/Applications/Bi...=5898&SeqNum=0

    Section 17, repeals GS 14-402

    http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislat...GS_14-402.html

    That took forever to find.
    I wanted to see it for myself also.

  9. #9
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Yes the PPP is repealed in the version that will go for a vote today on the Senate floor.

  10. #10
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    was there really something about the PPP in the bill? i must have missed that when i read it. can you give a cite for that? if it gets rid of the stupid racist laws, i would not have to hold my nose
    I have mixed feelings about that. Even though the roots of the law are racist. The PPP allowed a person to buy a gun at a gun show without the insta check long gun or pistol. Though with a pistol the PPP was surrendered.

    I started keeping a current set just for that purpose, because of delays, that went beyond 24 hours. In a local gun shop that is not a problem. But when a person has traveled several hours to a location it is a big pain. So now with that repealed, guess what? The person now needs the coveted elitist card to bypass the insta check. With that it puts more money into the pockets of the CCI crowd. Now instead of costing $5 and a few day wait to buy a gun hassle free, it will take months, and probably a couple hundred dollars.

    Way to go GRNC! You have now made it even more racist and difficult for those in lower income brackets to buy guns.

    If you look at Joanie's thread about being a criminal, you will see how her problems started because she made a long drive for a gun, and was delayed. Though she was mostly off base I understood her being pissed.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-12-2013 at 09:09 AM.
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    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    We need Constitutional Carry!

    Unfortunately, there isn't any money to be made off of OC, also it's more "in your face", so it's hard to get support for it.

    I know the "nose of the camel" arguments, but it seems like the more we do to encourage CC, the harder we make it to bring OC into areas that are CC only.
    What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I would like to find statistics on CHP holders in NC, I have looked online with no luck so far. I may try to find a number with the state and see if I can get some help with it.

    I was at the Harnett County Sheriffs office a couple months ago meeting with a deputy. They were taking CHP submissions while I was there, not one minority, all applicants in the crowded lobby were white.

    So the question is, just how many of you CHP holders are a minority, how many single mothers. People without the money for permits, or even the time managing children and more than one job. Why have I not seen any, and I have looked, free classes for minorities or the lower income class. Why should single mothers, who probably need it the most left out in the cold. IMO GRNC supports elitism, and that elitism is racist whether that is their intention or not.

    Where are the free GRNC sponsored classes? Where is the finacial help/support for those struggling with the expense of a permit? NOW with limited time hard working single moms will have to stand around and get mad with delays on insta check, turning them from the gun community.

    All for the almighty training dollar! Everything GRNC does is intended to eliminate OC and FORCE CHP on the public.

    It is any wonder that the base of the black communities do not support the 2A, with organizations clearly pushing them to the side in the name of the second amendment.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-12-2013 at 09:48 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member dmatting's Avatar
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    I just looked through Article 54B (and you can too! http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...ticle_54B.html) and did not see any mention of using the CHP to purchase a firearm.

    I did see this provision in Article 52A - specifically in 14-402 (http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...ticle_52A.html) which, if this bill passes, will be repealed. I am not familiar with other statutes that deal with this subject, so I will have to defer to any one else who may know of another statute that deals with the sale of firearms and using the CHP for their purchase. Without that, I don't see the CHP being used to purchase a handgun anymore.

  14. #14
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmatting View Post
    I just looked through Article 54B (and you can too! http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...ticle_54B.html) and did not see any mention of using the CHP to purchase a firearm.

    I did see this provision in Article 52A - specifically in 14-402 (http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...ticle_52A.html) which, if this bill passes, will be repealed. I am not familiar with other statutes that deal with this subject, so I will have to defer to any one else who may know of another statute that deals with the sale of firearms and using the CHP for their purchase. Without that, I don't see the CHP being used to purchase a handgun anymore.
    I insta check is a federal requirement, I believe there has been a ruling by the feds that permits may be used for bypassing the check, as long as they meet the criteria. So even with repeal those CHP holders should still bypass the check. But for the remainder of those in the minorities and the lower class, OC was their only option, and the PPP actually helped them buy firearms. I would like some numbers from the GRNC on their member base according to race and income.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member dmatting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I insta check is a federal requirement, I believe there has been a ruling by the feds that permits may be used for bypassing the check, as long as they meet the criteria. So even with repeal those CHP holders should still bypass the check. But for the remainder of those in the minorities and the lower class, OC was their only option, and the PPP actually helped them buy firearms. I would like some numbers from the GRNC on their member base according to race and income.
    Without an NC statute specifically stating that the CHP can be used (such as in 14-402), I just don't see FFL dealers going that route. I suspect that they will will have the customer fill out the 4473 form (which is done now regardless, of course) and then do the NICS check for everyone. I've been wrong before, so it's not out of the realm of possibilities that I'm way of base here.

  16. #16
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmatting View Post
    Without an NC statute specifically stating that the CHP can be used (such as in 14-402), I just don't see FFL dealers going that route. I suspect that they will will have the customer fill out the 4473 form (which is done now regardless, of course) and then do the NICS check for everyone. I've been wrong before, so it's not out of the realm of possibilities that I'm way of base here.
    I have not dug around the Fed laws, but I do know if the feds did not allow it no state law would matter. But it may be contingent upon state laws by the feds. I guess we will have to wait and see, I think we are pretty much stuck with this new law. And it seems to be the trend in other states of discouraging OC while promoting CC. And concealed carry laws do not favor the lower income or minorities. Just more Jim Crow to me, CHP costs and time are discriminatory. And as far as I know GRNC is not doing anything to help those in need.

    PS Any law regarding who can and cannot posses or exercise a 2A right IS gun control. AND gun control always has been racist.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-12-2013 at 10:33 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    A purchase permit does not take the place of a NICS check in this state. It never has. All a county issued purchase permit does is say the Sheriff of the county you reside in does not see any reason that you should not be able to own a pistol from his county records. Walking Wolf instead of spouting what you think you heard or might of read or seen maybe you should start citing everything you preface with "I believe".

    A purchase permit is a county permit a CHP is a state issued permit. Big difference. Here is what you are try to interpret incorrectly.





    Firearm transfers are exempt from the requirement for a NICS check in 3 situations. These include transfers: (1) to buyers having a State permit that has been recognized by ATF as an alternative to a NICS check; (2) of National Firearms Act weapons approved by ATF; and (3) certified by ATF as exempt because compliance with the NICS check requirement is impracticable.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(t), 27 CFR 478.102(d)]
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The PPP allowed a person to buy a gun at a gun show without the insta check long gun or pistol. Though with a pistol the PPP was surrendered.
    (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.


    Please cite this statement for me.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is what allows an individual to buy a long gun or pistol at a gun show from another individual. If you are talking about buying from a dealer at a gun show a NICS check is performed via telephone. I have seen people delayed at gun shows before.


    A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
    Last edited by NC-Heel; 06-12-2013 at 12:43 PM.
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  19. #19
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.


    Please cite this statement for me.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is what allows an individual to buy a long gun or pistol at a gun show from another individual. If you are talking about buying from a dealer at a gun show a NICS check is performed via telephone. I have seen people delayed at gun shows before.


    A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
    http://www.younggunsinc.com/buyagun.htm

    Rifles / Shotguns

    To purchase a long gun (shotgun or rifle) you must be at least 18 years old and have a valid state issued photo identification with your name, address, birth date and signature on it. You may choose to complete a NICS background check through the FBI to buy a long gun. If you have a valid North Carolina Concealed Carry Permit you can use this in the place of the NICS background check. Alternatively you may use a pistol permit to buy a rifle or shotgun.


    The above is from a gun dealers website, but I will dig for the rules, or laws. But I can't believe you have this much ignorance to a common known practice in NC.

    I used this to get back to as quickly as possible, but be sure I will continue to make you look foolish by finding the ruling.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-12-2013 at 12:48 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmatting View Post
    Without an NC statute specifically stating that the CHP can be used (such as in 14-402), I just don't see FFL dealers going that route. I suspect that they will will have the customer fill out the 4473 form (which is done now regardless, of course) and then do the NICS check for everyone. I've been wrong before, so it's not out of the realm of possibilities that I'm way of base here.
    In 14-402 the CHP takes the place of a purchase permit. As far as NICS goes the CHP takes the place of the NICS check. You are confusing state statutes and federal Gun Control Act laws. With purchase permits repealed. Non CHP holders would walk in, fill out form 4473 and buy a firearm after they got a "go" from the FBI NICS. CHP holders would walk in, fill out form 4473, show their CHP and buy the firearm. The only change is for the "minorities and lower class people" as Walking Wolf calls them. They wouldn't have to ride a bus to the Sheriff's office and purchase a permit to buy a firearm. This would save them time and money and make it easier for them to arm themselves. That is why the purchase permit is racist in the first place.
    Last edited by NC-Heel; 06-12-2013 at 12:56 PM.
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  21. #21
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    In 14-402 the CHP takes the place of a purchase permit. As far as NICS goes the CHP takes the place of the NICS check. You are confusing state statutes and federal Gun Control Act laws. With purchase permits repealed. Non CHP holders would walk in, fill out form 4473 and buy a firearm after they got a "go" from the FBI NICS. CHP holders would walk in, fill out form 4473, show their CHP and buy the firearm. The only change is for the "minorities and lower class people" as Walking Wolf calls them. They wouldn't have to ride a bus to the Sheriff's office and purchase a permit to buy a firearm. This would save them time and money and make it easier for them to arm themselves. That is why the purchase permit is racist in the first place.
    I am awaiting a call from NC Justice Academy on this question, I believe it is a rule as opposed to a statute. But with PPP now repealed the only way to buy a firearm without delays is through a CHP pushed by GRNC in attempt to limit firearms to the poor. Gun control is racist, PERIOD! But at least the PPP allowed residents the ability to purchase firearms without delays and hassles. Again how many members of GRNC are minorities? What is the percentage of minorities to whites holding CHPs? Why are there no free classes being offered for minorities at reduced rates, or free? Why are single mothers being denied the access to protect themselves to line the pockets of GRNC and instructors?

    GRNC has gone far beyond PPP in regards to Jim Crow!
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-12-2013 at 01:14 PM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I received my call from Chad Thompson from NC Justice Academy. The use of a PPP for purchase of a firearm is NOT covered in NC statutes, but US Code. As both he and a FFL explained is that the feds have accepted the PPP as a acceptable form of background check for a firearm, both long gun and handgun. As long as there is no NC statute outlawing the PPP for a long gun background check it is acceptable. Unless you can cite that it is illegal, it IS legal.
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    Can you cite any of that other than you made a phone call. Purchase permits are a North Carolina thing. Virgina you do not need a purchase permit. South Carolina you do not need a permit. With a purchase permit you still have to submit to a NICS check. When I buy rifles in S.C. I have to submit to an NICS check and I usually get a 3 day wait. Having a purchase permit does not speed up the transaction now. If N.C. had no purchase permit then they would have the same system as S.C. Buy a pistol or rifle and have a NICS check. Have a CHP and there is no NICS check. Pretty sure Virginia has the same system in place.

    North Carolina General Statute 14-402 lays this out for you.

    14‑402. Sale of certain weapons without permit forbidden.

    (a) It is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation in this State to sell, give away, or transfer, or to purchase or receive, at any place within this State from any other place within or without the State any pistol unless: (i) a license or permit is first obtained under this Article by the purchaser or receiver from the sheriff of the county in which the purchaser or receiver resides; or (ii) a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit is held under Article 54B of this Chapter by the purchaser or receiver who must be a resident of the State at the time of the purchase.


    If this statute is repealed then it would fall back to the Gun Control Act and require a NICS check only for everyone. The BATFE has already stated a state authorized concealed carry card can substitute a background check.
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    And on a side note I just called that gunstore and on the phone the guy told me I could buy a pistol or long gun with a County Sheriff issued purchase permit and no NICS background check. The guy on the phone said if I have been given a purchase permit I am good to go, no more checks. Time to make a call to the ATF.

    I said nothing about CHP and asked him the same question two different ways. Kind of threw me off track when he said pistol too. I was only asking about rifles.
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  25. #25
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    Can you cite any of that other than you made a phone call. Purchase permits are a North Carolina thing. Virgina you do not need a purchase permit. South Carolina you do not need a permit. With a purchase permit you still have to submit to a NICS check. When I buy rifles in S.C. I have to submit to an NICS check and I usually get a 3 day wait. Having a purchase permit does not speed up the transaction now. If N.C. had no purchase permit then they would have the same system as S.C. Buy a pistol or rifle and have a NICS check. Have a CHP and there is no NICS check. Pretty sure Virginia has the same system in place.

    North Carolina General Statute 14-402 lays this out for you.

    14‑402. Sale of certain weapons without permit forbidden.

    (a) It is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation in this State to sell, give away, or transfer, or to purchase or receive, at any place within this State from any other place within or without the State any pistol unless: (i) a license or permit is first obtained under this Article by the purchaser or receiver from the sheriff of the county in which the purchaser or receiver resides; or (ii) a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit is held under Article 54B of this Chapter by the purchaser or receiver who must be a resident of the State at the time of the purchase.


    If this statute is repealed then it would fall back to the Gun Control Act and require a NICS check only for everyone. The BATFE has already stated a state authorized concealed carry card can substitute a background check.
    You know the rules, if it is not illegal it is legal, and Chad Thompson from NCJA confirmed such, throw all the racist GRNC tantrums you like, but if you cannot refute it with a cite, bugger off.

    PS anybody who does not wish to get a elitist GRNC permission card can contact the feds to get a pin number to not deal with the delays. NO CHP needed no expensive class, no expensive fees, and no long arse wait. I will contact BATF for the procedure tomorrow, and post it since I have never done it. Maybe Eye will make a visit because he has some knowledge with this.

    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-12-2013 at 07:27 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    President Donald Trump

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