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Thread: GAME ON! Gun control initiative filed

  1. #1
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    GAME ON! Gun groups FIGHTING BACK!!

    Rights activists fired up over gun control initiative

    A day late, but hardly a dollar short, anti-gunners filed their new big money gun control initiative to the State Legislature this morning, and gun rights activists are already fired up for a fight they realize could be lost.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/righ...rol-initiative

    and now:


    Washington groups launch fight against gun control initiative

    A coalition of some of the state’s firearms community leaders has launched a grassroots campaign to counter the well-financed gun control initiative backed by a Seattle-based gun control group, while also preventing firearms confiscation “by any government agency…without due process.”

    http://www.examiner.com/article/wash...rol-initiative
    Last edited by Dave Workman; 06-19-2013 at 05:46 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting this here Dave. I saw the article on Komrad News, and they gave a different number of required signatures than you had in your article.

    http://www.komonews.com/news/local/N...211038491.html

    Also, can you link to the actual initiative in your article? My apologies if it was in there and I didn't see it. I'd like to compare it to HB 1588 and see how similar it is. If it's basically the same then it's actually a functional ban on all private sales since there were no practical ways to get the BG checks listed in HB 1588.

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    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    T
    Also, can you link to the actual initiative in your article?
    http://sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/...01906AM_82.doc
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Whiskey Tango.

    I think the gun-rights folks should put forth an initiative for all people to register their computers and screen names in a database, pay a $150 registration fee to surf the internet and "contribute" to message boards. All email should be charged a $15 fee to check for illegal content.

    All church goers must register with the government what church they attend and how often.

    I mean, it's the same thing, right?

  5. #5
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    I think we need to start attacking this initiative now, not later. I also think we need to push the concept of "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" and the fact that bloomers in backing this, do we want NYC to run WA state.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    “The thing responsible gun owners often can't grasp is that it is impossible to separate the negligent or homicidal gun owners from the responsible ones. We can't follow everyone home and ensure they aren't leaving their guns in the reach of children and we can't determine who is a hot head and will lose it and shoot someone in the future. Murder is a future action. Same thing with mental illness. The only solution that will work is disarming.”—Robert McAbee, Seattle P-I.com reader
    Really? So what, we can't follow ever liberal home and prove that they are not molesting children.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    GAME ON! Gun control initiative filed

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Really? So what, we can't follow ever liberal home and prove that they are not molesting children.
    That's right, the only solution is to surrender children to the state after birth.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  8. #8
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    That's right, the only solution is to surrender children to the state after birth.
    They would like us to just surrender them, since they believe they already own them.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  9. #9
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    The linked "initiative" was about registration under penalty of a felony charge? Along with an exemplar bullet and casing being kept by the state?

    Does this mean that keeping paint samples and being required to provide a new sample if you repaint your car, is next?

    5th amendment, not requiring you to provide evidence against yourself would seem to cover it.

  10. #10
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    I think rap posted the wrong initiative, because his link brings us up to one that requires registration and the like, the Sec of State's office lists that initiative as "expired"

    THIS

    is the one Hannauer is supposedly sponsoring (through Cheryl Stumbo)

    http://sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/...0352PM_102.doc

    it's 15 pages, but is seems most of it is simply the existing RCW, with additions underlined and parts they don't want crossed out.....
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Rehash of 1588 ?

    Most of this initiative appears to be a second go at HB1588. The legislature could not agree on 1588 and if tasked I belive they would pass on this initiative. This originated in Pederson's district, I expect if / when the initiative goes to the people it would be voted on the same.


    The initiative will also get a "for and against" statement if it goes to the people. The AG is supposed to write the legal language and effect on current law.

    Attached is a marked up version of the document I have been chewing on for a bit, I am hoping to get thoughtful diolgue started and cross posted.

    ~Whitney
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

  12. #12
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    Most of this initiative appears to be a second go at HB1588. The legislature could not agree on 1588 and if tasked I belive they would pass on this initiative. This originated in Pederson's district, I expect if / when the initiative goes to the people it would be voted on the same.


    The initiative will also get a "for and against" statement if it goes to the people. The AG is supposed to write the legal language and effect on current law.

    Attached is a marked up version of the document I have been chewing on for a bit, I am hoping to get thoughtful diolgue started and cross posted.

    ~Whitney
    not exactly, 1588 had some pro-gun attempts at compromise added in, like repeal of the pistol registry and strong language against registration, in addition to exempting cops and those with a CPL....

    this is far Worse then 1588
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Washington press lemmings fall in behind gun control effort

    The first of what will likely be a chain of editorials supporting the gun control initiative filed by the Washington Alliance for Gun Responsibility appeared today in the Vancouver Columbian.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/wash...control-effort

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Do private citizens have the ability to run a NICS check? Can a state statute compel the federal government to grant that access?

    If the answer to both is no, would that mean that the initiative effectively seeks to ban private sales of firearms without actually coming out and saying it?

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Do private citizens have the ability to run a NICS check? Can a state statute compel the federal government to grant that access?

    If the answer to both is no, would that mean that the initiative effectively seeks to ban private sales of firearms without actually coming out and saying it?
    Bingo. During the hearing for HB 1588 licensed dealers testified they could not do the checks for under 20$ and remain profitable, so therefore they would just refuse to do them, and LEO are forbidden from using NICS for private sales between private parties.

    WA needs a massive PR campaign that this initiative is really just a ban in sheep's clothing. Right now the public is very receptive to this line of reasoning given the IRS and NSA scandals.
    Last edited by Alpine; 06-13-2013 at 05:45 PM.

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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    Is there any other form f personal property which CANNOT be sold without using a middleman and paying a fee for the privilege of doing so? Houses come close, but we really are just leasing the property from the state anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    Is there any other form f personal property which CANNOT be sold without using a middleman and paying a fee for the privilege of doing so? Houses come close, but we really are just leasing the property from the state anyway.
    automobiles probably come close. post-transaction duties apply.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    Is there any other form f personal property which CANNOT be sold without using a middleman and paying a fee for the privilege of doing so? Houses come close, but we really are just leasing the property from the state anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    automobiles probably come close. post-transaction duties apply.
    Pretty much everything that's bought and sold is technically subjected to either a Sales Tax or a Use Tax if there was no Sales Tax collected at the time of sale.

    If a businessman goes to California and buys a large piece of machinery he's supposed to declare the Use Tax on his monthly tax filing with the State.

    So far, only items that have a "Title" maintained by the State have these taxes forcibly collected from just ordinary citizens. Since Businesses are subject to audit by the DOR, most comply pretty well and pay up.

    There'll come a day when the "Tax Man" will figure out a way to collect Sales Taxes on everything sold by anybody.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    The biggest irony here is the whole purpose of the Second Amendment is to promote the possession of firearms and use them against those who would attempt to legislate the destruction of our rights.

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    (4) Exceptions. Section 3 of this act does not apply to:
    (c) A temporary transfer of possession of a firearm if such transfer is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to the person to whom the firearm is transferred if
    (i) The temporary transfer only lasts as long as immediately necessary to prevent such imminent death or great bodily harm;


    Aside from "imminent" by law meaning right then, not tomorrow, not later today, right now, this would mean you can't even let someone borrow a gun, which would pose some problems under both WA and US Constitutions.

    (f) The temporary transfer of a firearm (i) between spouses or domestic partners; (ii) if the temporary transfer occurs, and the firearm is kept at all times, at an established shooting range authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction in which such range is located; (iii) if the temporary transfer occurs and the transferee’s possession of the firearm is exclusively at a lawful organized competition involving the use of a firearm, or while participating in or practicing for a performance by an organized group that uses firearms as a part of the performance


    Ok, so you can let your buddy use your gun at a range, but by the way they use the term "transfer," no one is even allowed to touch the gun.


    I think that could be a good bullet point for the ad campaign. We can go to prison for touching a gun and criminals will decide to obey the law.

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    Fight back!



    Washington groups launch fight against gun control initiative


    A coalition of some of the state’s firearms community leaders has launched a grassroots campaign to counter the well-financed gun control initiative backed by a Seattle-based gun control group, while also preventing firearms confiscation “by any government agency…without due process.”

    http://www.examiner.com/article/wash...rol-initiative

    Find out more at this weekend's WAC gun show in Puyallup.

  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    The fight is on!

    The newest marijuana initiative is using a very cool method of gathering signatures. Instead of at most a few dozen activists seeking signatures, they created a form a person can take and collect their family and friend's signatures themselves and mail it in, creating in effect 100's if not thousands of activists all doing a small part. And maybe catching the attention of those who wouldn't be so inclined to participate otherwise.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The fight is on!

    The newest marijuana initiative is using a very cool method of gathering signatures. Instead of at most a few dozen activists seeking signatures, they created a form a person can take and collect their family and friend's signatures themselves and mail it in, creating in effect 100's if not thousands of activists all doing a small part. And maybe catching the attention of those who wouldn't be so inclined to participate otherwise.
    you mean the marijuana initiative people were transcribing signatures from non-official petition forms onto official ones? that is the impression this gave me, I'm just wondering if you can explain the system a slightly different way because I'm struggling to understand...
    I would like that clarified just a little bit if possible..
    (i'm not being sarcastic in the least btw)
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 06-20-2013 at 12:14 AM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    you mean the marijuana initiative people were transcribing signatures from non-official petition forms onto official ones? that is the impression this gave me, I'm just wondering if you can explain the system a slightly different way because I'm struggling to understand...

    (i'm not being sarcastic in the least btw)
    Cite your sources for your allegations that people were transcribing signatures, please.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

  25. #25
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hayes View Post
    Cite your sources for your allegations that people were transcribing signatures, please.
    Didn't allege anything, re-read the post
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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