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GAME ON! Gun control initiative filed

Dave Workman

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May 23, 2007
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GAME ON! Gun groups FIGHTING BACK!!

Rights activists fired up over gun control initiative

A day late, but hardly a dollar short, anti-gunners filed their new big money gun control initiative to the State Legislature this morning, and gun rights activists are already fired up for a fight they realize could be lost.

http://www.examiner.com/article/rights-activists-fired-up-over-gun-control-initiative

and now:


Washington groups launch fight against gun control initiative

A coalition of some of the state’s firearms community leaders has launched a grassroots campaign to counter the well-financed gun control initiative backed by a Seattle-based gun control group, while also preventing firearms confiscation “by any government agency…without due process.”

http://www.examiner.com/article/washington-groups-launch-fight-against-gun-control-initiative
 
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Alpine

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Aug 10, 2012
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Idaho
Thanks for posting this here Dave. I saw the article on Komrad News, and they gave a different number of required signatures than you had in your article.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/...lls-for-more-background-checks-211038491.html

Also, can you link to the actual initiative in your article? My apologies if it was in there and I didn't see it. I'd like to compare it to HB 1588 and see how similar it is. If it's basically the same then it's actually a functional ban on all private sales since there were no practical ways to get the BG checks listed in HB 1588.
 

mikeyb

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Whiskey Tango.

I think the gun-rights folks should put forth an initiative for all people to register their computers and screen names in a database, pay a $150 registration fee to surf the internet and "contribute" to message boards. All email should be charged a $15 fee to check for illegal content.

All church goers must register with the government what church they attend and how often.

I mean, it's the same thing, right?
 

hermannr

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Mar 24, 2011
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Okanogan Highland
I think we need to start attacking this initiative now, not later. I also think we need to push the concept of "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" and the fact that bloomers in backing this, do we want NYC to run WA state.
 

Freedom1Man

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Jan 14, 2012
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Greater Eastside Washington
“The thing responsible gun owners often can't grasp is that it is impossible to separate the negligent or homicidal gun owners from the responsible ones. We can't follow everyone home and ensure they aren't leaving their guns in the reach of children and we can't determine who is a hot head and will lose it and shoot someone in the future. Murder is a future action. Same thing with mental illness. The only solution that will work is disarming.”—Robert McAbee, Seattle P-I.com reader

Really? So what, we can't follow ever liberal home and prove that they are not molesting children.
 

Vitaeus

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May 30, 2010
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Bremerton, Washington
The linked "initiative" was about registration under penalty of a felony charge? Along with an exemplar bullet and casing being kept by the state?

Does this mean that keeping paint samples and being required to provide a new sample if you repaint your car, is next?

5th amendment, not requiring you to provide evidence against yourself would seem to cover it.
 

EMNofSeattle

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I think rap posted the wrong initiative, because his link brings us up to one that requires registration and the like, the Sec of State's office lists that initiative as "expired"

THIS

is the one Hannauer is supposedly sponsoring (through Cheryl Stumbo)

http://sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/initiatives/611201320352PM_102.doc

it's 15 pages, but is seems most of it is simply the existing RCW, with additions underlined and parts they don't want crossed out.....
 

Whitney

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Jan 12, 2010
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Poulsbo, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
Rehash of 1588 ?

Most of this initiative appears to be a second go at HB1588. The legislature could not agree on 1588 and if tasked I belive they would pass on this initiative. This originated in Pederson's district, I expect if / when the initiative goes to the people it would be voted on the same.


The initiative will also get a "for and against" statement if it goes to the people. The AG is supposed to write the legal language and effect on current law.

Attached is a marked up version of the document I have been chewing on for a bit, I am hoping to get thoughtful diolgue started and cross posted.

~Whitney
 

EMNofSeattle

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Most of this initiative appears to be a second go at HB1588. The legislature could not agree on 1588 and if tasked I belive they would pass on this initiative. This originated in Pederson's district, I expect if / when the initiative goes to the people it would be voted on the same.


The initiative will also get a "for and against" statement if it goes to the people. The AG is supposed to write the legal language and effect on current law.

Attached is a marked up version of the document I have been chewing on for a bit, I am hoping to get thoughtful diolgue started and cross posted.

~Whitney

not exactly, 1588 had some pro-gun attempts at compromise added in, like repeal of the pistol registry and strong language against registration, in addition to exempting cops and those with a CPL....

this is far Worse then 1588
 

Difdi

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Mar 2, 2010
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Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
Do private citizens have the ability to run a NICS check? Can a state statute compel the federal government to grant that access?

If the answer to both is no, would that mean that the initiative effectively seeks to ban private sales of firearms without actually coming out and saying it?
 

Alpine

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Aug 10, 2012
Messages
671
Location
Idaho
Do private citizens have the ability to run a NICS check? Can a state statute compel the federal government to grant that access?

If the answer to both is no, would that mean that the initiative effectively seeks to ban private sales of firearms without actually coming out and saying it?

Bingo. During the hearing for HB 1588 licensed dealers testified they could not do the checks for under 20$ and remain profitable, so therefore they would just refuse to do them, and LEO are forbidden from using NICS for private sales between private parties.

WA needs a massive PR campaign that this initiative is really just a ban in sheep's clothing. Right now the public is very receptive to this line of reasoning given the IRS and NSA scandals.
 
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Vitaeus

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May 30, 2010
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Location
Bremerton, Washington
Is there any other form f personal property which CANNOT be sold without using a middleman and paying a fee for the privilege of doing so? Houses come close, but we really are just leasing the property from the state anyway.
 

mikeyb

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Feb 19, 2013
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Bothell
Is there any other form f personal property which CANNOT be sold without using a middleman and paying a fee for the privilege of doing so? Houses come close, but we really are just leasing the property from the state anyway.

automobiles probably come close. post-transaction duties apply.
 

amlevin

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Feb 16, 2007
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North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Is there any other form f personal property which CANNOT be sold without using a middleman and paying a fee for the privilege of doing so? Houses come close, but we really are just leasing the property from the state anyway.

automobiles probably come close. post-transaction duties apply.

Pretty much everything that's bought and sold is technically subjected to either a Sales Tax or a Use Tax if there was no Sales Tax collected at the time of sale.

If a businessman goes to California and buys a large piece of machinery he's supposed to declare the Use Tax on his monthly tax filing with the State.

So far, only items that have a "Title" maintained by the State have these taxes forcibly collected from just ordinary citizens. Since Businesses are subject to audit by the DOR, most comply pretty well and pay up.

There'll come a day when the "Tax Man" will figure out a way to collect Sales Taxes on everything sold by anybody.
 

Amicus

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May 3, 2013
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WA State
The biggest irony here is the whole purpose of the Second Amendment is to promote the possession of firearms and use them against those who would attempt to legislate the destruction of our rights.
 

509rifas

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Mar 7, 2013
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Yakima County
(4) Exceptions. Section 3 of this act does not apply to:
(c) A temporary transfer of possession of a firearm if such transfer is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to the person to whom the firearm is transferred if
(i) The temporary transfer only lasts as long as immediately necessary to prevent such imminent death or great bodily harm;


Aside from "imminent" by law meaning right then, not tomorrow, not later today, right now, this would mean you can't even let someone borrow a gun, which would pose some problems under both WA and US Constitutions.

(f) The temporary transfer of a firearm (i) between spouses or domestic partners; (ii) if the temporary transfer occurs, and the firearm is kept at all times, at an established shooting range authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction in which such range is located; (iii) if the temporary transfer occurs and the transferee’s possession of the firearm is exclusively at a lawful organized competition involving the use of a firearm, or while participating in or practicing for a performance by an organized group that uses firearms as a part of the performance


Ok, so you can let your buddy use your gun at a range, but by the way they use the term "transfer," no one is even allowed to touch the gun.


I think that could be a good bullet point for the ad campaign. We can go to prison for touching a gun and criminals will decide to obey the law.
 
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