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Thread: Permit was DENIED

  1. #1
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    Permit was DENIED

    And it only took 16 weeks!

    A few of you told me to appeal sooner for the delay, and obviously I regret not doing it, so no need to rub that in my face.

    Anyways, I was denied for not listing an arrest and charge which was erased as being a youthful offender. The arrest unfortunately involved a facsimile of a firearm, a lady's kids saw my passenger playing with an airsoft gun while I was driivng, and I was charged with breach of peace and carrying weapon in a motor vehicle. It says right on the application that I'm not required to state the arrest and can legally say under oath that I have never been arrested. The letter wrote, "My decision to deny is based on the criminal history activity portion of the application being inaccurate."

    The application states: You are not required to disclose the existence of any arrest, criminal charge or conviction, the records of which have been erased pursuant to C.G.S. 46b-146, 54-76o, or 54-142a. If your criminal records have been erased pursuant to one of these statutes, you may swear under oath that you have never been arrested. Criminal records that may be erased are records pertaining to a finding of delinquency or that a child was a member of a family with service needs (C.G.S. 46b-146), an adjudication as a youthful offender (C.G.S. 54-76o), a criminal charge that has been dismissed or nolled, a criminal charge for which the person has been found not guilty, or a conviction for which the person received an absolute pardon (C.G.S. 54-142a).


    Will this cop win against the board?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Resubmit the application with the arrest disclosed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Resubmit the application with the arrest disclosed.
    I can re-apply immediately? Why not appeal as the letter states?

    Thanks

  4. #4
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Permit was DENIED

    Quote Originally Posted by forhumans View Post
    I can re-apply immediately? Why not appeal as the letter states?
    Your choice, I just give advice, can't make you take it. Not sure why you are hot to appeal /now/, but the BFPE most likely will tell you to reapply.


    Reapplying and appealing are not mutually exclusive.
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    I wasn't sure if there was a time period I had to wait before re-applying. I suppose if it takes 4 months again to get the permit back it will be quicker than getting an appeal date in 2014.

    I appreciate the advice.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Permit was DENIED

    There is something in the new bill about waiting 12 months. Unsure of the effective date though. As I said, not mutually exclusive.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    There is something in the new bill about waiting 12 months. Unsure of the effective date though. As I said, not mutually exclusive.
    Found it.

    Sec. 57. Subsections (b) to (f), inclusive, of section 29-28 of the general statutes are repealed and the following is substituted in lieu thereof (Effective October 1, 2013):

    No person may apply for a temporary state permit to carry a pistol or revolver more than once within any twelve-month period, and no temporary state permit to carry a pistol or revolver shall be issued to any person who has applied for such permit more than once within the preceding twelve months.
    Looks like I have time to get in.

  8. #8
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    File and apply now

    Nothing prevents you from filing an appeal immediately on the first denial and submitting a new revised application during the wait for the appeal.

    Do it now and keep track of the dates and copies of all records.

    What town or city?
    Last edited by Edward Peruta; 06-11-2013 at 10:29 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member brk913's Avatar
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    Before filing an appeal and/or resubmitting I suggest a call to the Chief to query as to if it was the YO case he was referring to, if it was you may be able to persuade him into reconsidering as you are not required to report this (and in fact can swear under oath you have never been arrested) and reporting a YO is excluded specifically on the application. Something tells me you may have something else on your record that is not "sealed" that you may have neglected to report as your local PD should not be able to see any YO information. If it is in fact the YO and he will not reconsider, inform him you will be filing an appeal and follow through and do it, hearing dates are not that long out, and I bet yours would be in October or November.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brk913 View Post
    Something tells me you may have something else on your record that is not "sealed" that you may have neglected to report as your local PD should not be able to see any YO information.
    I applied for my criminal history from the PD, so I should know shortly. Would my YO even be on that report?

  11. #11
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forhumans View Post
    I applied for my criminal history from the PD, so I should know shortly. Would my YO even be on that report?
    You can do your own search: http://ctcarry.com/ConvictionHistory/StateSearch
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  12. #12
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    Sadly, you do not live in the US of A, but in CT, where leaders have pizzed on the constitution and rights guaranteed by the US Constitution.

  13. #13
    Regular Member brk913's Avatar
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    Your YO should not show up on any background check (it would show if you went for a high level security type job like FBI as there is a record of it held by the Judicial Branch) but you could also run a quick search here for any convictions in CT within the last 9 years: http://www.jud2.ct.gov/crdockets/SearchByDefDisp.aspx
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  14. #14
    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    I had this exact same thing happen to me as I had kept the arrest history blank, and come to find out I was actually considered arrested for a minor incident I had 13 years ago. I honestly didn't even know I was arrested lol due to funky surrounding circumstances from how it went about. a phone call to my PD resulted in the detective informing me of the arrest data (date and description of charges).
    I ended up deciding to just reapply, and when I submitted the application a mere couple days after receiving the denial letter, I used the info the detective gave me, and during my "interview" that detective was kind enough to give me the exact charges' description and the exact dollar amounts I paid in fines for them which I added to the application. 8 weeks and 2 days later I had my permit. I was upset that I ended up paying the fees again, but it worked out well for me.

    I would definitely be sure to get the arrest record from the PD of why they denied you before deciding what to do. I only reapplied because it was before all this crap happened and I knew it would be quicker than an appeal. but now, you may find it easier and quicker to appeal instead of reapplying.
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  15. #15
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    APPLICANTS ARE NOT ATTORNEYS OR MEMBERS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND CANNOT BE EXPECTED TO KNOW THE LAW.

    To protect yourself from allegations that you falsely signed the application reply to answers in the application with exhibits.

    This is my recommendation to avoid a denial on the ARREST and CONVICTION questions.


    Execute and sign an Exhibit A and Exhibit B and attach them to the application.

    Countless members of Law Enforcement when being questioned under oath on the stand in court answer by stating:

    "I DON'T RECALL"

    Simply state on the DPS-799 application "See Exhibit A" in the arrest questions and "See Exhibit B" in the Conviction section.



    EXHIBIT A
    TO
    Application for Temporary State Pistol, DPS-799-C (Revised 10/09)

    SECTION E CRIMINAL HISTORY:

    QUESTION:

    Have you ever been ARRESTED for any crime, in any jurisdiction?

    ANSWER:

    To the best of my knowledge, belief and memory, I have never been arrested for a violation of the law that would require me to answer this question in the affirmative.

    To prevent creating a new public record regarding arrests that were disposed of or dropped by members of law enforcement, prosecutors or the courts prior to any finding of guilt are NOT listed.

    _______________________________________
    Applicants Signature Date

    Or

    To the best of my knowledge, belief and memory, I have been arrested and believe I must reveal the following information regarding previous arrests.

    __________________________________________________ ______________________________________­__

    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________

    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________

    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________

    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________

    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________

    __________________________________________________ ______________________________________­__

    Disclaimer:

    Any information supplied or withheld to answer this question is done under the belief that I am required or allowed to do so under current provisions of Connecticut State Statutes, Regulations and case law.
    If during the investigation of my application additional information or explaination be required, I am prepared to do so at any reasonable time.



    _______________________________________
    Applicants Signature Date



    EXHIBIT B
    TO
    Application for Temporary State Pistol, DPS-799-C (Revised 10/09)
    SECTION E CRIMINAL HISTORY:

    QUESTION:

    Have you ever been CONVICTED under the laws of this state, federal law or the laws of another jurisdiction?

    If "YES,” list all convictions, include charges, location, date of arrest, and disposition.

    ANSWER:

    To the best of my knowledge, belief and memory, I have never been CONVICTED for a violation of the law that would require me to answer this question in the affirmative.

    To prevent creating a new public record, CONVICTIONS that were disposed of by the courts, the board of pardons, or executive order are NOT listed.

    _______________________________________
    Applicants Signature Date

    Or

    To the best of my knowledge, belief and memory, I have been CONVICTED and believe I must reveal the following information regarding previous CONVICTIONS.

    __________________________________________________ ______________________________________­__

    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________

    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________

    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________

    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________

    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________

    __________________________________________________ ______________________________________­__

    Disclaimer:

    Any information supplied or withheld to answer this question is done under the belief that I am required or allowed to do so under current provisions of Connecticut State Statutes, Regulations and case law.
    I will rely upon the results of any State or Federal Criminal History Record check and acknowledge or deny any information not supplied in this exhibit if asked



    _______________________________________
    Applicants Signature Date

  16. #16
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    There wasn't enough room on the APP to list all the times I was arrested

    I had to submit exhibits because there was not enough room to list my arrests.

    There was plenty of room to list convictions.

    I got my Temporary State Permit in less than a week because the Chief knew me and my background.

    And there were NO fingerprints taken!!

  17. #17
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    Verbage submitted with California CCW application

    This is the actual text of what I submitted on my California CCW application.

    Read it, copy it, edit and use if if you'd like.

    Too many arrests to count or remember

    The undersigned, as a Spot News Photographer was frequently and illegally placed under arrest on numerous occasions, detained at scenes and placed in police vehicles by numerous police officers in numerous Connecticut jurisdictions, and then released from custody without being processed by the arresting officers or department.

    Unknown incidents

    I have led a very pro-active life, and have never been one to back down while defending my rights or the rights of others, in doing so, there may be incidents I cannot now remember. Should you find something you need clarified, don’t hesitate to ask me questions or demand answers as part of this application for a permit to carry a pistol in Connecticut. I’ll be very happy to provide any information I can to whoever asks.

    I ALSO CONSIDER ANY ARRESTS OR SITUATIONS THAT RESULTED IN DISMISSAL OF THE CHARGES TO HAVE NEVER TAKEN PLACE.

  18. #18
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    Its nice Ed shared what he put down ... but to say "you don't remember" may not be a suitable answer for the OP.

    I simply objected to the query due to relevancy issues ....

    the law says that the application should be done on the dps form .. it does not say you need to complete everything that they ask for ...

    cases are available noting that not every query asked on a gov't form must be answered; only relevant questions.

    Motor vehicle and arrests are not relevant if they have nothing to detract from your right to own guns IMO.

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    Update

    I waited a week and called the station to check on my criminal history report, which was supposed to take a couple of days. The officer said he hadn't heard of it, but would check and have someone call me. I got a call from the Sgt and he said they knew the reason why I wanted my criminal history report, and then he admitted they forgot to remove my youthful arrest from their system... they had forgotten. Oops.

    He let me re-submit my app to the chief, and I got my temp in the mail today.

    I did include a letter when I brought back the checks explaining the arrest and why I didn't put it on the form, but it felt like I was incriminating myself, so I'm not sure what to recommend for future applicants with expunged arrests.


    It's been 5 months so I forget my next step... go to the state office and get my photo?

  20. #20
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forhumans View Post
    It's been 5 months so I forget my next step... go to the state office and get my photo?
    The instructions are on the permit application.

    http://www.ct.gov/despp/lib/despp/sl.../dps-799-c.pdf

    3. Within the 60 day period, go to a DESPP, Division of State Police, pistol permit location and submit the following:
    - The Temporary State Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers (DPS-11-C) issued by the local authority;
    - A completed Application for State Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers (DPS-46-C);
    - $70.00 payable to Treasurer, State of Connecticut; and
    - Proof you are legally and lawfully in the United States (e.g., certified copy of birth certificate, U.S. passport or documentation issued by I.C.E.).
    • Your photograph will be taken at DESPP.
    The very next step after getting the permit from the state should be to seek training from a competent trainer.

    I personally would recommend:

    king33training.com

    and/or:

    https://www.facebook.com/SecureAlternatives
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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    Thank you! Looks like Defense Alternatives was just at my LGS a few weeks ago.

    The DESPP process is a same-day thing right?

  22. #22
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forhumans View Post
    The DESPP process is a same-day thing right?
    You walk in with your stuff, and provided you pay attention to the directions, you walk out with your permit.
    Connecticut Carry is dedicated to advancing and protecting the fundamental civil rights of the men and women of Connecticut to keep and bear arms for self defense of themselves and the state as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Constitution of Connecticut.

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  23. #23
    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    also know that they often do not accept your reason for wanting your permit being "for all lawful purposes", you usually need to include some type of specifics. I put "for all lawful purposes; self defense, defense of others, target shooting, hunting, collections, to legally buy handguns", which pretty much covers everything.
    Last edited by motoxmann; 07-05-2013 at 06:52 PM.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member brk913's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    also know that they often do not accept your reason for wanting your permit being "for all lawful purposes", you usually need to include some type of specifics. I put "for all lawful purposes; self defense, defense of others, target shooting, hunting, collections, to legally buy handguns", which pretty much covers everything.
    That's not true anymore, they absolutely will accept "All Lawful Purposes" or any other reason you put down, I personally took care of that by requesting a Declaratory Ruling from the Board last year, although they refused to issue a ruling they did inform the SLFU that they must accept any answer you write down, there is supposedly a memo from the Board's Attorney in the area where you get your photo taken that faces the clerk stating just that. I had one student several months ago write to me that the initial person started to give them a hard time but when a supervisor was called over (Det. Matson, she's in charge of the SLFU) she told the clerk to accept it. You should be as generic as possible in that field, "All Lawful Purposes" or "It's my 2nd Amendment Right" are the two best answers, both non committal as to what you will be using your permit for and covers all legal activities. See this thread about it: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1829639 I can confirm from feedback I am receiving from my students that they will accept any answer you wish to write down.
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  25. #25
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    Control of genital warts is # 1 reason now? lol

    Its a meaningless query of course. As 99% of their queries are.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-06-2013 at 02:46 PM.

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