How do you legally carry a MAC-10 or extended barrel pistol?

I was asked a question by a friend yesterday that made me ponder a bit.

He just got his CPL and wondered if he could legally OC or CC his MAC-10 with a shoulder sling strap instead of a holster. At first I just laughed and gave him a laundry list on why that would be a VERY bad idea.

1. It's an open breach designed gun with a fixed firing pin, which IMHO makes it insane to carry in public.

He asked if an open breach gun was illegal to carry. I said "No" but it is unsafe as hell.

2. Carrying a gun like that in public would ensure a prompt visit by the local PD and alot of unwanted attention.

3. Probably one of the worst guns I can think of for self-protection, especially in a crowded area.

4. It's registered as a pistol and therefore to the best of my knowledge a holster would be required to carry it legally OC or CC.

His response was, if I put the 18" barrel extender and/or a folding stock on it and a 32 round extended magazine could I use a shoulder strap then instead of the holster, because it's now of rifle length?

I own a MAC as well and the thought of carrying it or for self defense out in public has never even crossed my mind but he did raise a valid question that I don't know the answer to.

Thoughts on this? A pistol is a pistol correct? Is there any scenerio where you can carry a pistol or a michigan pistol with a sling strap instead of a holster or does the fact it is registered as a pistol require it be in a holster period no matter how long the overall length is.

If you do use a sling, must it be OC or would your CPL cover a pistol with enough stuff attached to it to increase the overall length to rifle size? Granted a trench coat would probably be required to fully conceal it.

NOTE: In the end I did convince him not to use his MAC for anything other then target practice and WWIII.

Is there a law that requires a person to carry a gun in a holster? I do not recall seeing one.

wizzi01 said:

Is there a law that requires a person to carry a gun in a holster? I do not recall seeing one.

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Nope. However, most of the Atty General opinions and other legal citations generally refer to Open Carry in a holster. The concern may be that one may inadvertently considered to have "brandished" a pistol if carried without one. As long as one is careful, I don't think it is a huge problem.

My gosh Todd, is there anything you don't know ? I'm not worthy. :monkey

??

Admiring your knowledge.

Consider the statement that OCDO is about promoting and defending the right to open carry holstered handguns as we go about out normal everyday lives.

Just as long gun carry is not promoted here (excepting certain strict exceptions) so too are AK and AR type pistols not promoted/encouraged. These may or may not be legal in a given state - still the problems with muzzle control and trigger coverage exist when carrying on a sling and it doesn't fit the public relations image desired.

We've been down the road in the past discussing the carry of such pistols with Kwik leading the parade - don't think we are going there again.

Grapeshot said:

Consider the statement that OCDO is about promoting and defending the right to open carry holstered handguns as we go about out normal everyday lives.

Just as long gun carry is not promoted here (excepting certain strict exceptions) so too are AK and AR type pistols not promoted/encouraged. These may or may not be legal in a given state - still the problems with muzzle control and trigger coverage exist when carrying on a sling and it doesn't fit the public relations image desired.

We've been down the road in the past discussing the carry of such pistols with Kwik leading the parade - don't think we are going there again.

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No disrespect intended, didn't mean to beat an apparent dead horse. I did do a search but couldn't really find a concise answer. My apologies if it ruffled some feathers.

I do agree wholeheartedly a MAC or UZI is the wrong firearm of choice to carry in just about any situation. I was merely trying to gain knowledge and looking for opinions on the legality of carrying such a pistol that is either too large or has no formed holster available. If carrying with a sling would constitute brandishing and/or be illegal due to lack of a holster.

Hevymetal said:

No disrespect intended, didn't mean to beat an apparent dead horse. I did do a search but couldn't really find a concise answer. My apologies if it ruffled some feathers.

I do agree wholeheartedly a MAC or UZI is the wrong firearm of choice to carry in just about any situation. I was merely trying to gain knowledge and looking for opinions on the legality of carrying such a pistol that is either too large or has no formed holster available. If carrying with a sling would constitute brandishing and/or be illegal due to lack of a holster.

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No feathers ruffled at all.

Also could find no law(s) stating that sling OC of such a pistol was illegal or that a holster was required, but I think one doing so would immediately raise the awareness (negatively) of those in the area.

Consider other things that are not illegal and how you might think: 3 strange men dressed in black BDU knock on your front door, all with evil black pistols slung on the chests - will you have any concerns?

It is a matter of perception. It is unlikely that they are there to sell Girl Scout cookies.

my emotional response to that scenario would be no different than 3 men in blue with shiny tin on their chests and holstered pistols on their belts

Debate Settled

Tell him to get a tactical shoulder rig like this



As you see, carries your MAC-10 securely holstered no need to worry about muzzle direction.

Grapeshot said:

No feathers ruffled at all.

Also could find no law(s) stating that sling OC of such a pistol was illegal or that a holster was required, but I think one doing so would immediately raise the awareness (negatively) of those in the area.

Consider other things that are not illegal and how you might think: 3 strange men dressed in black BDU knock on your front door, all with evil black pistols slung on the chests - will you have any concerns?

It is a matter of perception. It is unlikely that they are there to sell Girl Scout cookies.

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Couldn't the same be said about open carry. Saying this, I stress that I have no problem with the forum's focus on handguns carried openly in a holster and understand that decision is probably prudent.

DrTodd said:

Couldn't the same be said about open carry.....

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Very good point. We must be very cautious in my honest opinion on telling people how they should exercise their rights. 1A, 2A etc...if you're a poor person in the ghetto & your choices are go unarmed or carry the one 22lr you can afford to own, who am I to say you shouldn't? ???

EMNofSeattle said:

Tell him to get a tactical shoulder rig like this

As you see, carries your MAC-10 securely holstered no need to worry about muzzle direction.

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No thank you - no desire to add a cleft to my chin when extending my left arm. Also no trigger protection.

FreeInAZ said:

Very good point. We must be very cautious in my honest opinion on telling people how they should exercise their rights. 1A, 2A etc...if you're a poor person in the ghetto & your choices are go unarmed or carry the one 22lr you can afford to own, who am I to say you shouldn't? ???

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We are not telling people how they should excercise their rights - absolutely not.

What we are saying is that OCDO is not promoting this type of pistol nor this method of carry. There is a major difference between the two thoughts.

EMNofSeattle said:

Tell him to get a tactical shoulder rig like this

As you see, carries your MAC-10 securely holstered no need to worry about muzzle direction.

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The MAC shown in the picture has the breach closed meaning it would require racking (a complete PITA, the little knob on the top racks it) to place it into a firing position. As shown it is unloaded and useless in a "Tactical" situation

Grapeshot said:

No thank you - no desire to add a cleft to my chin when extending my left arm. Also no trigger protection.

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See above. If the weapon above was racked and live, I agree it is the most idiotic design for a gun rig I have seen. Trigger protection and muzzle direction on a weapon like that is paramount. Tripping or even sneezing could set it off and if it did AD I sure the heck don't want it pointed anywhere near my head.

FreeInAZ said:

Very good point. We must be very cautious in my honest opinion on telling people how they should exercise their rights. 1A, 2A etc...if you're a poor person in the ghetto & your choices are go unarmed or carry the one 22lr you can afford to own, who am I to say you shouldn't? ???

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I'm all for anyone carrying anything they want SAFELY. I just don't see an effective SAFE way to carry such a firearm in public on a daily basis IMHO.

Thanks for your post grapeshot. It gives clarity to the conversation. I agree that safety is very important in all aspects of firearm carry. +1

Hevymetal said:

The MAC shown in the picture has the breach closed meaning it would require racking (a complete PITA, the little knob on the top racks it) to place it into a firing position.

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I am not a MAC expert, but I definitely know they come in open and closed bolt configurations.

Michigander said:

I am not a MAC expert, but I definitely know they come in open and closed bolt configurations.

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okay that's true, but I am only familiar with the old pre import ban open varities

Honestly i don't kno thats a great question. IMO i wouldn't carry that as a edc (Everyday carry) but thats his right and his choice and i won't condem him of his choice. I'm happy he is even arming himself and exerciseing his rights.


This rig could work IF there was something protecting the trigger thats my main concern anyone could reach behind him and squeeze that trigger. It could even get caught on something. The only way this would be safe is if it was unloaded. But if he is truely wanting to carry this as a edc theres many things he needs to think about. Trigger pertection, muzzle control and if he got in a situation where he needed to use it what would be the fastes way to use it and how could he use it? Its prob best to keep it unloaded but he better be fast enough to get it ready .

Hevymetal said:

okay that's true, but I am only familiar with the old pre import ban open varities

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Again, not an expert on how they work, but I do know a bit about their history, and I am not familiar with any imported versions. There was a copy that was made in South Africa after the arms embargo was enacted (along with a lot of other really cool designs, thank you Jimmy Carter, but no, apartheid wasn't cool) but other than that, I believe all were made in the US. I may be mistaken, but I believe Gordon Ingram didn't get around to making the M10 and 11 until the 70's, after the 68 gun control act banned the import of machine guns unless you were a licensed dealer or government agency. Thus, they were all made in the US as far as I know, and they were made by at least 2 or 3 companies before Reagan banned machine guns completely.

Before that, Gordan Ingram did make a few other models, including the Thompson look alike M6 which was exported by the thousands to south america, and many prototypes which he destroyed so he didn't have to pay the tax to register them. (For all his work, he died poor and is as far as I know still in an unmarked grave. )

The open bolt semi autos I believe were banned by ATF order due to the ease of modifying the sear for full auto function, and not related to any import laws, but the ones from before that are as usual legal to buy and own. Last time I saw one, it was going for well over a grand.

One other note, if I remember right, the original configuration stocks don't fit on closed bolt models, so you are probably right in regards to that picture being of an open bolt model.