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Thread: Hunters safety... Does it still count as applicable training to get your CCL?

  1. #1
    Regular Member vinchenzo's Avatar
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    Hunters safety... Does it still count as applicable training to get your CCL?

    I had a friend ask me the other day about getting his CCL, and he said that while he planned to take a CCW course, that he was just going to use his hunter safety card to apply for his permit.

    From what I read of the new "permanent" rules, that's still applicable. However, the recent posting about the lawsuit that's been filed has me confused. In the posting regarding the lawsuit, it says this:

    (this text is now required on certificates for training)

    ---This course includes, at a minimum, instruction on and practices the studentís comprehension of: 1) Firearm safety rules; 2) Safe firearm and ammunition use, handling, transport, and storage; 3) Legally permissible possession, transportation, and use of firearms, including use of deadly force; and 4) Techniques for avoiding and controlling violent confrontations.---
    Act 35 says this:
    (4) TRAINING REQUIREMENTS. (a) The proof of training requirement under sub. (7) (e) may be met by any of
    the following:
    1. A copy of a document, or an affidavit from an
    instructor or organization that conducted the course or
    program, that indicates the individual completed any of
    the following:
    a. The hunter education program established under s.
    29.591 or a substantially similar program that is established by another state, country, or province and that is
    recognized by the department of natural resources

    ETC ETC
    And then the permanent rules found here say: http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/...oncealed-carry

    17.05(2)(a)
    Adds language requirements to the training certificate or affidavit to indicate the training required in 17.03(7) was provided.
    Soooo.... Maybe this is a simple question and I'm just too slow to understand it. But does Hunters Safety still count as meeting the training requirement for your CCL?

    (I wish WI would have just adopted Constitutional Carry.... Would have made things so much simpler.)

  2. #2
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinchenzo View Post
    Soooo.... Maybe this is a simple question and I'm just too slow to understand it. But does Hunters Safety still count as meeting the training requirement for your CCL?
    YES!! The simple answer is that a Hunter Safety certificate is acceptable proof of training. The "why" is found in the Statute which the WI DOJ must follow.

    175.60  License to carry a concealed weapon.
    (4) Training requirements.
    (a) The proof of training requirement under sub. (7) (e) may be met by any of the following:
    1. A copy of a document, or an affidavit from an instructor or organization that conducted the course or program, that indicates the individual completed any of the following:
    a. The hunter education program established under s. 29.591 or a substantially similar program that is established by another state, country, or province and that is recognized by the department of natural resources.

    b. A firearms safety or training course that is conducted by a national or state organization that certifies firearms instructors.
    c. A firearms safety or training course that is available to the public and is offered by a law enforcement agency or, if the course is taught by an instructor who is certified by a national or state organization that certifies firearms instructors or by the department, by a technical college, a college or a university, a private or public institution or organization, or a firearms training school.
    d. A firearms safety or training course that is offered to law enforcement officers or to owners and employees of licensed private detective and security agencies.
    e. A firearms safety or training course that is conducted by a firearms instructor who is certified by a national or state organization that certifies firearms instructors or who is certified by the department.
    What the DOJ did was amend the definition of what a "firearms safety or training course" is, and they changed what must be on the document which the instructor of such a course must provide.

    Jus 17.03  Definitions. In this chapter:
    (7) "Firearms safety or training course" means a course of instructor-led training that provides a certificate or affidavit of successful completion that includes the items specified in s. Jus 17.05 (2) (a) and that, at a minimum, instructs on, and practices the student's comprehension of, firearm safety rules; safe firearm and ammunition use, handling, transport, and storage; legally permissible possession, transportation, and use of firearms, including use of deadly force; and techniques for avoiding and controlling violent confrontations
    .
    .
    .
    Jus 17.05  Training and documentation requirements.
    (2) Content requirements for training certificate or affidavit.
    (a) A certificate or affidavit supplied by the instructor or organization that is submitted to the department under sub. (1) (b), (c), (d), (e), (f), or (g) for the purpose of documenting that the applicant has successfully completed a firearms safety or training course shall include all of the following information:
    1. The applicant's name.
    2. The name of the firearms safety or training course.
    3. The date on which the applicant completed the firearms safety or training course.
    4. The name of the instructor who taught the firearms safety or training course to the applicant and the name of the agency or organization that certified the instructor.
    (b) In addition to a certificate or affidavit meeting the requirements of par. (a), the documentation of training submitted by an applicant shall include evidence sufficient to establish that the course completed by the applicant was a firearms safety and training course as defined in s. Jus 17.03 (7). Sufficient evidence shall include one of the following:
    1. A signed statement by the instructor who taught the firearms safety or training course to the applicant affirming that the course completed by the applicant was a firearms safety and training course as defined in s. Jus 17.03 (7).
    2. Information on the certificate or affidavit described in sub. (2) (a) sufficient to establish that the course completed by the applicant was a firearms safety and training course as defined in s. Jus 17.03 (7).
    3. A signed statement by the applicant as part of the application affirming that the applicant successfully completed a firearms safety or training course and describing the scope and contents of that course in a manner sufficient to determine that the course was a firearms safety and training course as defined in s. Jus 17.03 (7).
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 06-15-2013 at 01:57 AM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member vinchenzo's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply.

    What confused me was the amended definition, and what must be on the training course certificate.

    including use of deadly force; and techniques for avoiding and controlling violent confrontations
    I don't remember that being part of the hunters safety curriculum, but then again it has been quite some time since I've taken it. That's where my confusion came in.


    Thanks for the clarification.

  4. #4
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    Two different parts of the law.

    One does not cancel the other.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  5. #5
    Regular Member vinchenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Two different parts of the law.

    One does not cancel the other.
    Ok gotcha.

    I'm still new to attempting to interpret the law and reading statutes, so when I struggle I ask.

    Thanks for the response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinchenzo View Post
    Thanks for the reply.

    What confused me was the amended definition, and what must be on the training course certificate.



    I don't remember that being part of the hunters safety curriculum, but then again it has been quite some time since I've taken it. That's where my confusion came in.


    Thanks for the clarification.
    Yes, conflict avoidance is NOT part of the HS training. But Wisconsin and Florida will still take HS as qualifing training for CCW.

    JJC

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    The Training Requirements to receive a Wisconsin Concealed Carry License are listed on the DOJ web page:
    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/...g-requirements

    There is also a Frequently Asked Questions document that has been updated as of the June 1, 2013 permanent rules. This is on the DOJ FAQ page.
    Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP

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