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If you did not have a permit, how many minutes did your NCIC take to proceed?

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
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North Carolina
Since I use PPP here in NC I do not have to deal with the problems of NCIC on firearm purchases. Years ago when I attempted to use the system it was a disaster, on the weekend delays that went into over 24 hours, on every single transaction. I was told what the problem was, that problem is now deceased. I have been told by some that the problems are minimal, but to me they are not when I am on the loosing end.

So how instant was the instant check for you?
 

bunnspecial

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2012
Messages
154
Location
Kentucky
Every instant check I've done has truly been instant-it took me longer to fill out the 4473 than it did to get the "proceed." This includes both phone-in and e-check.

With the amount of business shops around here have had lately, I've generally spent a LOT more time waiting for an available register to pay for the gun than to get a response.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
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Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
And yet more changes to the story. This time you are clearly implying a "delay." Delays happen. Even I have had one (not yesterday when I bought my .22/.22 mag Heritage revolver). Even one of my associates who is a retired cop got delayed once. They happen. If the computer, for whatever reason, cannot make the instant call, it kicks out the query to be handled by a human. That takes time.

I don't like NICS checks any more than anyone else here. I believe them to be an infringement on the Right. That being said, at the moment, if you buy from an FFL, they are the law.

Delays add up to three business days (five days over a weekend, six if a holiday is thrown in). After that time, if the government can't get its act together, the FFL can sell the gun without a "proceed." Delays can be as short as a few minutes. Some customers have not gotten out of the store before the delay became a proceed. The computer was down and came back up. The process was completed by the computer, and the proceed was spit out.

However, if one knows that the delay will turn into a deny, one will run far and fast from it, and then be all indignant about it. I think that is what has happened in the case one post up.
 

skidmark

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Valhalla
WoW, At no time, in no reply did I ever say I was deny. I said I didn't pass the check, that is what I said, and I didn't. If this was to qualify as an instant check, then I can still say I didn't pass it. I never did this before, least not that I can remember. I expected, and the seller confirmed this, that I would give him my DL and the money, he would do whatever, and it would be a done deal. The way he described it, made it seem as though some sellers do it many different ways. He said there would be no wait period. When I did the check and it was flagged or whatever, delayed, I expected it was because of my criminal record, worse, a criminal record that I didn't, and don't deserve. He said same as you "no big deal, just come back and pick it up when you get it cleared up or when it clears possibly on it's own. I told him I had no intention of returning and he should sell to someone else. Then drove home thinking about what it was that flagged the instant check. Sidenote- It wasn't easy for me to fill that stupid form out also, I had to be racist and put white. He would not accept me crossing it out and writing in "human"

Besides, I thought you weren't talking to me. Not that i mind, I'll address all topics and replys that come my way. Just confused.

There are three, and only three, possible outcomes on a NCIC check.

#1 - Proceed

#2 - Delay (meaning for whatever reason NCIC cannot figure things out at the moment)

#3 - Deny

Now you throw a whole new ball of wax into the mix: "He said there would be no wait period." Waiting periods are the mandatory delay between when you pay for your firearm and when you can legally pick it up and take it home. They are sometimes referred to as "cooling off periods". In order to pay for your firearm you need to get a PROCEED on the NCIC check.

You admit that you have a criminal record. It would seem logical therefore that you know what crimes are in your criminal record. It does not take a rocket surgeon to figure out if one or more of those crimes are most likely disqualifiers. It takes some, but not a whole lot, of time and effort to get "unfair" or improper criminal records expunged.

This http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MLp7YNTznE might not apply, but right now the odds are more in favor than against it.

stay safe.
 
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MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
bunnspecial said:
Every instant check I've done has truly been instant-it took me longer to fill out the 4473 than it did to get the "proceed."
Ditto.

joanie said:
I was forced to pick a race other than "human"... I had to be racist and put white. He would not accept me crossing it out and writing in "human"
Glad to hear someone else does this.

I could not pass it while I was there, so I chose not to return and swore off all such purchases.
There are lots of good reasons to be delayed, all of which can be sorted out if you go through the process already explained in the other thread (and do not have a criminal or psych record which makes you a prohibited person).
There are lots of good reasons to buy privately, but doing so because you can't pass a NICS check at a dealer is not one of them.

joanie said:
At no time, in no reply did I ever say I was deny.
I said I didn't pass the check, that is what I said, and I didn't.
In your other thread, where you've also gotten much good advice and help, you said you were denied.
And if you don't pass the check, that results in a denial.
If there's something that needs looking into, it's a delay and the FFL will tell you that.

skidmark said:
You admit that you have a criminal record. It would seem logical therefore that you know what crimes are in your criminal record. It does not take a rocket surgeon to figure out if one or more of those crimes are most likely disqualifiers. It takes some, but not a whole lot, of time and effort to get "unfair" or improper criminal records expunged.
This was addressed by many people in the other thread she posted being upset about driving from Grove City (Columbus area) to the Cleveland area. Never did understand why she didn't use a local FFL to save the driving. Have the gun shipped to the local.
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
My appoligies, I had not intended on this being a Joanie thread. Joanie, I have no problem with you posting, but keep in mind your issues were addressed and help was offered. I do value your input into how long it took if you were delayed. But I do not want this to be a bash Joanie, or a Joanie against the world thread. I hope you understand.

My problems and they are over ten years old go back to a man with the same name wanted in several countries for some very bad things. The baffling part was he had a different date of birth, lived in a different country, or countries, and clearly was not I. When I addressed the problem to the sheriff he investigated and told me and advised using PPP for every purchase. Problem was solved. Even if I had obtained a PIN, I would have still gone through somewhat of a wait, because on weekends gun shows seemed to put a strain on the system. FFL dealers told me at that time wait was at least 30 minutes. It seems it has got faster except when the system crashes.

While most people do not get delays, I can sympathize with Joanie as it is completely frustrating. And it does make you feel like a criminal when the FFL comes back and says you are delayed. And people around assume there are Joanie type circumstances for it. I have not called yet about the process for a PIN, but will need to as PPP will be no longer very soon. Maybe eye can outline again who to contact and the process for us.

If a person has drove miles and miles to get a delay they have three choices. Spend money for a hotel, go home and forget it, or continue driving back and forth. None of them I find acceptable.
 
Last edited:

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
Skidmark,............... please do not address me futher on this or any other topic. Thank you

You will lose out on this. I have found Skid to be a good source of information, anecdotal expieriance and OC law. You are new here and seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Your blustery attitude will win you no friends here.


On the other note......I have a relative in Philadelphia with the same name as mine. He is a union thug and not very popular with the local government (teamsters vp). Because of him I will get delayed, not denied, every time I try to purchase a weapon without my 03FFL. I know it will delayed so I factor that in on an acquisition.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
You will lose out on this. I have found Skid to be a good source of information, anecdotal expieriance and OC law. You are new here and seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Your blustery attitude will win you no friends here.


On the other note......I have a relative in Philadelphia with the same name as mine. He is a union thug and not very popular with the local government (teamsters vp). Because of him I will get delayed, not denied, every time I try to purchase a weapon without my 03FFL. I know it will delayed so I factor that in on an acquisition.

This is what baffles me, it is the same system police use when running a check. With DOB added name there are no problems with a stop. Even years ago before Al Gore invented the internet I could be clear that individuals were free of convictions and warrants in a timely manner. Yet to this day it seems that the government is not up to date with firearms background checks, as compared to running a criminal check in the field. I have been stopped a couple times for license checks as a CDL operator, and with my name being the same, and using my DOB I NEVER had a problem.
 

wizzi01

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2012
Messages
127
Location
Detroit
Once they actually got the information inputted. I would say about 2 seconds, and that is giving time for lag in the system.
 

Grapeshot

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Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
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Valhalla
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by joanie

WoW, At no time, in no reply did I ever say I was deny. I said I didn't pass the check, that is what I said, and I didn't. If this was to qualify as an instant check, then I can still say I didn't pass it. I never did this before, least not that I can remember. I expected, and the seller confirmed this, that I would give him my DL and the money, he would do whatever, and it would be a done deal. The way he described it, made it seem as though some sellers do it many different ways. He said there would be no wait period. When I did the check and it was flagged or whatever, delayed, I expected it was because of my criminal record, worse, a criminal record that I didn't, and don't deserve. He said same as you "no big deal, just come back and pick it up when you get it cleared up or when it clears possibly on it's own. I told him I had no intention of returning and he should sell to someone else. Then drove home thinking about what it was that flagged the instant check. Sidenote- It wasn't easy for me to fill that stupid form out also, I had to be racist and put white. He would not accept me crossing it out and writing in "human"

Besides, I thought you weren't talking to me. Not that i mind, I'll address all topics and replys that come my way. Just confused.
There are three, and only three, possible outcomes on a NCIC check.

#1 - Proceed

#2 - Delay (meaning for whatever reason NCIC cannot figure things out at the moment)

#3 - Deny

Now you throw a whole new ball of wax into the mix: "He said there would be no wait period." Waiting periods are the mandatory delay between when you pay for your firearm and when you can legally pick it up and take it home. They are sometimes referred to as "cooling off periods". In order to pay for your firearm you need to get a PROCEED on the NCIC check.

You admit that you have a criminal record. It would seem logical therefore that you know what crimes are in your criminal record. It does not take a rocket surgeon to figure out if one or more of those crimes are most likely disqualifiers. It takes some, but not a whole lot, of time and effort to get "unfair" or improper criminal records expunged.

This http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MLp7YNTznE might not apply, but right now the odds are more in favor than against it.

stay safe.
Skidmark, this topic is about how many minutes did your NCIC take to proceed? please do not address me futher on this or any other topic. Thank you

Skidmark was replying to your post. Therefore if anyone went off-topic, it would have been you. IMO it is not off-topic to correct the false impression you gave, especially arguing the semantics between "didn't pass the check" and denied/delayed.

You may ignore or not respond to any user as you wish, but you do not enjoy the privilege of limiting or controlling who responds to anything here.
 

b0neZ

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
505
Location
Davis County, Utah
Least amount of time was ~3 minutes, longest was just over an hour (2 major gun shows happening that weekend, combined with DPS only having 2 operators handling the checks).
 

eye95

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Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Didn't pass the check = denied.

Delayed = the check is not complete.

If you say, "did not pass the check," you said "denied."

The FFL would have clearly explained to you "delay" and that it could turn into a proceed or deny later, or, after about five days, he could simply transfer you the firearm then. However, you drama-queened what happened to you and tried not to be pinned down to the actual facts and refused all offers of help.

You have met the enemy--and the enemy is you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

eye95

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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
To give folks an idea of how long an instant check is:

It takes about 3 minutes to enter the information into the NICS website. We then click a button for retrieve. A list of all current checks for our FFL comes up. Usually, the current check says "NEW." We click on that, and a "CONTINUE" button comes up. We click on that, and there is the PROCEED or the DENY. If it is a DELAY, we will see that instead of NEW.

After keying in the information, it is seconds before we see the NEW. On rare occasions, it is a few minutes. If it takes longer than that, we'll say, "I feel a delay coming on."


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

skidmark

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Jan 15, 2007
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Valhalla
Skidmark, this topic is about how many minutes did your NCIC take to proceed? please do not address me futher on this or any other topic. Thank you

OK, let's actually stay on topic just for the grins & giggles.

Every NICS check I have gone through has resulted in a DELAY that was resolved just short of the 3-busines-days time limit. Every single blessed one.

And I know precisely why. And can do nothing about it but be moderately to highly amused.

Any time my name/SSN pops up in a database check a red flag goes up and whoever is running the check receives a notice to contact an operatot at either NSA or NIS (Naval Intelligene Service). My government apparently intends, from roughly 1972 when they started this until the day after I die, to know who is checking up on me and why. There are no skeletons involved and nobody's career or name will be hurt if what I might or might not know (but that I can not confirm nor can I deny that I do or do not know) is ever released.

Do I have a record of convictions for criminal acts? Nope. Everything I was charged with at that General Court Martial was reported as not guilty, and the NJP for wilfull destruction of government property (to wit: one (1) .45ACP round) is considered a civil rather trhan criminal matter. The fact that I've been arrested a few times since seems not to bother anybody because the charges were dismissed with prejudice or I was found not guilty.

So - knowing/expecting that I am going to get a DELAY, what do I do? Basically I look at the FFL and smile while telling them I expected it and that I'll be back in three days to complete the transfer. Yes, it's a PITA as well as irritating to know why it happens, but the only two alternatives are to be locked up in a federal supermax or to be dead. I'll pass on both for as long as I can.

But here's the thing - I used the system to find out why I was always coming up as a DELAY. It took a bit more work than most folks who are trying to find out why they came up DENY or DELAY, but it got done because I followed the steps instead of whining and whinging.

stay safe.
 

WalkingWolf

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Messages
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North Carolina
I spent so many years dealing with NCIC, it is almost automatic to post that instead of NICS. But NCIC functions at a alarmingly better and more efficient then NICS, and they use the same arrest or conviction records. There has to be a level of incompetence that one can be clear on one system, and have delays on the other. As I suspected it seems the same people are consistently getting delayed, so the claims that it is minor is not true if on the receiving end. If the government can't fix it, to treat all citizens the same, it needs to go.
 
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