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Thread: Talking Points for new Ill. CHL w.r.t. Chicago vs. Detroit, MI

  1. #1
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    Talking Points for new Ill. CHL w.r.t. Chicago vs. Detroit, MI

    Hi all -

    I just registered an account here to ask this question, so I'm sure I've yet to learn much about how this forum works and where best to pose my questions (in fact, this is a repost after a misplaced first try)... With that said, I'm a CHL-holding, reasonably politically-active pro-2A guy here in metro Portland, OR. I've been closely following the developments of concealed carry in Illinois, and I've engaged in my share of debates lately on predictions that the beginning of CC will be an inflection point for violence in Chicago.

    Here's the rub. Until a few days ago, I thought that CC in Illinois was going to eventually make measurable progress in deterring violence in Chicago as it is phased in over the next 18 months, but I read an article while investigating the recent bond defaults of Detroit, MI - apparently on a per-capita basis, violent crime is more common in THIS city, and Michigan DOES have complete state pre-emption with statewide CHL.

    So now I'm more on the fence. I want to believe that CC will help the situation, but Detroit as a case study seems to point to inefficacy. Can any brilliant minds here explain to me why these two cities are different? Perhaps give me some food for thought on why CC might help in Chicago where it hasn't in Detroit?

    LL&P... -Matt

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    Quote Originally Posted by data8504 View Post
    Hi all -

    I just registered an account here to ask this question, so I'm sure I've yet to learn much about how this forum works and where best to pose my questions (in fact, this is a repost after a misplaced first try)... With that said, I'm a CHL-holding, reasonably politically-active pro-2A guy here in metro Portland, OR. I've been closely following the developments of concealed carry in Illinois, and I've engaged in my share of debates lately on predictions that the beginning of CC will be an inflection point for violence in Chicago.

    Here's the rub. Until a few days ago, I thought that CC in Illinois was going to eventually make measurable progress in deterring violence in Chicago as it is phased in over the next 18 months, but I read an article while investigating the recent bond defaults of Detroit, MI - apparently on a per-capita basis, violent crime is more common in THIS city, and Michigan DOES have complete state pre-emption with statewide CHL.

    So now I'm more on the fence. I want to believe that CC will help the situation, but Detroit as a case study seems to point to inefficacy. Can any brilliant minds here explain to me why these two cities are different? Perhaps give me some food for thought on why CC might help in Chicago where it hasn't in Detroit?

    LL&P... -Matt
    Detroit and Chicago have many different and some similar circumstances, but they are not an apples to apples comparison. The Detroit infrastructure has generally collapsed, that can't be said for Chicago. I don't think anyone needs to explain "why" the two cities are different, only recognize that they are. Detroit is hardly a typical city - with the flight from the area of good people and businesses leaving a much reduced base that can benefit from any good laws. In short, one cannot conclude that because Detroit might have higher crime rate that it is because of preemption.

    While there are no guarantees on an individual city basis that if A happens B will follow, there are certainly historical references and studies that indicate very strongly that where people are allowed to carry for self-defense that violent crimes against persons decreases.

    http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less.../dp/0226493636
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    Does an increase in the population carrying lower the crime rate in a city compared to other cities, or does it just lower the crime rate in a city compared to what it would have otherwise been? Detroit is in the crapper due to economic reasons that were "fixed" with ultra-liberal policies. Most of the upright, contributing, law-abiding citizens have fled for saner climes. If all you have left are the sleazy, taking, law-breaking, then the arming of the good guys, who are basically gone, would have done little to reduce crime by those who remain.

    I expect that the good guys in Chicago being armed will have a marked effect on crime as they demonstrate that they are willing to fight back.

    Compare Chicago post-carry to Chicago pre-carry, not to another city that has a whole host of problems that Chicago doesn't.
    Last edited by eye95; 06-16-2013 at 07:34 AM.

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