Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: examiner-com - Petersburg, Va. Circuit Court Clerk backs down to gun group

  1. #1
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    examiner-com - Petersburg, Va. Circuit Court Clerk backs down to gun group

    http://www.examiner.com/article/pete...n-to-gun-group

    SNIP

    McNeil’s petition was backed by Virginia’s largest gun rights group, the Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL). VCDL President Philip Van Cleave said that

    “we bent over backwards to give the Clerk every opportunity to comply with Virginia law. But when she refused, we had no choice to but to petition the Supreme Court for a Writ of Mandamus.”

    On June 3d, McNeil’s and VCDL’s attorney received a letter from Braxton stating that she is going to follow Virginia law on issuing CHPs by accepting renewals through the mail, and will ask for only one check for $50 total. Apparently “that Writ of Mandamus worked like Ex-lax,” said John Pierce, co-founder of OpenCarry.org and an attorney in Virginia specializing in “gun trusts.”

    Though not surprised that a few Circuit Court Clerks are ignoring the streamlined CHP processing reforms enacted last year, Pierce and Van Cleave say the public is growing impatient with elected Circuit Court Clerks who do not follow the law.

    What’s next?

    Van Cleave’s group appears to be scrutinizing what it calls “a troubling practice” in Botetourt County where CHP applicants are being intimidated into submitting to police “mug shots.”

    “Botetourt County is photographing CHP applicants and that applicants are required to come to the Circuit Court Clerk's office in person to pick up their newly issued permits,” claimed the League in a recent email alert to its members.

    VCDL urges the public to refuse to comply with such extra-legal requirements even if it means delaying the approval of the CHP. Unless citizens stand up for their rights like McNeil did in Petersburg, their rights will be continued to be infringed,” says Van Cleave.

    ...

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    796
    Very nice to see the press actually including the really good sound bites!
    NRA Life Member

    "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    South Chesterfield, VA
    Posts
    315
    Received my permit in the mail today. Now to see that they follow the law for other peoples applications.

  4. #4
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by builtjeep View Post
    Received my permit in the mail today. Now to see that they follow the law for other peoples applications.
    Did they spit on it?

    Congrats, and as so many others have said before me, thank you for making this system better for all of us.

    TFred

  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,619
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Did they spit on it?

    Congrats, and as so many others have said before me, thank you for making this system better for all of us.

    TFred
    builtjeep stood tall and lead the way in spite of some considerable inconvenience to himself - he persevered.

    He deserves the recognition for a job well done
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Did they spit on it?

    Congrats, and as so many others have said before me, thank you for making this system better for all of us.

    TFred
    Is it spit or just licking the envelope.....It's a matta o ....in ta pa tation!

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    South Chesterfield, VA
    Posts
    315
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Is it spit or just licking the envelope.....It's a matta o ....in ta pa tation!
    It certainly feels tainted.

    Honestly, the whole ordeal has really soured me on the permit as a whole. I've long understood your stance Peter, and agreed, but chose to deal with the negative aspects so that I would be covered in those situations where the permit was needed (heavy coat in winter, dealing with unfriendly to OC areas/people, etc) so that I would be able to protect myself and my family if necessary (I know the gun isn't the only tool, I've trained in martial arts, disarming tactics, as well as knife and stick fighting techniques).

    I've decided that I will not be renewing my VA permit again, I may apply for an Arizona or some other out of state permit just to cover the grounds mentioned above, unless we can finally get constitutional carry, which is what I would truly like to see and will be lobbying for. I know that an out of state permit is still compromising on an inalienable right, but at least VSP, local papers, etc. will not have any way of knowing. Still, having a piece of paper now makes me feel more like a criminal with a get out of jail free card, which technically, is exactly what it is.

    The upshot is that I have a greater enthusiasm for fighting back against the .gov, it was definitely fun (despite the stress) to make them sweat. Still waiting to see her in an interview *Peter.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    South Chesterfield, VA
    Posts
    315
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    builtjeep stood tall and lead the way in spite of some considerable inconvenience to himself - he persevered.

    He deserves the recognition for a job well done
    I don't want any recognition, I'd have gotten nowhere without the assistance of you, Peter, VCDL, and OCDO. The credit lies with our community, I simply brought it to their attention and acted as the plaintiff. I'm forever indebted to this community for the support and advice I have received in this matter as well as others. In fact it was the advice that I received 5 years ago that prompted me to lay the trap as well as I could this time. I've spent more than I care to tally on certified mail, I've got a collection of return reciepts (which amusingly is how they sent the permit, CYA I guess), documents signed and copied, etc. that will stay in my filing cabinet in case this ever comes up again, and I've made arrangements to verify that they are sticking to the law. We shall see if that story ends here or not.

    There are and were far more pressing matters on the agenda for our community, I'm glad to have played the role that I could, and hope that I can contribute further in the future to other ventures.

  9. #9
    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Henrico, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    697

    Edmund Burke had it right...

    All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. You took a stand. We can learn from your example. Our community needs victories to inspire us and you gave us one. We all won with you but you took the shot. Not everyone would, though we need everyone to do so. Whether you want it or not, I salute you for your effort and applaud your success.
    Appleseed, Virginia State Coordinator
    Are you a Rifleman yet?
    http://appleseedinfo.org

  10. #10
    Regular Member HearseGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by builtjeep View Post
    I don't want any recognition, I'd have gotten nowhere without the assistance of you, Peter, VCDL, and OCDO. The credit lies with our community, I simply brought it to their attention and acted as the plaintiff. I'm forever indebted to this community for the support and advice I have received in this matter as well as others. In fact it was the advice that I received 5 years ago that prompted me to lay the trap as well as I could this time. I've spent more than I care to tally on certified mail, I've got a collection of return reciepts (which amusingly is how they sent the permit, CYA I guess), documents signed and copied, etc. that will stay in my filing cabinet in case this ever comes up again, and I've made arrangements to verify that they are sticking to the law. We shall see if that story ends here or not.

    There are and were far more pressing matters on the agenda for our community, I'm glad to have played the role that I could, and hope that I can contribute further in the future to other ventures.
    Spoken like a true gentleman. So great to see the VCDL, OCDO and the entire gun community come together and make things happen.

    I will still however give you recognition for standing your ground and making them do it right. You could have easily said, "whatever, I'll just do what they say and get this whole shinanigan over with as long as I get my permit". But you didn't. You had the fortitude to get the right people involved and make them do it right even though it was no doubt an inconvenience and rather stressful for you. And the gun community in VA thanks you and everyone involved.
    Last edited by HearseGuy; 06-27-2013 at 03:53 PM.
    Additional text for your reading pleasure...

  11. #11
    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Poulsbo, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    449

    Mechanics of a Writ

    Mike, Et al. can you provide a basic overview of the nuts and bolts with regard to moving a writ through the system.

    Do I need a lawyer to file?

    Can I go down to the court and file myself?

    Do I need to understand and articulate any legal vernacular?

    Do I have to appear in court or is this a "paper work drill"?

    Was there a cost or fee associated with your filing?

    Any insight you can provide is greatly appreciated.

    ~Whitney
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    South Chesterfield, VA
    Posts
    315
    The process may be very different in Washington than it is in Virginia.

    Here, a lawyer is not necessary, you can file the writ pro se, however I think it is usually best to have representation if possible. I was fortunate in that the VCDL stepped up to provide the services of an attorney.

    There is legal vernacular required to some extent, at least in writing the petition for writ, and any filings in support of your position.

    If the official decides to fight it, you will have to appear in court.
    There are fees associated, again, I was fortunate enough to have the VCDL handling that side, so I don't know the exact totals, which will vary state to state most likely anyway.

    IANAL, etc etc. Best bet would be to speak to a lawyer in your area.
    Last edited by builtjeep; 06-27-2013 at 10:16 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •