Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Virginia Beach PD training concerning OC

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Tidewater, Virginia, ,
    Posts
    38

    Virginia Beach PD training concerning OC

    I spoke with a new Virginia Beach PD officer in training, and asked what they taught concerning OC. He said that they were teaching that it is illegal to carry in banks. (I'm not sure why this training was specifically concerning OC, as CC would also be in violation if this was, in fact, correct.) I told him that this was not illegal, and that I OC in banks without problem. He then responded that there are bank robberies every week at the beach, and that OC in banks would have a high likelihood of being shot. (I know this isn't true, either, but that is what he said.)

    Can anyone corroborate that this is what is being taught in their training? And if this is what is being taught, what is the next step to take to see that this training is corrected? (I am not a Virginia Beach resident, but am there frequently.)

    Thanks for the help!
    Glenn
    Last edited by GLW; 03-26-2015 at 02:00 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by GLW View Post
    I spoke with a new Virginia Beach PD officer in training, and asked what they taught concerning OC. He said that they were teaching that it is illegal to carry in banks. (I'm not sure why this training was specifically concerning OC, as CC would also be in violation if this was, in fact, correct.) I told him that this was not illegal, and that I OC in banks without problem. He then responded that there are bank robberies every week at the beach, and that OC in banks would have a high likelihood of being shot. (I know this isn't true, either, but that is what he said.)

    Can anyone corroborate that this is what is being taught in their training? And if this is what is being taught, what is the next step to take to see that this training is corrected? (I am not a Virginia Beach resident, but am there frequently.)

    Thanks for the help!
    Glenn
    This must be one of those immortal "wives tales" about gun carry that just will not die. I was taught this in my first CHP class (NOT by anyone who frequents this forum...) and the excuse they used was the FDIC insurance.

    Ask your new PD friend to show you the law. Be prepared for a long wait.

    TFred

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Tidewater, Virginia, ,
    Posts
    38
    Hi TFred,

    I agree that there is no law about it. My biggest concern is what we can do about this myth so that the VBPD have accurate training.

    Glenn

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    This must be one of those immortal "wives tales" about gun carry that just will not die. I was taught this in my first CHP class (NOT by anyone who frequents this forum...) and the excuse they used was the FDIC insurance.

    Ask your new PD friend to show you the law. Be prepared for a long wait.

    TFred
    Ask your soon-to-be-a-real-cop to show you the training curriculum/class notes that provides him with this information.

    Then go to a City Council meeting with copies and ask them to explain why the cops are being trained this way.

    Mention to any reporter present at the meeting that you are going to do that.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Ask your soon-to-be-a-real-cop to show you the training curriculum/class notes that provides him with this information.

    Then go to a City Council meeting with copies and ask them to explain why the cops are being trained this way.

    Mention to any reporter present at the meeting that you are going to do that.

    stay safe.
    And, write a complaint to the PD internal affairs section. With copies to:

    1. City Attorney (who wants to know that a lawsuit is coming down the pike when a cop arrests an OCer for legal carry.)
    2. The magistrate's office (so they will know in advance that sooner or later an OCer may be arrested because the PD is teaching wrong law.)

    At the bottom of the complaint, be sure to list who you're sending copies. That is,
    "Cc: City Attorney
    Magistrates"



    Personally, I wouldn't bother to get curriculum notes and so forth. I'd just let the mess hit the fan, and let the PD sort it out. If they're not actually teaching that, then their academy recruit can explain himself to them. And, forwarding wrong law can be the first entry in his personnel file. If they are teaching wrong law, then its their problem to clean up. They're the instructors for pete's sake; they're the last people who should be making it up as they go along. They're the first people who should be opening the VA Code to verify what the statutes say. But, that's just me. I wouldn't criticize anybody who did want to get the curriculum notes under, say, the VA Freedom of Information Act.

    No matter which way its done, when its all over, the PD will be reminded that OCers are vigilant, and know their stuff.
    Last edited by Citizen; 06-17-2013 at 11:53 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    If I were a betting man (and I'm not...) here's how I would bet it's happening:

    1. Recruit attends training.
    2. Instructor has course outline.
    3. Instructor reaches section on legal carry of firearms.
    4. Course outline reads something like:
    A. Concealed Carry
    1. CHPs
    2. Other (secured in vehicle) [A guy can dream can't he?]
    B. Open Carry
    C. Places where gun carry is prohibited
    [Instructor rattles off list he's heard around the station, the water cooler, the bar after shift...]

    No documentation, all gossip.

    That's my guess.

    TFred

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    796
    We recently had another thread which discussed things such as OC in banks. At that time I made a comment about how in VB IF you walk into a bank that has a sign, that it likely that managers of those banks have been told to presume that it is a bank robbery and talked about what response may come from that. That turned into a long discussion as to whether or not signs were notice, and on and on.

    Given what was said in that thread I'm not sure why any of the above should be much of a surprise.
    NRA Life Member

    "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

  8. #8
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Mid-atlantic
    Posts
    1,505
    Here's how I read this comment, if, indeed it occurred that way.

    Trainee has been given information, but on his own decided he didn't like OC in banks. He senses a golden opportunity to promulgate this desire when asked about VB OC and told the OP that as a way to 'get in' his viewpoint. He might even know there's no such law.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Tidewater, Virginia, ,
    Posts
    38
    Thank you for all the info, folks. This was just what I need. I will talk with him again, and ask him to think very clearly about what was said, how it was said, and if there are notes concerning the teaching. I will also tell him that I will be contacting the various city officials about this erroneous teaching. I will be interested in seeing his response.

    Glenn

  10. #10
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Accomac, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,213
    Quote Originally Posted by GLW View Post
    Thank you for all the info, folks. This was just what I need. I will talk with him again, and ask him to think very clearly about what was said, how it was said, and if there are notes concerning the teaching. I will also tell him that I will be contacting the various city officials about this erroneous teaching. I will be interested in seeing his response.

    Glenn
    Let us know what happens, and a recording of the conversation would be good.
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")
    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA
    Posts
    27
    Like many others, I am skeptical that the trainee accurately described his training. The other comment, about the "likelihood of being shot," makes his remarks even more suspect. Please update the thread after you ask him for clarification.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    If I were a betting man (and I'm not...) here's how I would bet it's happening:

    1. Recruit attends training.
    2. Instructor has course outline.
    3. Instructor reaches section on legal carry of firearms.
    4. Course outline reads something like:
    A. Concealed Carry
    1. CHPs
    2. Other (secured in vehicle) [A guy can dream can't he?]
    B. Open Carry
    C. Places where gun carry is prohibited
    [Instructor rattles off list he's heard around the station, the water cooler, the bar after shift...]

    No documentation, all gossip.

    That's my guess.

    TFred
    So, with the curriculum as above in hand, you query the instructor as to whether he ever taught that OC in banks was illegal. Instructor responds in the negative. Yet we have the recruit/trainee stating that he was in fact so instructed.

    Been there, done that more times that I care to remember when preparing the agency for a lawsuit trial. I can guanantee you that the instructor will swear on a stack of class handouts that they never, ever said anything even remotely resembling that, and that if the question ever came up they were positive they would have answered by citing te law or lack thereof. Which was just what the agency wanted - it and the person responsible for providing training get to testify that thney never said that, thus getting excused as defendants and leaving the fool employee hanging out there all alone to pay damages. And then, as icing on the cake, when the lawsuit reveals that the poor employee was behaving other than as instructed and trained, he gets to be fired with no appeal because he has aleady testified under oath that he violated policy/procedure by failing to adhere to training and instruction.

    And even if this VB police trainee does not get body-slammed with damages and a termination notice, he will have to go back and repeat that portion of the training so his personnel record can show his misinterpretation was appropriately corrected and he now knows how to follow the accepted knowledge as handed down by the training academy.

    No matter how you slice it, it comes out a win for our side.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  13. #13
    Regular Member USNA69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Norfolk, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    375
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    So, with the curriculum as above in hand, you query the instructor as to whether he ever taught that OC in banks was illegal. Instructor responds in the negative. Yet we have the recruit/trainee stating that he was in fact so instructed.

    Been there, done that more times that I care to remember when preparing the agency for a lawsuit trial. I can guanantee you that the instructor will swear on a stack of class handouts that they never, ever said anything even remotely resembling that, and that if the question ever came up they were positive they would have answered by citing te law or lack thereof. Which was just what the agency wanted - it and the person responsible for providing training get to testify that thney never said that, thus getting excused as defendants and leaving the fool employee hanging out there all alone to pay damages. And then, as icing on the cake, when the lawsuit reveals that the poor employee was behaving other than as instructed and trained, he gets to be fired with no appeal because he has aleady testified under oath that he violated policy/procedure by failing to adhere to training and instruction.

    And even if this VB police trainee does not get body-slammed with damages and a termination notice, he will have to go back and repeat that portion of the training so his personnel record can show his misinterpretation was appropriately corrected and he now knows how to follow the accepted knowledge as handed down by the training academy.

    No matter how you slice it, it comes out a win for our side.

    stay safe.
    But, wouldn't it be interesting to subpoena other trainees who attended the same class as the defendant, place them under oath, and ask them what they were taught in the same class?

  14. #14
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037
    I've had a career VB officer as recently as five or six years ago tell me that OC is illegal in cities with populations above 200,000 (or something like that).

    This is the same officer who believes I advocate random violence against police officers, too...
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •