DamonK
Regular Member
Beautiful man, that's exactly what I was looking for!
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LEOs running serial numbers
- Thread starter DamonK
- Start date
Beautiful man, that's exactly what I was looking for!
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bmg50cal
Regular Member
Wow, a coastie that does not know what Title 14 U.S.C. does... oh wait someone mentioned the reserve component.
Basicly getting stopped by the USCG is in no way shape and form like getting pulled over for a burned out tail light or failing to signal a lane change. It is another game entirely.
XmmAuto
New member
Wow, a coastie that does not know what Title 14 U.S.C. does... oh wait someone mentioned the reserve component.
Basicly getting stopped by the USCG is in no way shape and form like getting pulled over for a burned out tail light or failing to signal a lane change. It is another game entirely.
Title 14 USC Part I Chapter 5 subsection 89
The Coast Guard may make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States. For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction, or to the operation of any law, of the United States, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship’s documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance. When from such inquiries, examination, inspection, or search it appears that a breach of the laws of the United States rendering a person liable to arrest is being, or has been committed, by any person, such person shall be arrested or, if escaping to shore, shall be immediately pursued and arrested on shore, or other lawful and appropriate action shall be taken; or, if it shall appear that a breach of the laws of the United States has been committed so as to render such vessel, or the merchandise, or any part thereof, on board of, or brought into the United States by, such vessel, liable to forfeiture, or so as to render such vessel liable to a fine or penalty and if necessary to secure such fine or penalty, such vessel or such merchandise, or both, shall be seized.
(b) The officers of the Coast Guard insofar as they are engaged, pursuant to the authority contained in this section, in enforcing any law of the United States shall:
(1) be deemed to be acting as agents of the particular executive department or independent establishment charged with the administration of the particular law; and
(2) be subject to all the rules and regulations promulgated by such department or independent establishment with respect to the enforcement of that law.
(c) The provisions of this section are in addition to any powers conferred by law upon such officers, and not in limitation of any powers conferred by law upon such officers, or any other officers of the United States.
So am I to believe that this section of title 14 exempts the Coast guard from following the 4th amendment?
The Coast Guard does indeed have to enforce all laws. Even the Constitution.
Also does the status of being a reservist somehow make one individual inferior or less knowledgeable then an active duty counterpart?
Freedom1Man
Regular Member
I guess we'll have to figure out which "United States" they have authority to do those searches in. http://freedom-school.com/code-defines-united-states.pdf The code you refer to does not say that it applies in the 50 states and territories yada yada yada.
So it would seem that the coast guard does not have authority over a citizen's water craft at all. It does talk about vessels however in my 10 minutes of reading I did not look into what is defined, legally, as a vessel. I have drinking vessels and I am sure that the coast guard has no authority over them.
DamonK
Regular Member
In nautical terms, a vessel is any type or size of boat. And it is legal terminology.
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hermannr
Regular Member
I expect that sometime, someone is going to take this law to court for the CG overstepping the 4A.
Freedom1Man
Regular Member
Cite please.
XmmAuto
New member
I know you weren't asking me directly but here is the definition of vessel per the United States Code
Title I chapter 1 subsection 3
The word “vessel” includes every description of watercraft or other artificial contrivance used, or capable of being used, as a means of transportation on water.
The reason I posted originally was that I personally witnessed federal law enforcement officers
seizing and recording serial numbers of lawfully owned firearms during boardings of privately owned
"Vessels"
Now all persons consented to seizure and subsequent search as most do not know thier rights or are to afraid to assert thier rights to armed federal agents.
So lets look at a hypothetical situation.
A citizen is out enjoying an afternoon of fishing at Westport Wa.
Said citizen is lawfully and legally open carrying a firearm. While returning to the boat ramp
The USCG stops the citizen and boards his vessel. When the Boarding Officer asks if thier are any weapons on board the citizen says yes and without reaching for or touching the firearm turns to show the officer. Knowing his rights the citizen advises the officer that he objects to any seizure of the firearm and using the serial number for search or to be recorded. The Boarding Officer disregards and disarms the citizen anyway unloading his firearm and running the serial number. After conducting a inspection of the vessel, the officer finds no violations and proceeds to hand the citizen back his unloaded firearm and then leaves.
Was the citizens 4th amendment rights violated by the Boarding Officer?
Title I chapter 1 subsection 3
The word “vessel” includes every description of watercraft or other artificial contrivance used, or capable of being used, as a means of transportation on water.
The reason I posted originally was that I personally witnessed federal law enforcement officers
seizing and recording serial numbers of lawfully owned firearms during boardings of privately owned
"Vessels"
Now all persons consented to seizure and subsequent search as most do not know thier rights or are to afraid to assert thier rights to armed federal agents.
So lets look at a hypothetical situation.
A citizen is out enjoying an afternoon of fishing at Westport Wa.
Said citizen is lawfully and legally open carrying a firearm. While returning to the boat ramp
The USCG stops the citizen and boards his vessel. When the Boarding Officer asks if thier are any weapons on board the citizen says yes and without reaching for or touching the firearm turns to show the officer. Knowing his rights the citizen advises the officer that he objects to any seizure of the firearm and using the serial number for search or to be recorded. The Boarding Officer disregards and disarms the citizen anyway unloading his firearm and running the serial number. After conducting a inspection of the vessel, the officer finds no violations and proceeds to hand the citizen back his unloaded firearm and then leaves.
Was the citizens 4th amendment rights violated by the Boarding Officer?
rapgood
Regular Member
The Coast Guard is a border-security enforcement entity. One has no 4Am rights at the border (nor, effectively, for 100 miles within any U.S. border), citizen or not. We don't have to like it, but it is the law. Seems just plain wrong, huh?
Freedom1Man
Regular Member
Any law the violates the constitution is void as though it was never written.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Yep no regions or people have to give up their rights when I read the constitution.
Lammo
Regular Member
Another good resource is the Search and Seizure manual published by the Washington Association of Prosecuting Attorneys (WAPA), which can be found here: http://www.waprosecutors.org/MANUALS/search/May 2012 final Search Seizures and Confessions.pdf
The manual is updated once a year at minimum, more often if there is a major change (like something on the order of Arizona v. Gant, 556 U.S. 332 (2009)).
Lammo
Regular Member
There's a good article from The Firearm Blog on building an AR from an 80% lower. There are two parts to the article, find them here:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/05/02/billet-rifle-systems-80-receiver-part/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...tch-billet-rifle-systems-80-receiver-part-ii/
Beyond my skills at this point but maybe someday I'll have the time to give this a go.
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amlevin
Regular Member
Just remember, you have to do all the remaining 20% of the work yourself. If you "borrow" someone else's tools and equipment great, but YOU have to operate them or the ATF will nail someone for illegal "manufacturing".
Freedom1Man
Regular Member
Rent, borrow one is friendly and the other is business. I think it would be interesting to rent out equipment for people to make their own parts with.