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Thread: Is this legal? (Debt Collection)

  1. #1
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    Is this legal? (Debt Collection)

    On 06-17-2013, I received a voicemail from an unknown number. The voicemail was from a male individual who identified himself as "Mike Anderson". He claimed he was with "Process Verifications". He left his contact number at, 877-300-4842, and referenced a case number as: 2013-10380. In his voicemail, he stated that they have made two attempts to deliver "legal documents" to my address, and a "third and final" attempt would be made, and mentioned how I could face an FTA (Failure to Appear) if I did not receive the documents.

    Upon contacting the number, I spoke with an individual who identified himself as "Mr. Rodriguez", and he claimed to have been working for the debt collector who is handling my outstanding US Bank account, but denied being a debt collector. He informed me that I was going to be under investigation by my district attorneys office for fraud, and mentioned how I could be facing criminal charges, which would include heavy fines and jail time, however, he now mentioned that there is no lawsuit in action at "this time".

    He offered to settle "out of court" for a percentage, and claimed that the investigations would be dropped by the district attorneys office if I agreed to settle. Upon doing research on this organization online, it appears that these tactics have been used on multiple individuals in the past, and they have operated under various names. "Hampton West" being another name that they have done business as.

    I found these tactics to be very unethical. The US Bank account was back from 2007. I did not even know I owed them. Apparently, it's from an old overdrawn checking account that was overdrawn by a few hundred dollars, which has somehow accumulated up to nearly $2,000. I told him that I would be contacting US Bank in regards to resolving this debt. I then asked if he could mail he the documents that show how much I owe, and he refused. I am not sure what steps I should take here.

    I also live in Washington State, and I can guarantee that NO one has attempted to deliver me ANY documents. When I asked about it, he concluded that it's "no longer necessary" to deliver these documents, as he spoke with me on the phone. It just sounds really shady.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Definition:
    The statute of limitations on debt in Washington limits the time you can be sued for a debt.

    Oral Contract: 3 years
    Written Contract: 6 years
    Promissory Note: 6 years
    Open-Ended Accounts: 3 years

    It's quite likely that the bank itself wrote off your debt which was then picked up by a debt collection agency for fractions of a penny on the dollar. It's not unheard of for such agencies to try to collect debts that are beyond the statute of limitations and therefore legally noncollectable. It you pay, then it's entirely legal as you "volunteered" to pay.

    Assuming that the debt is genuine, then they no doubt have paperwork on it. Assuming that you still live at the same address, why didn't a letter reach you?

  3. #3
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    This advice comes from Clark Howard

    ---Always record any calls from/to a collector.
    ---If your debt is outside the statute of limitations, you are not required to pay up. However, you should honor your obligations when you're financially able to do so.
    ---You have the right to tell a collector never to contact you again. Use a drop dead letter* and send it via certified mail. You can still, however, be sued against the debt even after sending this letter.
    ---If you legitimately owe money and wish to make a deal to pay, never give a collector your checking account number over the phone. Collectors routinely take more money than they say they'll take.
    ---Never pay one cent until you have an agreement in writing stating your payment(s) will resolve the debt in full.

    *(Date)
    To Whom It May Concern:

    I have been contacted by your company about a debt you allege I owe. I am instructing you not to contact me further in connection with this debt. Under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, a federal law, you may not contact me further once I have notified you not to do so.

    Sincerely,
    (Name)
    (Account No.)

  4. #4
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    You might try checking out http://www.whatliesinyourdebt.com/ or http://zerodebtguaranteed.com/

    Legal, likely it's to scare you into paying a debt that you may or may not owe. Ethical though, no.

    If you admit that you owe the debt then you're on the hook for it.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    Demand documentation for everything.

    - A copy of the signed contract that shows that you are legally obligated to them for the amount owed.
    - Documentation of the amount owed.
    - Any and all attempts to contact you.
    - Copies of any recordings of phone conversations, if any.

    Admit nothing, deny everything and demand proof.

    I'm not a lawyer, but you have the right to see the documentation and if they're legitimate, they'll provide it to you.

    Good luck!

    -MH
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    Ignore these calls - it's a scam one way or another. Don;t talk to them, don;t respond in any way - these predators take money from the old and dumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    if its a debt collector then ignore them. or tell them to come out to your house to pick up the check and stand in your doorway with your gun on your hip. hold the check in one hand and your gun in the other hand. make sure to film
    Advocating someone commit a felony, even in an attempt to be funny (and failing miserably, BTW) is probably not in this site's best interest.
    Last edited by notalawyer; 06-20-2013 at 03:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    if its a debt collector then ignore them. or tell them to come out to your house to pick up the check and stand in your doorway with your gun on your hip. hold the check in one hand and your gun in the other hand. make sure to film
    I would never advise some one to use force or a show of force when not necessary except to defend ones self against a violent or perceived illegal attack.

    If people drew their firearms as much as CA Patriot advises them to, a lot of them could very well be charged with crimes.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    The US Bank account was back from 2007. I did not even know I owed them. Apparently, it's from an old overdrawn checking account that was overdrawn by a few hundred dollars, which has somehow accumulated up to nearly $2,000. I told him that I would be contacting US Bank in regards to resolving this debt.
    OPie has acknowledged the debt. To not pay the debt, interest and penalties is dishonest and dishonorable, at least, and the bleeding edge between progressive and conservative.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  10. #10
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    Re: Is this legal? (Debt Collection)

    On the odd occasion I've had to deal with "debt collectors".

    Never did I admit to anything over the phone (not even if they had the right person), and told them that if they are sure they have the right person, then to contact me my mail only and not to call anymore. After saying that, simply hang up.

    The mail contact only request is something they have to comply with per FDCPA. Only twice has someone actually followed through, and both times were found to be false.
    Last edited by b0neZ; 06-20-2013 at 05:08 PM.

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    The only advice I'd listen to in this thread is Mike's.

    Do NOT take CaP's advice! It could get you arrested or killed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b0neZ View Post
    The mail contact only request is something they have to comply with per FDCPA.
    Wow, a citation to law. Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, Public Law 95-109; 91 Stat. 874, codified as 15 U.S.C. § 1692 –1692p

    Prohibited conduct

    The Act prohibits certain types of "abusive and deceptive" conduct when attempting to collect debts, including the following:
    • Hours for phone contact: contacting consumers by telephone outside of the hours of 8:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. local time.
    • Failure to cease communication upon request: communicating with consumers in any way (other than litigation) after receiving written notice that said consumer wishes no further communication or refuses to pay the alleged debt, with certain exceptions, including advising that collection efforts are being terminated or that the collector intends to file a lawsuit or pursue other remedies where permitted.
    • Causing a telephone to ring or engaging any person in telephone conversation repeatedly or continuously: with intent to annoy, abuse, or harass any person at the called number.
    • Communicating with consumers at their place of employment after having been advised that this is unacceptable or prohibited by the employer.
    • Contacting consumer known to be represented by an attorney.
    • Communicating with consumer after request for validation has been made: communicating with the consumer or the pursuing collection efforts by the debt collector after receipt of a consumer's written request for verification of a debt made within the 30 day validation period (or for the name and address of the original creditor on a debt) and before the debt collector mails the consumer the requested verification or original creditor's name and address.
    • Misrepresentation or deceit: misrepresenting the debt or using deception to collect the debt, including a debt collector's misrepresentation that he or she is an attorney or law enforcement officer.
    • Publishing the consumer's name or address on a "bad debt" list.
    • Seeking unjustified amounts, which would include demanding any amounts not permitted under an applicable contract or as provided under applicable law.
    • Threatening arrest or legal action that is either not permitted or not actually contemplated.
    • Abusive or profane language used in the course of communication related to the debt.
    • Communication with third parties: revealing or discussing the nature of debts with third parties (other than the consumer's spouse or attorney) Collection agencies are allowed to contact neighbors or co-workers but only to obtain location information
    • Contact by embarrassing media, such as communicating with a consumer regarding a debt by post card, or using any language or symbol, other than the debt collector’s address, on any envelope when communicating with a consumer by use of the mails or by telegram, except that a debt collector may use his business name if such name does not indicate that he is in the debt collection business.
    • Reporting false information on a consumer's credit report or threatening to do so in the process of collection.


    Required conduct

    The Act requires debt collectors to do the following (among other requirements):
    • Identify themselves and notify the consumer, in every communication, that the communication is from a debt collector, and in the initial communication that any information obtained will be used to effect collection of the debt.
    • Give the name and address of the original creditor (company to which the debt was originally payable) upon the consumer's written request made within 30 days of receipt of the §1692g notice;
    • Notify the consumer of their right to dispute the debt (Section 805), in part or in full, with the debt collector. The 30-day "§1692g" notice is required to be sent by debt collectors within five days of the initial communication with the consumer, though in 2006 the definition of "initial communication" was amended to exclude "a formal pleading in a civil action" for purposes of triggering the §1692g notice, complicating the matter where the debt collector is an attorney or law firm. The consumer's receipt of this notice starts the clock running on the 30-day right to demand verification of the debt from the debt collector.
    • Provide verification of the debt If a consumer sends a written dispute or request for verification within 30 days of receiving the §1692g notice, then the debt collector must either mail the consumer the requested verification information or cease collection efforts altogether. Such asserted disputes must also be reported by the creditor to any credit bureau that reports the debt. Consumers may still dispute a debt verbally or after the thirty-day period has elapsed, but doing so waives the right to compel the debt collector to produce verification of the debt. Verification should include at a minimum the amount owed and the name and address of the original creditor.
    • File a lawsuit in a proper venue If a debt collector chooses to file a lawsuit, it may only be in a place where the consumer lives or signed the contract. Note, however, that this does not prevent the debt collector from being sued in other venues for violating the Act, such as when the consumer moves outside the venue and a letter demanding payment is forwarded to the new address, even if the debt collector is unaware of such a change in residence.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Scam. Do not reply. Might even consider changing your phone number. These are becoming more and more common.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Ways to answer the phone for unknown numbers...

    Whisper, "The job is done, you're still going to handle the bodies right?" or "The job is done, is there supposed to be that many bodies though?"

    Authoritarian voice (think police officer), "Excuse me, but how did you know the deceased (or victim). Sir/Ma'am I need you to stay on the line, I will need your full name, your home address, and your home and/or cell phone number."

    "This is Mr. Bigg, how can I be of service?"

    Get creative, they might become too scared to call. Make up a script or learn how to ad-lib.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 06-20-2013 at 07:08 PM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post

    .................Authoritarian voice (think police officer), "Excuse me, but how did you know the deceased (or victim). Sir/Ma'am I need you to stay on the line, I will need your full name, your home address, and your home and/or cell phone number." .....................
    .

    You mean kind of like this?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s898wpcgcJM
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

  16. #16
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    It is a scam, I have had similar calls to my house.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by END_THE_FED View Post
    You mean kind of like this?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s898wpcgcJM
    That was a little over the top but same idea, yes.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  18. #18
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post

    Authoritarian voice (think police officer), "Excuse me, but how did you know the deceased (or victim). Sir/Ma'am I need you to stay on the line, I will need your full name, your home address, and your home and/or cell phone number."
    Impersonation of a peace officer FTW!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger
    ---Always record any calls from/to a collector.
    The OP is in Washington, in WA you may not record a telephone call without consent of both parties on the phone.

    RCW 9.73.030
    Intercepting, recording, or divulging private communication — Consent required — Exceptions.

    (1) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, it shall be unlawful for any individual, partnership, corporation, association, or the state of Washington, its agencies, and political subdivisions to intercept, or record any:

    (a) Private communication transmitted by telephone, telegraph, radio, or other device between two or more individuals between points within or without the state by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record and/or transmit said communication regardless how such device is powered or actuated, without first obtaining the consent of all the participants in the communication;

    (b) Private conversation, by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record or transmit such conversation regardless how the device is powered or actuated without first obtaining the consent of all the persons engaged in the conversation.

    (2) Notwithstanding subsection (1) of this section, wire communications or conversations (a) of an emergency nature, such as the reporting of a fire, medical emergency, crime, or disaster, or (b) which convey threats of extortion, blackmail, bodily harm, or other unlawful requests or demands, or (c) which occur anonymously or repeatedly or at an extremely inconvenient hour, or (d) which relate to communications by a hostage holder or barricaded person as defined in RCW 70.85.100, whether or not conversation ensues, may be recorded with the consent of one party to the conversation.

    (3) Where consent by all parties is needed pursuant to this chapter, consent shall be considered obtained whenever one party has announced to all other parties engaged in the communication or conversation, in any reasonably effective manner, that such communication or conversation is about to be recorded or transmitted: PROVIDED, That if the conversation is to be recorded that said announcement shall also be recorded.

    (4) An employee of any regularly published newspaper, magazine, wire service, radio station, or television station acting in the course of bona fide news gathering duties on a full-time or contractual or part-time basis, shall be deemed to have consent to record and divulge communications or conversations otherwise prohibited by this chapter if the consent is expressly given or if the recording or transmitting device is readily apparent or obvious to the speakers. Withdrawal of the consent after the communication has been made shall not prohibit any such employee of a newspaper, magazine, wire service, or radio or television station from divulging the communication or conversation.
    Now if it is blackmail, extortion, or unlawful demands you may be able to record... but be very careful about this section, if you play the tape recorder and he's acting all legit once that tape starts rolling you're committing a crime... unless you tell them they're being recorded, which guarantees they'll not extort, harass, etc you.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    I record to STOP the bad stuff from happening, not to play gotcha games with the recording.

    Analogously, I OC to STOP the bad stuff from happening, not to play gotcha games with the bad guy.

    When you get such a call in WA, announce that your are recording, and let the guy either hang up or hang himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by March Hare View Post
    Demand documentation for everything.

    - A copy of the signed contract that shows that you are legally obligated to them for the amount owed.
    - Documentation of the amount owed.
    - Any and all attempts to contact you.
    - Copies of any recordings of phone conversations, if any.

    Admit nothing, deny everything and demand proof.

    I'm not a lawyer, but you have the right to see the documentation and if they're legitimate, they'll provide it to you.

    Good luck!

    -MH
    Great information. I would also add. DO NOT have any phone communication whatsoever.
    Contact via USPS only.
    Best Regards.

    CCJ

  21. #21
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    This "Mike Anderson" has contacted me and left me three voicemails, day after day, continually leaving the same message. "This is Mike Anderson from Process Verifications. I am calling to see if someone will be available in the morning to receive legal documents that have come across my desk, and have been marked as red flagged. If no one will be available to pick up these legal documents tomorrow morning, you will need to call the legal offices immediately, at 1-877-300-4842. Looks like there have been two attempts to get the documents out to you, and they were both failed attempts. We will make one third and final attempt to get these documents to you. If you do not receive them, this could lead to an FTA, which is a failure to appear."

    I've gotten three voicemails from this same guy, day after day. There are no "legal documents" at all. This guy is not even announcing himself as a debt collector, either. Yet, when I talked to him, he claimed that I could make a payment to him, even though he's allegedly with a "process serving" company. It doesn't make any sense at all, but I am aware the debt is legit. This seems very... shady and unethical, at the very least.

  22. #22
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    I have dealt with numerous debt collectors in the past and I am not afraid of them.

    In fact, I've actually deal with fewer calls as of recent as a result of me showing up on lists like WebRecon for being very litigous against their kind.

    I would suggest posting your problems at pro-consumer sites like Debtorboards if you are interested more than just dealing with them.

    (Edit: Check this thread out for an example of someone's attack against a collector)
    Last edited by bob888; 06-25-2013 at 02:17 PM. Reason: See above...

  23. #23
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    This "Mike Anderson" has contacted me and left me three voicemails, day after day, continually leaving the same message. "This is Mike Anderson from Process Verifications. I am calling to see if someone will be available in the morning to receive legal documents that have come across my desk, and have been marked as red flagged. If no one will be available to pick up these legal documents tomorrow morning, you will need to call the legal offices immediately, at 1-877-300-4842. Looks like there have been two attempts to get the documents out to you, and they were both failed attempts. We will make one third and final attempt to get these documents to you. If you do not receive them, this could lead to an FTA, which is a failure to appear."
    Tell Mike Anderson to get off his ass and deliver them to you.

    the RCW requires the summons be delivered personally to you or your authorized agent or left at your house with someone of suitable age and discretion if you're not available to take it when they come

    RCW 4.28.080
    Summons, how served.


    Service made in the modes provided in this section is personal service. The summons shall be served by delivering a copy thereof, as follows:

    (15) In all other cases, to the defendant personally, or by leaving a copy of the summons at the house of his or her usual abode with some person of suitable age and discretion then resident therein.

    (16) In lieu of service under subsection (15) of this section, where the person cannot with reasonable diligence be served as described, the summons may be served as provided in this subsection, and shall be deemed complete on the tenth day after the required mailing: By leaving a copy at his or her usual mailing address with a person of suitable age and discretion who is a resident, proprietor, or agent thereof, and by thereafter mailing a copy by first-class mail, postage prepaid, to the person to be served at his or her usual mailing address. For the purposes of this subsection, "usual mailing address" does not include a United States postal service post office box or the person's place of employment.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 06-25-2013 at 03:29 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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