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Thread: What would you do?

  1. #1
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    What would you do?

    Yesterday after work I went to the grocery store to buy a few things for the house before going home. While there, I noticed that the security guard who was on duty was carrying his gun (I didn't get close enough to him to see what kind it was, but it looked like it may have been a Hi Point) in a cross draw position-----with no holster. It was just tucked in the waistband of his pants. And except for a pair of handcuffs hanging out of his back pocket, he had no other duty gear. I wanted so badly to go up to him and explain to him all the things he was doing wrong, but, not wanting to be around in the event of a negligent discharge, I just put everything back and went to another store. My question is, how would you guys have handled this? Have any of you ever seen someone openly carrying like this, or in some other unsafe way that prompted you to speak up? And if you did speak up, what did you say?

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    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    I'd send a note to the grocery store manager or security company. If they are going to arm their guards they need to provide them proper equipment.

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  3. #3
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    How do you know he was a security guard? Was he wearing a uniform?

    And I second the advice to contact the store manager. If he's the one paying for security service he should have a contract setting out in writing what he is supposed to be getting. If he's not getting what he's paying for then the cost of groceries goes up even more than it did when he started paying for security service.

    I have worked armed private security where the company only provided the uniform, the handgun and six bullets. I was responsible for providing the holster and they told me where I could get a 30% discount on a generic nylon one if I mentioned I was working for them. So it is possible that he had everything the company issued him and was too cheap to buy anything on his own dime.

    What a lot of folks do not realize is that when you buy private security you are buying more than just the "security" provided by the presence of the guard. You are buying the reputation of the security company and what they should be doing to enhance your businesses's reputation and positive public image. All of which is nice to know, but should not be part of any conversation with the store manager.

    The store manager should be told that you are considering shopping elsewhere because 1) the public image the armed security guard is providing is a negative one and you value yur safety, and 2) you figure that prices are going to be higher not just because they hired armed security but because you expect most other customers will react the same way and also take their business elsewhere.

    And just to yank on your chain - I would write a better title - maybe "What would you do about sloppy private security at the grocery store?" That way folks are not forced to open the thread just to find out what the heck you are talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Yesterday after work I went to the grocery store to buy a few things for the house before going home. While there, I noticed that the security guard who was on duty was carrying his gun (I didn't get close enough to him to see what kind it was, but it looked like it may have been a Hi Point) in a cross draw position-----with no holster. It was just tucked in the waistband of his pants. And except for a pair of handcuffs hanging out of his back pocket, he had no other duty gear. I wanted so badly to go up to him and explain to him all the things he was doing wrong, but, not wanting to be around in the event of a negligent discharge, I just put everything back and went to another store. My question is, how would you guys have handled this? Have any of you ever seen someone openly carrying like this, or in some other unsafe way that prompted you to speak up? And if you did speak up, what did you say?

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    I would have put everything back and gone to another store.

    Oh, wait, that's what you very wisely did. This guy is a wannabe.

    I'd also contact the store management and say everything to them you said to us.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Odd for a security guard to be carrying a firearm, no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Yesterday after work I went to the grocery store to buy a few things for the house before going home. While there, I noticed that the security guard who was on duty was carrying his gun (I didn't get close enough to him to see what kind it was, but it looked like it may have been a Hi Point) in a cross draw position-----with no holster. It was just tucked in the waistband of his pants. And except for a pair of handcuffs hanging out of his back pocket, he had no other duty gear. I wanted so badly to go up to him and explain to him all the things he was doing wrong, but, not wanting to be around in the event of a negligent discharge, I just put everything back and went to another store. My question is, how would you guys have handled this? Have any of you ever seen someone openly carrying like this, or in some other unsafe way that prompted you to speak up? And if you did speak up, what did you say?

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    Did he have a uniform on? You said the only other duty-gear he had were a pair of cuffs, but a uniform is also part of the duty-gear an officer will wear while on-duty.

    He was carrying a Hi-Point? Any security company that issues a Hi-Point to be carried isn't much of a company to begin with in my opinion. They aren't much of a company if they allow one of their guards to walk around with a pistol tucked into his pants either.

    This seems to me like something someone who wants to appear to be a peace officer would do; they have the gun and the cuffs but no identifying gear to be found.

    Will be interested to hear more details concerning his dress. But, you should definitely notify the store's manager and inform him of the safety issues involved with carrying such a cheap gun with poor safeties the way the guard is, and that it also makes him appear cheap and gangster. He should have his firearm in a holster and his cuffs in a case.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 06-20-2013 at 07:27 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Mind my own business and if I didn't like they way the store and guard were.

    I just go some place else.
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  8. #8
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Mind my own business and if I didn't like they way the store and guard were.

    I just go some place else.
    +1,000!
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    Yes, the guy had on a security badge, button up shirt, and slacks, and his shoulder patch was that of a well-known local security company with numerous accounts. I'd like to know if you guys saw a regular Joe carrying like this, whether he's security or not, if you'd say anything to him.

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    Last edited by tattedupboy; 06-20-2013 at 10:13 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    But, you should definitely notify the store's manager and inform him of the safety issues involved with carrying such a cheap gun with poor safeties the way the guard is, and that it also makes him appear cheap and gangster. He should have his firearm in a holster and his cuffs in a case.
    The Hi Point 9mm pistol is indeed a "cheap gun" (<$200), which is what makes it attractive to those who understand everything about cost and nothing about quality. However, the Hi Point has gotten mixed reviews, running the gamut from "A flaming POS!" to "Built like a tank, 500 rounds with no malfunctions", and everything in between. Notably, the safety was probably the most mentioned as "difficult to operate from the shooting hold" and words to that same effect. Problems have been also been reported with failure to feed, and sights that may or may not get you on paper - even as close as nine feet (one report I read said 9"-10" low at nine feet at maximum adjustment).

    What we are talking about here is purportedly a handgun for defensive purposes. Besides being almost as ugly as the Chiappa Rhino, the fact that they are not consistently reliable would make me wonder about anybody in a job that required them to be armed, using a sidearm with a reputation of even questionable reliability. I had need to visit my local Social Security Administration office today, and the uniformed private security there was armed with Glock pistols in leather holsters, on leather duty belts replete with all the leather LE accessories except tasers. Undoubtedly a FAT government contract, but the company at least had enough class to field professional appearing, and professionally equipped people (I hesitate to call them "officers"). But, your local grocery store probably has a much smaller operating fund than the government. My - Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 06-21-2013 at 02:37 AM. Reason: Typo, of course
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  11. #11
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Please provide some cites that any gun is not reliable, instead rumors. I have heard stories of the tupperware Glock blowing up in the shooters hands, FTF, FTE. And usually the Glunk owners respond with it is the shooters fault, because they do not want to admit that a gun costing 1/3 the cost has a better reputation and better service then a Glunk. And what the hell does the looks have to do with the function of a firearm.

    There will be a HP owner along soon from Arizona to spank you I would guess. I have been reading about Hi Points for a good year, and most of the claims are bull droppings. I have seen them shoot, and they are extremely reliable, durable, and amazingly accurate. So much so, I bought one for the wife to plink with. Just got it, and round after round it goes bang, ejects and feeds without failure. And the groupings, so far out of 100 rounds without a failure with full power loads, one hole in the target off hand at 10 yards. That hole is only three inches in diameter, there is not a glunk around that can do that.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-21-2013 at 06:36 PM.
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    What would you do?

    Between my son and I, we own three Hi-Points. They operate beautifully.

    They're heavy and clunky, but they work. They are a great option for him as he is on a tight budget. Me? I bought one on a lark.

    I also sell them. They have a lifetime warranty. If they don't work well, send 'em back. Hi-Point will fix 'em for ya.

    They are what they are: a budget gun. The world needs a budget gun. Hating on them is snobbery.


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  13. #13
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Between my son and I, we own three Hi-Points. They operate beautifully.

    They're heavy and clunky, but they work. They are a great option for him as he is on a tight budget. Me? I bought one on a lark.

    I also sell them. They have a lifetime warranty. If they don't work well, send 'em back. Hi-Point will fix 'em for ya.

    They are what they are: a budget gun. The world needs a budget gun. Hating on them is snobbery.


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    I bought a CF380 for her, I am so impressed that I will buy a C9, and maybe a HP45 at some point. The gun weighs less than my Star, not much, but still less. It is shorter, in height and length, though thicker. I took it apart, and the safety is as good as a 1911, they both block the sear very well. Though I have other guns, I would have no problem carrying the HP in a good holster. The 380 IMO the round is not optimal for OC when we have more powerful guns. She normally carries my Star Super A. But she is proud of her HP, it IS her gun, I will probably have to get her a C9, or get another Star.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Please provide some cites that any gun is not reliable, instead rumors. I have heard stories of the tupperware Glock blowing up in the shooters hands, FTF, FTE. And usually the Glunk owners respond with it is the shooters fault, because they do not want to admit that a gun costing 1/3 the cost has a better reputation and better service then a Glunk. And what the hell does the looks have to do with the function of a firearm.

    There will be a HP owner along soon from Arizona to spank you I would guess. I have been reading about Hi Points for a good year, and most of the claims are bull droppings. I have seen them shoot, and they are extremely reliable, durable, and amazingly accurate. So much so, I bought one for the wife to plink with. Just got it, and round after round it goes bang, ejects and feeds without failure. And the groupings, so far out of 100 rounds without a failure with full power loads, one hole in the target off hand at 10 yards. That hole is only three inches in diameter, there is not a glunk around that can do that.
    Thank you for sharing your enlightening opinion based upon your personal experience. I simply mentioned some of the reviews I had read. I don't recall personally berating the HP, or referring to it as a brick. I just questioned the wisdom of the "security" guy carrying something with reported inconsistent reliability. I'm not familiar with the "Glunk" brand, so I really can't comment on it. Pax...

    P.S. My HP 995TS carbine works very well also.
    Last edited by Gil223; 06-21-2013 at 06:55 PM. Reason: P.S.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    Thank you for sharing your enlightening opinion based upon your personal experience. I simply mentioned some of the reviews I had read. I don't recall personally berating the HP, or referring to it as a brick. I just questioned the wisdom of the "security" guy carrying something with reported inconsistent reliability. I'm not familiar with the "Glunk" brand, so I really can't comment on it. Pax...
    But where are these verifiable reports?

    Glunk is made by the same people who make Glocks, some say they are identical. I think it came from those people who were accused of limp wristing because their Glunks failed. All rumors though, maybe it is not true that Glock owners have limp wrists.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    I owned a Hi Point and it was a POS. In addition to being ugly and bulky, the magazine on mine would not stay in. I thought that filing down the mag release button would fix the problem, but unfortunately, it didn't. Carrying concealed isn't really carrying concealed when you're checking your sidearm every few minutes to make sure the magazine hasn't fallen out. It shot okay, and the trigger pull was pretty nice, but overall, the gun was more trouble than it was worth.

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  17. #17
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    But where are these verifiable reports?

    Glunk is made by the same people who make Glocks, some say they are identical. I think it came from those people who were accused of limp wristing because their Glunks failed. All rumors though, maybe it is not true that Glock owners have limp wrists.
    If you were truly concerned about "verifiable reports" you would look them up yourself - try Googling "HiPoint reviews" and "HiPoint field tests". "Some people" are also deaf, mute, blind and morons. I do hope you are not deaf, mute and blind as well. My oldest Glock was purchased in 1986, and has never had a failure to function with any of the several thousand (6-7000) rounds I have put through it. Unlike many temperamental handguns, a Glock will eat anything it's fed... except BS. Get back to me when you grow up and are willing to cease being so obviously demeaning. Pax...
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  18. #18
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    I owned a Hi Point and it was a POS. In addition to being ugly and bulky, the magazine on mine would not stay in. I thought that filing down the mag release button would fix the problem, but unfortunately, it didn't. Carrying concealed isn't really carrying concealed when you're checking your sidearm every few minutes to make sure the magazine hasn't fallen out. It shot okay, and the trigger pull was pretty nice, but overall, the gun was more trouble than it was worth.

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    So why would you not use the warranty, it is no questions asked. I find that strange when everybody knows how well HP bends over backwards for their customers. But then Hi Points are such POS, that they are one of the most difficult firearms to find used, and sometimes new. Online gun shops cannot keep them in stock, they are sold minutes after posting. Some sellers are selling them for $50 to 100 above suggested retail. While the LCP is generally selling for below suggested retail. Hmmmmmmmmmm?
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  19. #19
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: What would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    The Hi Point 9mm pistol is indeed a "cheap gun" (<$200), which is what makes it attractive to those who understand everything about cost and nothing about quality. However, the Hi Point has gotten mixed reviews, running the gamut from "A flaming POS!" to "Built like a tank, 500 rounds with no malfunctions", and everything in between. Notably, the safety was probably the most mentioned as "difficult to operate from the shooting hold" and words to that same effect. Problems have been also been reported with failure to feed, and sights that may or may not get you on paper - even as close as nine feet (one report I read said 9"-10" low at nine feet at maximum adjustment).

    What we are talking about here is purportedly a handgun for defensive purposes. Besides being almost as ugly as the Chiappa Rhino, the fact that they are not consistently reliable would make me wonder about anybody in a job that required them to be armed, using a sidearm with a reputation of even questionable reliability. I had need to visit my local Social Security Administration office today, and the uniformed private security there was armed with Glock pistols in leather holsters, on leather duty belts replete with all the leather LE accessories except tasers. Undoubtedly a FAT government contract, but the company at least had enough class to field professional appearing, and professionally equipped people (I hesitate to call them "officers"). But, your local grocery store probably has a much smaller operating fund than the government. My - Pax...
    Well I can only speak from 20+ years of owning pistols from: glocks, FNH, walther, S&W etc...oh & yes hi-point.
    Hi-points are very functional guns. In particular the larger caliber pistols & all of their carbines from my experience. Here's a pic from a recent trip to the range with one in 45acp. There is a huge difference between a affordable firearm & a cheap one. Hi-Points are worth every penny spent on them IMHO.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  20. #20
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: What would you do?

    For the whole story and more info see this thread.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...d.php?t=113790

    P.S. Since those pictures, I picked up a third JHP (45acp). It is as accurate as my other two. They Rival my FNX-45's in accuracy & felt recoil is less.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    So why would you not use the warranty, it is no questions asked. I find that strange when everybody knows how well HP bends over backwards for their customers. But then Hi Points are such POS, that they are one of the most difficult firearms to find used, and sometimes new. Online gun shops cannot keep them in stock, they are sold minutes after posting. Some sellers are selling them for $50 to 100 above suggested retail. While the LCP is generally selling for below suggested retail. Hmmmmmmmmmm?
    I can't speak for other Hi Point owners. I can only speak for myself. Based on my own experience with a Hi Point pistol, I would avoid it like the plague in the future.

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  22. #22
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: What would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    I can't speak for other Hi Point owners. I can only speak for myself. Based on my own experience with a Hi Point pistol, I would avoid it like the plague in the future.

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    Well tater, I think the point wolf was making was you didn't give them (hi-point) a chance to fix your problem. They have been known to send a brand new pistol to customers if there are issues. I sent a 20 year old JS9 9mm in that had a cracked alloy frame (my fault, do to a drop) which caused a seating issue with the mags/misfeeds. So I called them up, told the tech what was going on & he said send it & the mags in for diags. This pistol went out of production many years ago. They replaced everything that they could with warehouse inventory - Frame, barrel, springs, complete firing assembly, ejector, all mags (5) + gave me another mag to cover my shipping. What I got back was a in new condition pistol. Mind you they didn't have to do anything, as it was my fault. It shoots like a top now. . IMHO they have the best customer service in the industry.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I have a hard time believing anybody who makes claims and does not use the Hi Point warranty. The person that sold this man this particular gun has to be a mental midget to say the least, and obviously should not own a gun.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  24. #24
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: What would you do?

    Now that's a sweet deal. Basically a new pistol with two mags for $30! I keep looking for broken HP's, to date no luck. Must mean most people are using the warranty.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  25. #25
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Now that's a sweet deal. Basically a new pistol with two mags for $30! I keep looking for broken HP's, to date no luck. Must mean most people are using the warranty.
    We have the same model, I am so impressed with it. I have been loading and shooting it for three days trying to find the sweet spot. And that is very difficult, because every load the group stays tiny, it rivals my custom 1851 reworked by R&D. A gun that I have a grand into, and worth more, and this inexpensive Hi Point is shooting groups just as good with a barrel that is not even broke in or seasoned yet. With this type of across the board accuracy a person could get into competition shooting for a couple hundred dollars.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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