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What would you do?

tattedupboy

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
518
Location
Gary, Indiana, USA
Yesterday after work I went to the grocery store to buy a few things for the house before going home. While there, I noticed that the security guard who was on duty was carrying his gun (I didn't get close enough to him to see what kind it was, but it looked like it may have been a Hi Point) in a cross draw position-----with no holster. It was just tucked in the waistband of his pants. And except for a pair of handcuffs hanging out of his back pocket, he had no other duty gear. I wanted so badly to go up to him and explain to him all the things he was doing wrong, but, not wanting to be around in the event of a negligent discharge, I just put everything back and went to another store. My question is, how would you guys have handled this? Have any of you ever seen someone openly carrying like this, or in some other unsafe way that prompted you to speak up? And if you did speak up, what did you say?

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skeith5

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
356
Location
United States
I'd send a note to the grocery store manager or security company. If they are going to arm their guards they need to provide them proper equipment.

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skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
How do you know he was a security guard? Was he wearing a uniform?

And I second the advice to contact the store manager. If he's the one paying for security service he should have a contract setting out in writing what he is supposed to be getting. If he's not getting what he's paying for then the cost of groceries goes up even more than it did when he started paying for security service.

I have worked armed private security where the company only provided the uniform, the handgun and six bullets. I was responsible for providing the holster and they told me where I could get a 30% discount on a generic nylon one if I mentioned I was working for them. So it is possible that he had everything the company issued him and was too cheap to buy anything on his own dime.

What a lot of folks do not realize is that when you buy private security you are buying more than just the "security" provided by the presence of the guard. You are buying the reputation of the security company and what they should be doing to enhance your businesses's reputation and positive public image. All of which is nice to know, but should not be part of any conversation with the store manager.

The store manager should be told that you are considering shopping elsewhere because 1) the public image the armed security guard is providing is a negative one and you value yur safety, and 2) you figure that prices are going to be higher not just because they hired armed security but because you expect most other customers will react the same way and also take their business elsewhere.

And just to yank on your chain - I would write a better title - maybe "What would you do about sloppy private security at the grocery store?" That way folks are not forced to open the thread just to find out what the heck you are talking about.

stay safe.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Yesterday after work I went to the grocery store to buy a few things for the house before going home. While there, I noticed that the security guard who was on duty was carrying his gun (I didn't get close enough to him to see what kind it was, but it looked like it may have been a Hi Point) in a cross draw position-----with no holster. It was just tucked in the waistband of his pants. And except for a pair of handcuffs hanging out of his back pocket, he had no other duty gear. I wanted so badly to go up to him and explain to him all the things he was doing wrong, but, not wanting to be around in the event of a negligent discharge, I just put everything back and went to another store. My question is, how would you guys have handled this? Have any of you ever seen someone openly carrying like this, or in some other unsafe way that prompted you to speak up? And if you did speak up, what did you say?

Sent from my A200 using Tapatalk HD

I would have put everything back and gone to another store.

Oh, wait, that's what you very wisely did. This guy is a wannabe.

I'd also contact the store management and say everything to them you said to us.
 

KYGlockster

Activist Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
Yesterday after work I went to the grocery store to buy a few things for the house before going home. While there, I noticed that the security guard who was on duty was carrying his gun (I didn't get close enough to him to see what kind it was, but it looked like it may have been a Hi Point) in a cross draw position-----with no holster. It was just tucked in the waistband of his pants. And except for a pair of handcuffs hanging out of his back pocket, he had no other duty gear. I wanted so badly to go up to him and explain to him all the things he was doing wrong, but, not wanting to be around in the event of a negligent discharge, I just put everything back and went to another store. My question is, how would you guys have handled this? Have any of you ever seen someone openly carrying like this, or in some other unsafe way that prompted you to speak up? And if you did speak up, what did you say?

Sent from my A200 using Tapatalk HD

Did he have a uniform on? You said the only other duty-gear he had were a pair of cuffs, but a uniform is also part of the duty-gear an officer will wear while on-duty.

He was carrying a Hi-Point? Any security company that issues a Hi-Point to be carried isn't much of a company to begin with in my opinion. They aren't much of a company if they allow one of their guards to walk around with a pistol tucked into his pants either.

This seems to me like something someone who wants to appear to be a peace officer would do; they have the gun and the cuffs but no identifying gear to be found.

Will be interested to hear more details concerning his dress. But, you should definitely notify the store's manager and inform him of the safety issues involved with carrying such a cheap gun with poor safeties the way the guard is, and that it also makes him appear cheap and gangster. He should have his firearm in a holster and his cuffs in a case.
 
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tattedupboy

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
518
Location
Gary, Indiana, USA
Yes, the guy had on a security badge, button up shirt, and slacks, and his shoulder patch was that of a well-known local security company with numerous accounts. I'd like to know if you guys saw a regular Joe carrying like this, whether he's security or not, if you'd say anything to him.

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Gil223

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
1,392
Location
Weber County Utah
But, you should definitely notify the store's manager and inform him of the safety issues involved with carrying such a cheap gun with poor safeties the way the guard is, and that it also makes him appear cheap and gangster. He should have his firearm in a holster and his cuffs in a case.
The Hi Point 9mm pistol is indeed a "cheap gun" (<$200), which is what makes it attractive to those who understand everything about cost and nothing about quality. However, the Hi Point has gotten mixed reviews, running the gamut from "A flaming POS!" to "Built like a tank, 500 rounds with no malfunctions", and everything in between. Notably, the safety was probably the most mentioned as "difficult to operate from the shooting hold" and words to that same effect. Problems have been also been reported with failure to feed, and sights that may or may not get you on paper - even as close as nine feet (one report I read said 9"-10" low at nine feet at maximum adjustment).

What we are talking about here is purportedly a handgun for defensive purposes. Besides being almost as ugly as the Chiappa Rhino, the fact that they are not consistently reliable would make me wonder about anybody in a job that required them to be armed, using a sidearm with a reputation of even questionable reliability. I had need to visit my local Social Security Administration office today, and the uniformed private security there was armed with Glock pistols in leather holsters, on leather duty belts replete with all the leather LE accessories except tasers. Undoubtedly a FAT government contract, but the company at least had enough class to field professional appearing, and professionally equipped people (I hesitate to call them "officers"). But, your local grocery store probably has a much smaller operating fund than the government. My - Pax...
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Please provide some cites that any gun is not reliable, instead rumors. I have heard stories of the tupperware Glock blowing up in the shooters hands, FTF, FTE. And usually the Glunk owners respond with it is the shooters fault, because they do not want to admit that a gun costing 1/3 the cost has a better reputation and better service then a Glunk. And what the hell does the looks have to do with the function of a firearm.

There will be a HP owner along soon from Arizona to spank you I would guess. I have been reading about Hi Points for a good year, and most of the claims are bull droppings. I have seen them shoot, and they are extremely reliable, durable, and amazingly accurate. So much so, I bought one for the wife to plink with. Just got it, and round after round it goes bang, ejects and feeds without failure. And the groupings, so far out of 100 rounds without a failure with full power loads, one hole in the target off hand at 10 yards. That hole is only three inches in diameter, there is not a glunk around that can do that.
 
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eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Between my son and I, we own three Hi-Points. They operate beautifully.

They're heavy and clunky, but they work. They are a great option for him as he is on a tight budget. Me? I bought one on a lark.

I also sell them. They have a lifetime warranty. If they don't work well, send 'em back. Hi-Point will fix 'em for ya.

They are what they are: a budget gun. The world needs a budget gun. Hating on them is snobbery.


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<o>
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Between my son and I, we own three Hi-Points. They operate beautifully.

They're heavy and clunky, but they work. They are a great option for him as he is on a tight budget. Me? I bought one on a lark.

I also sell them. They have a lifetime warranty. If they don't work well, send 'em back. Hi-Point will fix 'em for ya.

They are what they are: a budget gun. The world needs a budget gun. Hating on them is snobbery.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

I bought a CF380 for her, I am so impressed that I will buy a C9, and maybe a HP45 at some point. The gun weighs less than my Star, not much, but still less. It is shorter, in height and length, though thicker. I took it apart, and the safety is as good as a 1911, they both block the sear very well. Though I have other guns, I would have no problem carrying the HP in a good holster. The 380 IMO the round is not optimal for OC when we have more powerful guns. She normally carries my Star Super A. But she is proud of her HP, it IS her gun, I will probably have to get her a C9, or get another Star.
 

Gil223

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
1,392
Location
Weber County Utah
Please provide some cites that any gun is not reliable, instead rumors. I have heard stories of the tupperware Glock blowing up in the shooters hands, FTF, FTE. And usually the Glunk owners respond with it is the shooters fault, because they do not want to admit that a gun costing 1/3 the cost has a better reputation and better service then a Glunk. And what the hell does the looks have to do with the function of a firearm.

There will be a HP owner along soon from Arizona to spank you I would guess. I have been reading about Hi Points for a good year, and most of the claims are bull droppings. I have seen them shoot, and they are extremely reliable, durable, and amazingly accurate. So much so, I bought one for the wife to plink with. Just got it, and round after round it goes bang, ejects and feeds without failure. And the groupings, so far out of 100 rounds without a failure with full power loads, one hole in the target off hand at 10 yards. That hole is only three inches in diameter, there is not a glunk around that can do that.
Thank you for sharing your enlightening opinion based upon your personal experience. I simply mentioned some of the reviews I had read. I don't recall personally berating the HP, or referring to it as a brick. I just questioned the wisdom of the "security" guy carrying something with reported inconsistent reliability. I'm not familiar with the "Glunk" brand, so I really can't comment on it. :p Pax...

P.S. My HP 995TS carbine works very well also.
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Thank you for sharing your enlightening opinion based upon your personal experience. I simply mentioned some of the reviews I had read. I don't recall personally berating the HP, or referring to it as a brick. I just questioned the wisdom of the "security" guy carrying something with reported inconsistent reliability. I'm not familiar with the "Glunk" brand, so I really can't comment on it. :p Pax...

But where are these verifiable reports?

Glunk is made by the same people who make Glocks, some say they are identical. I think it came from those people who were accused of limp wristing because their Glunks failed. All rumors though, maybe it is not true that Glock owners have limp wrists.
 

tattedupboy

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
518
Location
Gary, Indiana, USA
I owned a Hi Point and it was a POS. In addition to being ugly and bulky, the magazine on mine would not stay in. I thought that filing down the mag release button would fix the problem, but unfortunately, it didn't. Carrying concealed isn't really carrying concealed when you're checking your sidearm every few minutes to make sure the magazine hasn't fallen out. It shot okay, and the trigger pull was pretty nice, but overall, the gun was more trouble than it was worth.

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Gil223

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
1,392
Location
Weber County Utah
But where are these verifiable reports?

Glunk is made by the same people who make Glocks, some say they are identical. I think it came from those people who were accused of limp wristing because their Glunks failed. All rumors though, maybe it is not true that Glock owners have limp wrists.

If you were truly concerned about "verifiable reports" you would look them up yourself - try Googling "HiPoint reviews" and "HiPoint field tests". "Some people" are also deaf, mute, blind and morons. I do hope you are not deaf, mute and blind as well. My oldest Glock was purchased in 1986, and has never had a failure to function with any of the several thousand (6-7000) rounds I have put through it. Unlike many temperamental handguns, a Glock will eat anything it's fed... except BS. Get back to me when you grow up and are willing to cease being so obviously demeaning. Pax...
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
I owned a Hi Point and it was a POS. In addition to being ugly and bulky, the magazine on mine would not stay in. I thought that filing down the mag release button would fix the problem, but unfortunately, it didn't. Carrying concealed isn't really carrying concealed when you're checking your sidearm every few minutes to make sure the magazine hasn't fallen out. It shot okay, and the trigger pull was pretty nice, but overall, the gun was more trouble than it was worth.

Sent from my A200 using Tapatalk HD

So why would you not use the warranty, it is no questions asked. I find that strange when everybody knows how well HP bends over backwards for their customers. But then Hi Points are such POS, that they are one of the most difficult firearms to find used, and sometimes new. Online gun shops cannot keep them in stock, they are sold minutes after posting. Some sellers are selling them for $50 to 100 above suggested retail. While the LCP is generally selling for below suggested retail. Hmmmmmmmmmm?
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
The Hi Point 9mm pistol is indeed a "cheap gun" (<$200), which is what makes it attractive to those who understand everything about cost and nothing about quality. However, the Hi Point has gotten mixed reviews, running the gamut from "A flaming POS!" to "Built like a tank, 500 rounds with no malfunctions", and everything in between. Notably, the safety was probably the most mentioned as "difficult to operate from the shooting hold" and words to that same effect. Problems have been also been reported with failure to feed, and sights that may or may not get you on paper - even as close as nine feet (one report I read said 9"-10" low at nine feet at maximum adjustment).

What we are talking about here is purportedly a handgun for defensive purposes. Besides being almost as ugly as the Chiappa Rhino, the fact that they are not consistently reliable would make me wonder about anybody in a job that required them to be armed, using a sidearm with a reputation of even questionable reliability. I had need to visit my local Social Security Administration office today, and the uniformed private security there was armed with Glock pistols in leather holsters, on leather duty belts replete with all the leather LE accessories except tasers. Undoubtedly a FAT government contract, but the company at least had enough class to field professional appearing, and professionally equipped people (I hesitate to call them "officers"). But, your local grocery store probably has a much smaller operating fund than the government. My - Pax...

Well I can only speak from 20+ years of owning pistols from: glocks, FNH, walther, S&W etc...oh & yes hi-point.
Hi-points are very functional guns. In particular the larger caliber pistols & all of their carbines from my experience. Here's a pic from a recent trip to the range with one in 45acp. There is a huge difference between a affordable firearm & a cheap one. Hi-Points are worth every penny spent on them IMHO.
 

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