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Thread: NC Attorney General Office Announcing OC in car Illegal

  1. #1
    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    NC Attorney General Office Announcing OC in car Illegal

    Hi All,

    I'm taking a weekend trip to NC. I'm departing here in a few hours from Virginia.

    In researching I understood OC through NC is legal in a vehicle assuming the handgun was in plain sight; usually placed on the seat openly, or on the dashboard. I just called the North Carolina Attorney General's office. I asked for concurrence in the legality of this. The response:

    Me "Good afternoon. I am a Virginia resident who is visiting North Carolina this weekend. I plan on traveling with my firearm for self-defense purposes. I want to ensure I'm within the bounds of the law. Could you or an officer answer a few questions regarding the transport of my firearm through North Carolina?"

    Attorney General Representative "Yes, what are the questions?"

    Me "I understand I can have the firearm clearly visible in the vehicle, such as on the passenger seat. Correct?"

    Attorney General Representative "Do you have a concealed carry permit?"

    Me "No Ma'am."

    Attorney General Representative "Then the gun needs to be locked in the trunk of the vehicle where it is not accessible to the driver and all passengers."

    Me "This is contrary to what I read online. I thought open carry is legal in vehicle within North Carolina? So it is not legal for me to have my handgun on the passenger seat next to me, clearly visible?"

    Attorney General Representative "The officer can not clearly see the firearm on the seat until HE is ON TOP of you, so is illegal."

    Me "So to clarify: Open Carry within a vehicle in North Carolina, is illegal."

    Attorney General Representative "Yes."

    This obviously defeats the purpose of having a firearm as a tool for self-defense in a life threatening situation while driving late at night. Is this a true claim? It is coming directly from the Office of the Attorney General of North Carolina. I'll stick to carrying legally in Virginia and leave the handgun home this weekend.

    Attorney General's Office, North Carolina
    Raleigh, NC
    Telephone: 919-716-6400

  2. #2
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    You got a opinion, unless there are court cases to back it up, it is just a opinion. And that opinion goes against what the attorney general has on their website. There is no law against open carrying in a vehicle, if the gun is not hidden from common view, in this state it is not concealed. I have been stopped for license checks in a commercial vehicle and not one DOT officer has said anything about my gun. And they work for the state.

    In the long run you have to decide for yourself. Some people put the gun on the dash, I don't. When in the car I put the gun belt around the passenger seat for comfort, it does make it more visible. I am not to concerned about needing a firearm while driving especially on the freeways. There are just better options than using a firearm while driving.
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    WW, though I agree 'options...firearm...on the freeway', one does not carry for that specific reason. One carries to be prepared at all times, specifically, for example, when getting out of the car to get gas, going into pay for gas, and so forth.

    To the OP I would print out what the AG said and carry it with you and put your firearm in a secured location, perhaps in holster attached to the passenger seat seatbelt. IMO a loose firearm is a danger (i.e. like putting a brick on your seat) in a collision.

    Good luck!

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    WW, though I agree 'options...firearm...on the freeway', one does not carry for that specific reason. One carries to be prepared at all times, specifically, for example, when getting out of the car to get gas, going into pay for gas, and so forth.

    To the OP I would print out what the AG said and carry it with you and put your firearm in a secured location, perhaps in holster attached to the passenger seat seatbelt. IMO a loose firearm is a danger (i.e. like putting a brick on your seat) in a collision.

    Good luck!
    I agree, I carry for situations outside the vehicle, and that makes it necessary to have in the vehicle. And I agree about a loose firearm, that is why I fasten the belt around the seat. One I guess could fasten a extra holster and belt around the seat, making the firearm more visible and still not having the butt poking into the seat, or the barrel on a larger gun. In the truck it was not a problem for comfort so the gun stayed on my side. Or the OP could have a holster attached to the dash, making it more visible. I just don't worry about it much, odds are he talked to a receptionist answering the phone. Investigators and attorneys are far to busy to mess with such stuff.

    To be honest I just don't worry about it. I did not worry about it even before they passed LEOSA. But the OP still has to decide for himself.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I am clearly confused - they AG's office does not normally (under any circumstance?) answer questions from private parties. The standard response being, "You should consult with an attorney. We do not give legal advice."

    That and the proported advice is seriously erronious.
    Begin here: http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=282

    No law restricting open carry:
    http://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/?p=4132

    Open carry is also legal throughout North Carolina.[18] In the city of Chapel Hill, open carry is restricted to guns of a certain minimum size, under the theory that small, concealable handguns are more often associated with criminal activity. No permit is required to carry a handgun openly in North Carolina.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law...na#NC_Gun_Laws

    Even the antis agree - it's legal: North Carolina permits the open carrying of a long gun or a handgun in a motor vehicle with no license or permit required.
    http://smartgunlaws.org/guns-in-vehi...orth-carolina/

    Quite sure some locals will chime in soon.

    Edited to note: they already have.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-21-2013 at 02:49 PM. Reason: added
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Quite sure some locals will chime in soon. Edited to note: they already have.
    A moderator might modify the misleading thread title. The NC AG's Office announced no such thing. I was amused to hear of an officer hypothetically working in the AG's Office.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    A moderator might modify the misleading thread title. The NC AG's Office announced no such thing. I was amused to hear of an officer hypothetically working in the AG's Office.
    See no reason to do that - it gives people practice on correcting false information. Kinds like determing some people are not who or what they claim to be. Know what I mean?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    By the statement expressed, OC would be illegal if you are right handed and the LEO approached you from the left side. Either somebody was talking out of their butt or this is a troll.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    By the statement expressed, OC would be illegal if you are right handed and the LEO approached you from the left side. Either somebody was talking out of their butt or this is a troll.
    Yep and standing on the other side of a door or wall could really become a major problem

    Have always maintained that it should never depend on where you stand or sit nor where you are physically in respect to the view of others. If one has not covered so as to not be recognizable (hidden) the gun with clothing (on person) or a towel, mat, etc.(off person) then it is OC - can be easily recognized as a gun IF the viewer is in a position to see it. If they are not in such a position, it changes nothing and is still OC.

    Strong side to the wall in a booth, in vehicle w/console, talking over a wooden fence, or standing waist deep in a wheat field does not make it CC.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    In the city of Chapel Hill, open carry is restricted to guns of a certain minimum size, under the theory that small, concealable handguns are more often associated with criminal activity.
    This is seriously goofy. Maybe leave out the 'small' part, but even then. It's a failed attempt to make 'guns' the issue. Perhaps they should start issuing (or testing for) Brains to the legislators everywhere?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    This is seriously goofy. Maybe leave out the 'small' part, but even then. It's a failed attempt to make 'guns' the issue. Perhaps they should start issuing (or testing for) Brains to the legislators everywhere?
    Actually it is part of a NC Supreme court ruling, their contention is the right to bear arms is open carry, and that concealed can be legislated. They also contend that right to bear arms is for military type arms. Even a LCP is not small enough to fall under these size rules, it would have to be derringer size gun. Certainly not a military type weapon.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    The more I think about it the opening post does not sound kosher. Possible, but highly improbable.

    Maybe it is a troll from another board, I have been engaging a few on HPFF. A young lady from WI asked about OC, and I directed her to OCDO, as well as another member. Her thread has turned into a train wreck of OC bashing by a few OC haters, I doubt she will return. Hopefully she took my advice, but have not seen a post yet that I think is her.

    I could though be responsible for some of these loons coming to our site to troll~~I am truly sorry if that is the case. Give me a sec and I will link the thread.

    http://www.hipointfirearmsforums.com...t-time-301852/
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-22-2013 at 10:34 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    No problems personally.

    My wife being from durham, I am in NC quite often, and even lived here for a time. Although I have my ccp I prefer OC and do it regularly in the area (especially after the ruling against the 'inciting terror' loophole some attempted to use). I have never encountered an issue with any officer both on the street or in my car. My experiences could be out of luck, but the general concurrence is oc in a car is as legal as in public. As long as you avoid the university areas you, the most problems you'll have is people stopping you to talk about guns. In those areas, you may get a few trolls, and disgusted looks, and avoiders (which I personally love).

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    i think it is strange too that the OP got any answer at all from the AG. but , for the sake of others, the rules of carry in a car is; in reach, in sight you are OK all the way. out of reach you are OK, covered or not. if it is in reach but out of sight, that is concealed;IE, under the drivers seat, or a passenger too.

    any place a person can reasonably see it is OK. even in your lap.

    i am a person of both VA and NC
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    i think it is strange too that the OP got any answer at all from the AG. but , for the sake of others, the rules of carry in a car is; in reach, in sight you are OK all the way. out of reach you are OK, covered or not. if it is in reach but out of sight, that is concealed;IE, under the drivers seat, or a passenger too.

    any place a person can reasonably see it is OK. even in your lap.

    i am a person of both VA and NC
    Well the alleged phone call is not verifiable is it? And the claim contradicts what we know about the AG giving legal advice to people.

    I would be interested to know what department/division he was transfered to with the quiry and at what date and time. All we know about the responder is that she was female - surprisingly there is no name.

    Heck, I wouldn't accept such information on a verbal from the Govenor - I always ask for confirmation, even if only by email and to include a cite.

    I am disappointed that the OP has not come back to clarify/add to this. It does reflect on his credibility that he has not.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Jamesm760's Avatar
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    The thing is, it does not specify or define "openly visible" (which lets LEOs enforce when ever they want to by using their opinion)

    I got pulled over by highway patrol and I had my sidearm in my holster on my right hip. I informed him when he aproached my car "I don't know if you noticed it already, but I am openly carrying a firearm on my person" he didn't even disarm me. I still got the speeding ticket, but the encounter was very good. I currently carry in a blackhawck sportster that fits well in my center console cup holder... My opinion is that it is clearly visible, but someone else might say it's concealed... o.O
    SIC VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm760 View Post
    The thing is, it does not specify or define "openly visible" (which lets LEOs enforce when ever they want to by using their opinion)

    I got pulled over by highway patrol and I had my sidearm in my holster on my right hip. I informed him when he aproached my car "I don't know if you noticed it already, but I am openly carrying a firearm on my person" he didn't even disarm me. I still got the speeding ticket, but the encounter was very good. I currently carry in a blackhawck sportster that fits well in my center console cup holder... My opinion is that it is clearly visible, but someone else might say it's concealed... o.O
    North Carolina is a 'Must Inform' state IF you have a concealed firearm and if you have a permit. But you were open carrying and NC IS an OC state.

    § 14-415.21. Violations of This Article Punishable As An Infraction.
    (a) A person who has been issued a valid permit who is found to be carrying a concealed handgun without the permit in the person's possession or who fails to disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun, as required by G.S. 14-415.11, shall be guilty of an infraction and shall be punished in accordance with G.S. 14-3.1.
    So, by law, which doesn't appear to address 'informing' if you're open carrying (and you're right the definition of this is important, and could be used against you in a car, in a restaurant where you have your strong side toward the wall, etc.) so you probably had no requirement to tell the officer that.

    Of course officers are notoriously vague on the handgun laws (face palm), so who knows what is the best thing to do. At least you got out of it with a ticket and didn't have to 'take the ride'.

    Two things to point out
    1) Don't speed if you have a firearm. You -never- know when a traffic stop could have fatal consequences for no good reason.
    2) Don't stuff your holster into a cup holder. When you get into a 30mph collision the G-forces are substantial - your firearm WILL go flying.

    Thanks for the post and glad you didn't come to harm.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Jamesm760's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    North Carolina is a 'Must Inform' state IF you have a concealed firearm and if you have a permit. But you were open carrying and NC IS an OC state.



    So, by law, which doesn't appear to address 'informing' if you're open carrying (and you're right the definition of this is important, and could be used against you in a car, in a restaurant where you have your strong side toward the wall, etc.) so you probably had no requirement to tell the officer that.

    Of course officers are notoriously vague on the handgun laws (face palm), so who knows what is the best thing to do. At least you got out of it with a ticket and didn't have to 'take the ride'.

    Two things to point out
    1) Don't speed if you have a firearm. You -never- know when a traffic stop could have fatal consequences for no good reason.
    2) Don't stuff your holster into a cup holder. When you get into a 30mph collision the G-forces are substantial - your firearm WILL go flying.

    Thanks for the post and glad you didn't come to harm.
    It's not illegal to inform the LEO of me open carrying, and although it's not required and some people on this forum don't do it, I carry a voice recorder with me, and there are various situations were the outcome can be me getting shot by the LEO, EX: him saying that he didn't see my firearm (when im OCing) and i reached for it and he shot me because he thought I was going to start shooting at him. By me informing him of the firearm, it is now a known fact that everyone involved knows there is a firearm in the vehicle, so no surprises... and now it's recorded. Scenerios... there are plenty, you can't prevent all of them, but you can only do so much to prevent some. and for the speeding... I didn't even realize I was going 82, -.- I changed lanes thinkin he just wanted to pass me but then he started tail gating....

    Edit: If I get in a collision, my firearm will be the last thing on my mind ... but the cupholder is a temp solution until I find a way to make a permanent holster that will allow a quick draw somewhere on top of the dash... IDK, im brainstorming right now... I need to get some ideas off of youtube or something.
    Last edited by Jamesm760; 06-23-2013 at 09:33 PM.
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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm760 View Post
    It's not illegal to inform the LEO of me open carrying, and although it's not required and some people on this forum don't do it, I carry a voice recorder with me, and there are various situations were the outcome can be me getting shot by the LEO, EX: him saying that he didn't see my firearm (when im OCing) and i reached for it and he shot me because he thought I was going to start shooting at him. By me informing him of the firearm, it is now a known fact that everyone involved knows there is a firearm in the vehicle, so no surprises... and now it's recorded. Scenerios... there are plenty, you can't prevent all of them, but you can only do so much to prevent some. and for the speeding... I didn't even realize I was going 82, -.- I changed lanes thinkin he just wanted to pass me but then he started tail gating....

    Edit: If I get in a collision, my firearm will be the last thing on my mind ... but the cupholder is a temp solution until I find a way to make a permanent holster that will allow a quick draw somewhere on top of the dash... IDK, im brainstorming right now... I need to get some ideas off of youtube or something.
    If that holster is what I think it is, can't you just take it apart and screw it to the dash (or anywhere else) directly?
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Regular Member Jamesm760's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    If that holster is what I think it is, can't you just take it apart and screw it to the dash (or anywhere else) directly?
    I think you might be talkin about the serpas... yea you can easily screw it on somewhere in the car. I currently have 2 holsters, the serpa (when i'm off work and I can wear the holster all day) and the sportster which has the belt clip (when I work and have to be constantly taking off the holster and putting it back on.) but yea I think I might just get another serpa and screw it somewhere on the dash. I will try to invent something... I will post pics when I finally do something.
    Last edited by Jamesm760; 06-25-2013 at 04:55 AM.
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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    NC Attorney General Office Announcing OC in car Illegal

    I stand by my account of the conversation.

    Yes, it's taken me a while to respond, and I do not have a fraction of the number of posts as you Grapeshot, but look at the other posts that I did post on this forum.

    I'm relatively new to the OC community. I became interested in firearm laws, and exercising 2A about a year ago as a political focus on our right to bear arms became a prominent topic. I'm now an NRA member, proud owner of several firearms, and look forward to further discussion with you all.

    I posted the conversation on this forum immediately after the phone call because of its absurdity.
    I want to keep our founding fathers' visions and rights for this country pure. I implore you to do the same.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrusly View Post
    I stand by my account of the conversation.

    Yes, it's taken me a while to respond, and I do not have a fraction of the number of posts as you Grapeshot, but look at the other posts that I did post on this forum.

    I'm relatively new to the OC community. I became interested in firearm laws, and exercising 2A about a year ago as a political focus on our right to bear arms became a prominent topic. I'm now an NRA member, proud owner of several firearms, and look forward to further discussion with you all.

    I posted the conversation on this forum immediately after the phone call because of its absurdity.
    Well we do all put our pants on the same way - have the same expectation that what we say will be judged on its merits.

    The real depth of the problem lies in the title claim that the AG "office" announced anything related to OC in a car/vehicle. It just ain't so. Had your title and the related post indicated that a false claim had been made by a low level employee, then I doubt anyone would have taken exception to the story, though they might well have encouraged you to file a complaint - I stand in both of those camps.

    First the "office" never makes "announcements." Whomever you spoke to would be subject to reprimand for having offered those thoughts to you.

    Second and of primary importance is that when an official AG opinion is issued, it is always done in writing.

    Third and almost equally important is that the AG never gives legal advice directly (you would be told to seek the advice of a private attorney) and never responds formally to a request for an opinion from citizens of the state. Requests are made by members of the 3 branches of the state government and state agencies. The AG is the attorney for the state - in fact if you challanged the legality of a state statute in court via a suit, you would face him as the defense attorney (state's attorney).

    A belated welcome to the forum cirrusly. Knowledge is power - collect as much of it as you can and use it responsibily.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 08-07-2013 at 08:38 AM.
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The more I think about it the opening post does not sound kosher. Possible, but highly improbable.

    Maybe it is a troll from another board, I have been engaging a few on HPFF. A young lady from WI asked about OC, and I directed her to OCDO, as well as another member. Her thread has turned into a train wreck of OC bashing by a few OC haters, I doubt she will return. Hopefully she took my advice, but have not seen a post yet that I think is her.

    I could though be responsible for some of these loons coming to our site to troll~~I am truly sorry if that is the case. Give me a sec and I will link the thread.

    http://www.hipointfirearmsforums.com...t-time-301852/
    I left HPFF in august 2011 when it was bought out by money hungry corporate a-holes.

  24. #24
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Well, a AG minion has spoken, it seems. Do we need to discuss what the visiting citizen should do if his vehicle does not have a trunk? Call that AG minion back and ask for clarification.

  25. #25
    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    NC Attorney General Office Announcing OC in car Illegal

    In this case I ended up leaving the firearms at home. I was going for a guys weekend in which there was heavy drinking. And regardless of the law it's my personal standard that I won't have as much as a beer if I'm carrying for defense.

    Conversely- I don't condemn those who want to legally OC and have a beer. (Which IS legal here in VA).
    I want to keep our founding fathers' visions and rights for this country pure. I implore you to do the same.

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