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Thread: Nevada - does gun ban sign in bar have force of law?

  1. #1
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    Nevada - does gun ban sign in bar have force of law?

    If there is a no gun sign on a bar and you don't drink, can you carry concealed?


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    Did I get this correct?

    With my understanding, yes with a CCW permit. In my mind, concealed is concealed. But you may want to check the laws so you will know for sure. This is just my 2 cents worth. Happy OC'ing.


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    Last edited by Paver1055; 06-23-2013 at 10:24 AM.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Best to always read the law and not rely on what is posted on Internet forums.

    ARS 4-229

    When there is no gun-buster sign, ONLY those with CCW permits who are ONLY carrying discreetly ("concealed") may enter and they may not consume alcohol.

    Fred

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Did I get this correct?

    THIS^^^! +1 Also be very careful, some private business owners place tiny little signs/stickers that no one who is not looking would ever see. One local eatery placed their no weapons sign roughly 9 feet up on a wall near their liquor license near a greeters station where your attention will be focused on the greeters & not the wall behind them in a busy isle-way So keep your eyes open... as it is on you to know who the gunbusters are in AZ.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 06-23-2013 at 01:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisacksen View Post
    If there is a no gun sign on a bar and you don't drink, can you carry concealed?


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    Question:

    Was this supposed to be NO sign prohibiting guns OR a "NO GUN" sign?
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    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Did I get this correct?

    No gun sign.


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    Did I get this correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    THIS^^^! +1 Also be very careful, some private business owners place tiny little signs/stickers that no one who is not looking would ever see. One local eatery placed their no weapons sign roughly 9 feet up on a wall near their liquor license near a greeters station where your attention will be focused on the greeters & not the wall behind them in a busy isle-way So keep your eyes open... as it is on you to know who the gunbusters are in AZ.
    What place are you referring to, Costco?


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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by culdesac View Post
    What place are you referring to, Costco?
    Costco does not serve alcohol for consumption on the premises.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Did I get this correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by culdesac View Post
    What place are you referring to, Costco?


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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Costco does not serve alcohol for consumption on the premises.
    Thanks Mac.

    The yard house rest. in N. Scottsdale for the NBA height sign & no posted exterior door signs. Nice to meet you. How you doing? What's it like in your area? One thing about the net, it makes for poor human interaction/communication.
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    Regular Member arizonaopa's Avatar
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    ARS 4-229 reads as follows

    Arizona has passed “Permitless Carry.” That means anyone who can legally own/purchase a firearm and is
    21 or older can carry it concealed without any type of permit/license. This new law becomes effective July
    29, 2010. Those who wish to carry in Arizona without a permit/license from AZ or any other state can not
    carry in the places listed in the “Places Off Limits Even With a Permit’ section below. Arizona did not
    remove other restrictions in their law when they passed Permitless Carry. If you choose to carry without a
    permit from Arizona or any other state you must also abide by the following restriction.
    4-229. Licenses; Handguns; Posting of Notice
    A. A person with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112 may carry a concealed handgun on the
    premises of a licensee who is an on-sale retailer unless the licensee posts a sign that clearly prohibits
    the possession of weapons on the licensed premises. The sign shall conform to the following
    requirements:
    1. Be posted in a conspicuous location accessible to the general public and immediately adjacent to the
    liquor license posted on the licensed premises.
    2. Contain a pictogram that shows a firearm within a red circle and a diagonal red line across the firearm.
    3. Contain the words, "no firearms allowed pursuant to A.R.S. section 4-229".
    B. A person shall not carry a firearm on the licensed premises of an on-sale retailer if the licensee has posted
    the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section.
    C. It is an affirmative defense to a violation of subsection B of this section if:

    1. The person was not informed of the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section before the
    violation.
    2. Any one or more of the following apply:
    (a) At the time of the violation the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section had fallen down.
    (b) At the time of the violation the person was not a resident of this state.
    (c) The licensee had posted the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section not more than thirty
    days before the violation.
    D. The department of liquor licenses and control shall prepare the signs required by this section and make
    them available at no cost to licensees.

    In other words, if you have a concealed permit, you can carry into an alcohol serving establishment. Otherwise, stay out. However, the establishment needs to have the proper sign posted. If a bar owner is not using the correct sign and just has a handwritten or printed note, leave the bar alone since they are obviously anti and want you to get in trouble for exercising your rights,

  11. #11
    Regular Member Pikachu712's Avatar
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    Arizona CCW/OC Law

    Quote Originally Posted by arizonaopa View Post
    ARS 4-229 reads as follows

    Arizona has passed “Permitless Carry.” That means anyone who can legally own/purchase a firearm and is
    21 or older can carry it concealed without any type of permit/license. This new law becomes effective July
    29, 2010. Those who wish to carry in Arizona without a permit/license from AZ or any other state can not
    carry in the places listed in the “Places Off Limits Even With a Permit’ section below. Arizona did not
    remove other restrictions in their law when they passed Permitless Carry. If you choose to carry without a
    permit from Arizona or any other state you must also abide by the following restriction.
    4-229. Licenses; Handguns; Posting of Notice
    A. A person with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112 may carry a concealed handgun on the
    premises of a licensee who is an on-sale retailer unless the licensee posts a sign that clearly prohibits
    the possession of weapons on the licensed premises. The sign shall conform to the following
    requirements:
    1. Be posted in a conspicuous location accessible to the general public and immediately adjacent to the
    liquor license posted on the licensed premises.
    2. Contain a pictogram that shows a firearm within a red circle and a diagonal red line across the firearm.
    3. Contain the words, "no firearms allowed pursuant to A.R.S. section 4-229".
    B. A person shall not carry a firearm on the licensed premises of an on-sale retailer if the licensee has posted
    the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section.
    C. It is an affirmative defense to a violation of subsection B of this section if:

    1. The person was not informed of the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section before the
    violation.
    2. Any one or more of the following apply:
    (a) At the time of the violation the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section had fallen down.
    (b) At the time of the violation the person was not a resident of this state.
    (c) The licensee had posted the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section not more than thirty
    days before the violation.
    D. The department of liquor licenses and control shall prepare the signs required by this section and make
    them available at no cost to licensees.

    In other words, if you have a CCW permit, you can carry into an alcohol sales establishment. Otherwise, stay out. However, the establishment needs to have the proper sign posted. If a bar owner is not using the correct sign and just has a handwritten or printed note, leave the bar alone since they are obviously anti and want you to get in trouble for exercising your rights,
    Thanks for the clarification on where & where not to carry a concealed firearm. I'm considering a move to AZ in the near future and am considering the impact of the laws that will affect me.

    I currently live in Las Vegas, NV and hold a NV CCW permit. As I understand the law open/concealed carry is legal with or without a CCW permit in AZ. The major issue I was concerned about is the part of the law that has to do with retail outlets that sell/serve alcohol. From what I understand you are permitted to enter a business that sells/serves alcohol but cannot CONSUME it without a valid CCW permit. Here in Nevada you can open/conceal carry and consume alcohol up to the legal limit of the law. In AZ you cannot consume alcohol whatsoever. This is something I'll have to remember once I move to AZ. As a general rule I don't drink alcohol when I carry, but I'm sure some do to some degree.

    I'm still not entirely sure if I want to get an AZ CCW permit but it's something I'm considering in the future. Getting an AZ permit will not really give me any additional coverage so I will most likely my NV permit valid. I may acquire a UT permit for some additional coverage but that's something I don't really need at this time.

    By the way, I've been a "lurker" for some time now but do enjoy reading the postings on OCDO very much. It's very informative on OC issues.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikachu712 View Post
    ... From what I understand you are permitted to enter a business that sells/serves alcohol but cannot CONSUME it without a valid CCW permit...
    And you MUST conceal. You can't OC in those places.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Thanks Mac.

    The yard house rest. in N. Scottsdale for the NBA height sign & no posted exterior door signs. Nice to meet you. How you doing? What's it like in your area? One thing about the net, it makes for poor human interaction/communication.
    I don't remember this response, but I see it now that the thread got bumped. Yes, you are correct about the sometimes poor effect from the terseness of Internet postings. I probably do worse than most!

    The Yard House' corporate (Darden Restaurants owns them and Red Lobster and some others) policy is to allow firearms possession to the extent allowed by law. I like the Yard House. Nay! I LOVE the Yard House.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I don't remember this response, but I see it now that the thread got bumped. Yes, you are correct about the sometimes poor effect from the terseness of Internet postings. I probably do worse than most!

    The Yard House' corporate (Darden Restaurants owns them and Red Lobster and some others) policy is to allow firearms possession to the extent allowed by law. I like the Yard House. Nay! I LOVE the Yard House.
    Thanks again Mac. I too really like them as does my wife. We haven't been in over a year because of the stupid sign. Now that I know it's not in compliance with corporate policy I will be contacting Darden to see if they can get their employees up to speed & the sign removed. :thumbup:
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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikachu712 View Post
    The major issue I was concerned about is the part of the law that has to do with retail outlets that sell/serve alcohol. From what I understand you are permitted to enter a business that sells/serves alcohol but cannot CONSUME it without a valid CCW permit.
    Adding to the other comments....

    The alcohol and guns statutes only apply to places that serve alcohol for consumption. They don't apply to retail sales of unopened booze.

    To carry where alcohol is served for consumption:

    1. The business must NOT post a "no firearms" sign.
    2. You MUST have a CCW permit.
    3. You MUST carry discreetly (i.e., "concealed" in the language of the anti-rights bigots)
    4. You may NOT consume alcohol.
    5. Violation is misdemeanor.

    The law is ARS 4-229

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 12-22-2013 at 11:52 AM.

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    Regular Member Pikachu712's Avatar
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    CCW & Alcohol Retailers

    Thanks for the clarification on the AZ laws on CCW & retailers of alcohol products. I planning on moving to AZ in the first few months of 2014.

    I like the aspect that they do allow entering stores that sell alcohol. I will in all likelihood be applying for an AZ permit regardless. Since I'm going to be a resident of the state why the heck not? It won't give my any additional coverage but I can add it to my collection of permits. I'm a currently holder of a NV permit which I have to renew in March of 2014. While I'm renewing my NV permit I might as well get my UT permit as well. If it's only a minor issue to acquire it I might as well get it anyway.

    Thanks again for the information!
    Last edited by Pikachu712; 12-24-2013 at 12:04 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    This is in the AZ forum, and we've been discussing AZ laws, but I just noticed the OP's subject line asks about NV.

    Just to make sure, everything we've talked about has been for AZ.

    In NV, signs never have force of law. And there is no restriction against drinking while armed, with a limit on possession at 0.10% BAC.

    There are even several OC-friendly bars.
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  18. #18
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikachu712 View Post
    I'm a currently holder of a NV permit
    That alone qualifies you for an Arizona permit.

    Fred

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Just to make sure, everything we've talked about has been for AZ. In NV, signs never have force of law. And there is no restriction against drinking while armed, with a limit on possession at 0.10% BAC.
    Arizona's Restaurant Carry law definitely needs improving.

    it's unlikely to happen in 2014. Bloomberg and Soros money has been pouring into Arizona for a couple of years now and with our other great gun laws, Arizona is the grand prize for the anti-rights bigots. In 2013 we saw more bills filed to strip away all your rights than to protect them. We expect an even harder push in 2014.

    Not being involved, or expecting "other guy" to do the work is the same as supporting the enemy.

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    [QUOTE=Pikachu712;2017941]



    I'm still not entirely sure if I want to get an AZ CCW permit but it's something I'm considering in the future. Getting an AZ permit will not really give me any additional coverage so I will most likely my NV permit valid. I may acquire a UT permit for some additional coverage but that's something I don't really need at this time.



    In some cases you must have a permit CPL, CCW in your home state to get a Utah permit.

    If you reside in a state that recognizes the validity of the Utah
    CFP or has reciprocity with Utah, you must obtain a CFP or
    CCW from your home state and submit a copy of it with your
    application for a Utah permit. For a list of reciprocal states
    visit: http://www.publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/FAQother.html
    Residency will be determined by your state-issued
    identification. If your state does not recognize the Utah
    permit this does not apply.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

  21. #21
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Jeff Hayes;2018965]
    Quote Originally Posted by Pikachu712 View Post
    I'm still not entirely sure if I want to get an AZ CCW permit
    Even though there is nothing specifically in the law that says you must have an AZ CCW permit if you live here, odds are if you are in a situation where a permit is required (e.g., dining where alcohol is served) and you whip out your Nevada permit and Arizona Driver's License, you may spend some time on attorney and court costs to prove your point.

    Your Nevada permit is all you need to get an Arizona permit plus $65 and the cost of fingerprints. It's a cheap insurance policy.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 12-26-2013 at 06:00 PM.

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