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Thread: tulsa parks deny carry. civil disobedience?

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    tulsa parks deny carry. civil disobedience?

    http://www.roemermanonrecord.com/201...earms-may.html

    The Tulsa city law is in clear violation of State Law that is superior. Their will be a person that will continue to carry in parks whether it is Federal/State/Local and they will be fighting in court to uphold their liberties, when that happens I and hopefully others will rally around their cause. Parks are public land set aside for EVERYONES enjoyment. Carry holders are scrutinized by the law to protect themselves and others, we should be able to enjoy areas as everyone else does while protecting ourselves and OTHERS!! Federal and State legislatures have recognized this and respect it but the Tulsa city council and Tulsa Mayor need to review the bill of rights.

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    Tulsa City Attorney Agrees to Take Down “No Gun” Signs

    In phone conversations yesterday with Don Spencer, our Director of Policy, and Grant Chapman, our Deputy Director of Policy, Tulsa City Attorney Dave O’Meilia, agreed that the “no gun” signs in the Tulsa city parks are in violation of state law. Title 21, Section 1277 states: “The prohibited place does not include and specifically excludes the following property…Any property designated by a city, town, county, or state, governmental authority as a park, recreational area, or fairgrounds…” Currently, Mr. O’Meilia is working to cover the signs with the intent to eventually have them removed.

    We encourage gun owners to contact their city councilmen and the mayor on this issue and urge them to bring their ordinances into compliance with state law so that this issue doesn’t resurface at some point in the future.


    https://ok2anews.wordpress.com/2013/...-no-gun-signs/

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    Regular Member Elm Creek Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney View Post
    We encourage gun owners to contact their city councilmen and the mayor on this issue and urge them to bring their ordinances into compliance with state law so that this issue doesn’t resurface at some point in the future.
    I work in Tulsa, but I live out in the county. I figure I'll print off a copy of the SDA and keep it on me if I go to a city park since the outdated ordinance hasn't been repealed and I'm not going unarmed.

    ECS
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    Great news! I love to frequent Tulsa parks for exercise with my dog. I was worried that the Tulsa Mayor election might sweep this thing under the rug due to the race.

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    Regular Member Elm Creek Smith's Avatar
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    Re: tulsa parks deny carry. civil disobedience?

    Stay safe.

    ECS

    Sent from my little slice of Heaven.
    Last edited by Elm Creek Smith; 08-15-2013 at 01:01 AM.
    "If the truth hurts, it should." - Dad

    " A year from now, ten, they'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more running. I aim to misbehave." - Malcolm Reynolds, Serenity

    "The cheaper the crook, the gaudier the patter." - Sam Spade, The Maltese Falcon

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    Question spotted today

    Quote Originally Posted by Elm Creek Smith View Post
    I work in Tulsa, but I live out in the county. I figure I'll print off a copy of the SDA and keep it on me if I go to a city park since the outdated ordinance hasn't been repealed and I'm not going unarmed.
    ECS
    Over at Veteran's park for the MS walk this morning, wife says she saw a sign there I didn't spot. Under jacket for today...
    Furthermore, in past at Braden in E midtown area. Couldn't go back to check Vet/River park area today but I'll check others in this area.
    Can we get reports from other areas around town?

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    Regular Member okiephlyer's Avatar
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    I have biked and walked miles and miles on River Parks trails, OC, and never had a problem. Also OC'd at LaFortune one day during spring break with lots of people, large and small, and nobody said a word. Parks are OK by state statute, and the signs have not all been updated, so carry away.

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    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    The city of moore is now posting the outdated ordinances even in brand new parks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock 1st fan View Post
    The city of moore is now posting the outdated ordinances even in brand new parks
    Eh??? Which park would this be at. I haven't seen any of these at any of the parks I have been to.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    Eh??? Which park would this be at. I haven't seen any of these at any of the parks I have been to.
    12th and janeway. Walk to the picnic area by the water park

    http://www.cityofmoore.com/city-moore-park-rules section 7
    Last edited by Glock 1st fan; 04-14-2014 at 09:24 PM.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock 1st fan View Post
    The city of moore is now posting the outdated ordinances even in brand new parks
    waste of time and money. Of course you disobey a non-law. To obey it is to accept the person had the right to make the law and clearly these 'ordinances' are both a violation of state and federal law.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    waste of time and money. Of course you disobey a non-law. To obey it is to accept the person had the right to make the law and clearly these 'ordinances' are both a violation of state and federal law.
    Of course. I thought of posing open next to the sign for a photo

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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    waste of time and money. Of course you disobey a non-law. To obey it is to accept the person had the right to make the law and clearly these 'ordinances' are both a violation of state and federal law.
    I don't think obedience to non-laws is our issue on this thread. We'd like local authorities to become educated, and remove the public scarring signs.

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    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    Eh??? Which park would this be at. I haven't seen any of these at any of the parks I have been to.
    405-793-5000 Randy Brink is the city attorney I was refered too

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock 1st fan View Post
    12th and janeway. Walk to the picnic area by the water park

    http://www.cityofmoore.com/city-moore-park-rules section 7
    I drive by that park just about every day and stopped and saw that sign yesterday. Will be contacting parks and recreation as well as my city councilman about this issue.

    Section 7 of the park rules give them an out...."unless authorized by city council" and then references 2 parts of city code. The important one it references in 10-407. 10-407 section A reads: "A person is permitted to carry firearms open and unconcealed only as may be authorized by state law." Although confusing, the printed rules do provide that people can carry firearms as allowed by state law, and the city council has approved that, therefore you can carry under the printed rules, but the sign at the park is a different matter.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    I drive by that park just about every day and stopped and saw that sign yesterday. Will be contacting parks and recreation as well as my city councilman about this issue.

    Section 7 of the park rules give them an out...."unless authorized by city council" and then references 2 parts of city code. The important one it references in 10-407. 10-407 section A reads: "A person is permitted to carry firearms open and unconcealed only as may be authorized by state law." Although confusing, the printed rules do provide that people can carry firearms as allowed by state law, and the city council has approved that, therefore you can carry under the printed rules, but the sign at the park is a different matter.
    Agreed. I myself am not familiar with city ordinances in Moore which underlines the bigger picture. Those who know the sda and the city ordinances obviously know they are legaly able to carry in the park but to people who aren't up to date with the law could be led to believe they are illegal.

    Thus and people who do not support the 2A may be inclined to call 911 which would tie up valuable resources and put both the police and the carrier in an awkward position that could result in embarrasement and or legal issues.

    Signage is very important to be correct because no city needs to be sued over someone getting detained or humiliated for doing nothing more then obeying the law
    Last edited by Glock 1st fan; 04-15-2014 at 10:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock 1st fan View Post
    Agreed. I myself am not familiar with city ordinances in Moore which underlines the bigger picture. Those who know the sda and the city ordinances obviously know they are legaly able to carry in the park but to people who aren't up to date with the law could be led to believe they are illegal.

    Thus and people who do not support the 2A may be inclined to call 911 which would tie up valuable resources and put both the police and the carrier in an awkward position that could result in embarrasement and or legal issues.

    Signage is very important to be correct because no city needs to be sued over someone getting detained or humiliated for doing nothing more then obeying the law
    Agreed.

    I sent email to the city manager and director of parks and recreation. Provided links to state preemption, and to where it says parks are specifically exempt from being prohibited places. Asked that this be removed and not included on future signs. Pointed out this could cause confusion and a lawsuit if enforced, and that the resulting lawsuit could be against any person, municipality, and political subdivision who violated the state preemption.

    No response yet, not even a "we'll look into it". We will see what comes of it.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    [QUOTE=hrdware;2052788]Agreed.

    I sent email to the city manager and director of parks and recreation..."

    I guess I should do that for Tulsa. We were at Braden and the sign still had it but today at Woodward that section was obviously removed from the same sign.

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    Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    Agreed.

    I sent email to the city manager and director of parks and recreation. Provided links to state preemption, and to where it says parks are specifically exempt from being prohibited places. Asked that this be removed and not included on future signs. Pointed out this could cause confusion and a lawsuit if enforced, and that the resulting lawsuit could be against any person, municipality, and political subdivision who violated the state preemption.

    No response yet, not even a "we'll look into it". We will see what comes of it.
    Just curious, have you gotten any kind of response yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gconder View Post
    Just curious, have you gotten any kind of response yet?
    Not yet. Planning on calling them next week and verify they received the emails and see what they have to say about it. Next city council meeting isn't until May 5, so may not hear anything until after that anyway.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Thumbs up Tulsa To Allow Guns In Parks

    Tulsa To Allow Guns In Parks
    Posted: Apr 25, 2014
    http://www.ktul.com/story/25346638/t...-guns-in-parks

    "City of Tulsa we do not desire to have stricter gun restrictions than what state law allows," said Jarred Brejcha, of Mayor Bartlett's administration.
    State law says it's ok to have guns in parks, so the city will soon be erasing it's current ordinance that keeps them out.

    The Mayor's office apparently is missing the fact they cannot legally restricted our rights... but I'll take it as a win anyway!

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    Wink Guns allowed in Tulsa parks

    http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/...a-parks/nfh2h/
    Love the opening line here:
    "It's Oklahoma’s law, we have to follow it..."

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    Regular Member Elm Creek Smith's Avatar
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    Tulsa City Council amended City Ordinances last night - 05/01/2014

    The Tulsa City Council made the following changes to City Ordinances at last night's City Council Meeting:

    "7. ORDINANCES - SECOND READING
    a. Ordinance amending Title 8, TRO Section 202, Civil Emergency – Powers of Mayor, repealing subsections G & H dealing with the Mayor’s authority to take actions banning the selling or transferring firearms and ammunition and closing businesses which sell or transfer firearms. (Emergency Clause) [PW 4/24/14] 14-364-1"

    "7. ORDINANCES - SECOND READING
    b. Ordinance amending Title 27, Chapter 15, TRO, entitled “Weapons,” amending the citation of the Oklahoma statute cited in sub-sections (1) and (3) of Section 1514, and in Section 1515. (Emergency Clause) [UED 4/24/14] 97-1007-3"

    "7. ORDINANCES - SECOND READING
    c. Ordinance amending Title 26, Tulsa Revised Ordinances, Titled “Parks, Mall and Plaza,” amending Chapter 1, Section 103, Sub-Section Q and Chapter 3, Setion 303, Sub-Section Q; by removing the city’s ordinance regulating or carrying firearms in parks, recreation areas and other facilities. (Emergency Clause) [UED 4/24/14] 13-188-2"

    What this means is that the Mayor no longer has the power to ban the sales or transfers of firearms or to close businesses which sells or transfers firearms during civil emergencies (riots, etc.) Bet you didn't even know that was there, didja?

    It also corrects the Oklahoma State Statutes reference in the City Ordinances to reflect current state law.

    Finally, it removes the wording from City Ordinances relating to restricting the carrying handguns, either concealed or openly, in city parks, recreation areas, and other facilities in order to bring those ordinances into line with current state law. Also, the "Emergency Clause" means that they are effective immediately.

    This is good news, guys and girls! So, when you see signs in the parks that haven't been corrected, ignore them.
    Last edited by Elm Creek Smith; 05-02-2014 at 08:56 AM.
    "If the truth hurts, it should." - Dad

    " A year from now, ten, they'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more running. I aim to misbehave." - Malcolm Reynolds, Serenity

    "The cheaper the crook, the gaudier the patter." - Sam Spade, The Maltese Falcon

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Place local LE on notice that enforcement of a unlawful city code will be grounds for criminal prosecution and civil liability. Reference the state law that supports your contention. Copies to your local elected officials so that they too know that LE is informed.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    I would love to have an oc get together at the park in moore. Id love to see the look on their faces

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