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Thread: There is no loophole, there is no loophole, there is no loophole...back to the beginn

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    There is no loophole, there is no loophole, there is no loophole...back to the beginn

    Lunch meeting today and the Waitress told me the fellow at the counter had a question. I was wearing my Glock so I wondered why he thought someone so poorly armed could answer his questions.

    Yep...what can I do for you?

    What's the waiting time to get a gun?

    There is no waiting period in Va.

    That's only at Gunshows though, right?

    There isn't any difference between buying from a dealer at a gunshow and going to his shop.

    Oh...I'm from California and come to Va for a few days a year. I want to buy one.

    Then wait till you get home and buy one.

    Why?

    Because you're not a resident.

    But I can buy one at a Gunshow can't I?

    No...there is NO loohole. You can buy it and have it shipped to an FFL in California where he'll comply with California law.

    Can I buy one from an individual?

    You can but it's a major crime and if you get caught, they'll put you in a cell with a 6.8 homosexual named Bubba!

    If I buy it from an individual at a gunshow....it's legal then isn't it?

    There is no Loophole, there is no loophole, there is no loophole. Did you catch the part where there is NO GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE.

    End of discussion.

    You Know, I think that fellow might have been a Bloomie!

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Lunch meeting today and the Waitress told me the fellow at the counter had a question. I was wearing my Glock so I wondered why he thought someone so poorly armed could answer his questions.

    Yep...what can I do for you?

    What's the waiting time to get a gun?

    There is no waiting period in Va.

    That's only at Gunshows though, right?

    There isn't any difference between buying from a dealer at a gunshow and going to his shop.

    Oh...I'm from California and come to Va for a few days a year. I want to buy one.

    Then wait till you get home and buy one.

    Why?

    Because you're not a resident.

    But I can buy one at a Gunshow can't I?

    No...there is NO loohole. You can buy it and have it shipped to an FFL in California where he'll comply with California law.

    Can I buy one from an individual?

    You can but it's a major crime and if you get caught, they'll put you in a cell with a 6.8 homosexual named Bubba!

    If I buy it from an individual at a gunshow....it's legal then isn't it?

    There is no Loophole, there is no loophole, there is no loophole. Did you catch the part where there is NO GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE.

    End of discussion.

    You Know, I think that fellow might have been a Bloomie!
    Amen, I sometimes have to wait days for expensive purchases to go through...its quite frustrating..dont know what all the fantasy loophole talk is about. Bought a gun at rir show and had to drive to manasa four days later to pick it up once it cleared.

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    smh..... people are such stupid animals. I just had a guy tell me how glad he was that virginia had retained the "duty to retreat" wording in our laws in spite of recent expansion of gun rights. He couldn't find anything to back it up, but he was certain that's what the law said, his "ccw" instructor had told him so......

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by builtjeep View Post
    ........ that's what the law said, his "ccw" instructor had told him so......
    Love to know who that was. I'm so tired of hearing about bad info being put out there by these weekend warrior instructors.
    Last edited by ProShooter; 06-24-2013 at 07:13 PM.
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Lunch meeting today and the Waitress told me the fellow at the counter had a question. I was wearing my Glock so I wondered why he thought someone so poorly armed could answer his questions.

    Yep...what can I do for you?

    What's the waiting time to get a gun?

    There is no waiting period in Va.

    That's only at Gunshows though, right?

    There isn't any difference between buying from a dealer at a gunshow and going to his shop.

    Oh...I'm from California and come to Va for a few days a year. I want to buy one.

    Then wait till you get home and buy one.

    Why?

    Because you're not a resident.

    But I can buy one at a Gunshow can't I?

    No...there is NO loohole. You can buy it and have it shipped to an FFL in California where he'll comply with California law.

    Can I buy one from an individual?

    You can but it's a major crime and if you get caught, they'll put you in a cell with a 6.8 homosexual named Bubba!

    If I buy it from an individual at a gunshow....it's legal then isn't it?

    There is no Loophole, there is no loophole, there is no loophole. Did you catch the part where there is NO GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE.

    End of discussion.

    You Know, I think that fellow might have been a Bloomie!
    Now that's just mean. My carry gen3 G23 is going to hide somewhere never to be found.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post

    But I can buy one at a Gunshow can't I?

    No...there is NO loohole. You can buy it and have it shipped to an FFL in California where he'll comply with California law.

    Can I buy one from an individual?

    You can but it's a major crime and if you get caught, they'll put you in a cell with a 6.8 homosexual named Bubba!

    If I buy it from an individual at a gunshow....it's legal then isn't it?

    There is no Loophole, there is no loophole, there is no loophole. Did you catch the part where there is NO GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE.

    End of discussion.

    You Know, I think that fellow might have been a Bloomie!
    Loopaphobia - a special ailment of CA and NY denizens.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedevilrobyjohn View Post
    Amen, I sometimes have to wait days for expensive purchases to go through...its quite frustrating..dont know what all the fantasy loophole talk is about. Bought a gun at rir show and had to drive to manasa four days later to pick it up once it cleared.
    I haven't given this situation any thought until now, any time I've been at gunshows I've only ever dealt with local dealers because experience has shown I'll be delayed.

    However, is it possible that when a delay is likely that would leave a purchaser with an expensive journey (in terms of fuel costs and/or the time needed to complete the journey) the firearm be transferred to another dealer at the show who is more local to the purchaser for them to collect when convenient?

    For instance, RIR show a dealer from somewhere in SW VA has just what you want at a price you're willing to pay, but he tells you there's a backup on checks and the chances are it won't be approved before the end of the weekend. It would cost you $50 in gas to drive there and back to collect it next week, but you know another dealer at the show from the Metro Richmond area will do transfers for $25, and so you ask him to take possession of the firearm from the other dealer and run the check instead of the first dealer doing so. I'm right in thinking that's perfectly acceptable, aren't I?

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Lunch meeting today and the Waitress told me the fellow at the counter had a question. I was wearing my Glock so I wondered why he thought someone so poorly armed could answer his questions.
    ...snip...
    As for that guy, we should have sent Logan over to answer his questions

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    I haven't given this situation any thought until now, any time I've been at gunshows I've only ever dealt with local dealers because experience has shown I'll be delayed.

    However, is it possible that when a delay is likely that would leave a purchaser with an expensive journey (in terms of fuel costs and/or the time needed to complete the journey) the firearm be transferred to another dealer at the show who is more local to the purchaser for them to collect when convenient?

    For instance, RIR show a dealer from somewhere in SW VA has just what you want at a price you're willing to pay, but he tells you there's a backup on checks and the chances are it won't be approved before the end of the weekend. It would cost you $50 in gas to drive there and back to collect it next week, but you know another dealer at the show from the Metro Richmond area will do transfers for $25, and so you ask him to take possession of the firearm from the other dealer and run the check instead of the first dealer doing so. I'm right in thinking that's perfectly acceptable, aren't I?

    As for that guy, we should have sent Logan over to answer his questions
    Perfectly acceptable and done with some frequency.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Had a friend show me a phone recording of a instructor here in NC saying that there was a duty to retreat. I just shook my head, surely there is some sort of test before they let these guys teach. Same instructor claimed that banks are federal property, and that it was illegal to carry where alcohol is sold.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-24-2013 at 11:01 PM.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Had a friend show me a phone recording of a instructor here in NC saying that there was a duty to retreat. I just shook my head, surely there is some sort of test before they let these guys teach. Same instructor claimed that banks are federal property, and that it was illegal to carry where alcohol is sold.
    We've had instructors here that didn't even know what the requirements for the non resident permits he was giving classes for...were.

    Others too which I won't get into.

    Apparently it's a simple thing to become an expert. That's why I always recommend Pro Shooter. He doesn't make up what he doesn't know, he looks it up.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Had a friend show me a phone recording of a instructor here in NC saying that there was a duty to retreat. I just shook my head, surely there is some sort of test before they let these guys teach. Same instructor claimed that banks are federal property, and that it was illegal to carry where alcohol is sold.
    I saw where a poster talked about someone arguing this one. Have to wonder where they get this. Probably from FDIC protection at banks.

    As for "duty to retreat", I have seen this on "official" websites (I think legal or such)
    where the writer(s) state that there is a duty to retreat in Virginia. You have to wonder where they get this.

    http://crimlaw.blogspot.com/2010/02/...-virginia.html
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 06-25-2013 at 03:53 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    We've had instructors here that didn't even know what the requirements for the non resident permits he was giving classes for...were.

    Others too which I won't get into.

    Apparently it's a simple thing to become an expert. That's why I always recommend Pro Shooter. He doesn't make up what he doesn't know, he looks it up.
    When I took the class at Dance's (regular instructor was out for surgery, they had some guy who used to work at/I believe co-own The Gun Rack in Hopewell) the instructor informed the class that open carry was illegal in most cities and that you could not carry at all in the city of Richmond. He knew nothing of state preemption and after I pointed out that I routinely open carried in Richmond and surrounding areas he got angry and told me that I was free to do what I liked but that he'd guarantee that I'll find myself in handcuffs losing my gun and my permit.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by builtjeep View Post
    When I took the class at Dance's (regular instructor was out for surgery, they had some guy who used to work at/I believe co-own The Gun Rack in Hopewell) the instructor informed the class that open carry was illegal in most cities and that you could not carry at all in the city of Richmond. He knew nothing of state preemption and after I pointed out that I routinely open carried in Richmond and surrounding areas he got angry and told me that I was free to do what I liked but that he'd guarantee that I'll find myself in handcuffs losing my gun and my permit.
    That is the kind of instructor that needs to be reported to both the class sponsor/shop and to the NRA
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That is the kind of instructor that needs to be reported to both the class sponsor/shop and to the NRA
    Unless the instructor is billing himself as an NRA-Certified Instructor, why are you bothering the nice people on Waples Mill Road?

    Somebody in Virginia state government deals with CHP instructors - I'm too lazy to go look it up but would guess DCJS. If there is no oversight agency, the the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Affairs has a splendid little fraud hotline. (You take my money and fail to give me straight poop about where I can or cannot carry and that' fraud.)

    stay safe.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Unless the instructor is billing himself as an NRA-Certified Instructor, why are you bothering the nice people on Waples Mill Road?
    --snip--
    It's no bother really, no matter on which road they are.

    At any given time, 99% of the CHP instructors are NRA certified - so just and educated hip shot.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post

    Somebody in Virginia state government deals with CHP instructors - I'm too lazy to go look it up but would guess DCJS. If there is no oversight agency, the the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Affairs has a splendid little fraud hotline. (You take my money and fail to give me straight poop about where I can or cannot carry and that' fraud.)

    stay safe.
    The Code allows for either an NRA certified instructor or state certified instructor to offer a "firearms training or safety course or class".

    DCJS has oversight with DCJS certified firearms instructors who are either certified to teach DCJS LE or DCJS private security (Armed guards). Since the Code allows for a "state certified instructor" to offer a class, many of these guys are teaching CHP classes. DCJS tends to turn a blind eye to that fact.
    Last edited by ProShooter; 06-25-2013 at 06:51 AM.
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by builtjeep View Post
    When I took the class at Dance's (regular instructor was out for surgery, they had some guy who used to work at/I believe co-own The Gun Rack in Hopewell) the instructor informed the class that open carry was illegal in most cities and that you could not carry at all in the city of Richmond. He knew nothing of state preemption and after I pointed out that I routinely open carried in Richmond and surrounding areas he got angry and told me that I was free to do what I liked but that he'd guarantee that I'll find myself in handcuffs losing my gun and my permit.
    Wow... reminds me of when you are at a movie theater and the movie turns out horribly bad... you should have stood up right at that point, demanded a refund and walked out!

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Wow... reminds me of when you are at a movie theater and the movie turns out horribly bad... you should have stood up right at that point, demanded a refund and walked out!

    TFred
    I considered it, but since I was attending with my father and my wife, both of whom I had paid for and we were just taking the class to meet the requirement I just sat through the remainder (was toward the end anyways). I think I at least helped educate a few other attendees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    i haven't given this situation any thought until now, any time i've been at gunshows i've only ever dealt with local dealers because experience has shown i'll be delayed.

    However, is it possible that when a delay is likely that would leave a purchaser with an expensive journey (in terms of fuel costs and/or the time needed to complete the journey) the firearm be transferred to another dealer at the show who is more local to the purchaser for them to collect when convenient?

    For instance, rir show a dealer from somewhere in sw va has just what you want at a price you're willing to pay, but he tells you there's a backup on checks and the chances are it won't be approved before the end of the weekend. It would cost you $50 in gas to drive there and back to collect it next week, but you know another dealer at the show from the metro richmond area will do transfers for $25, and so you ask him to take possession of the firearm from the other dealer and run the check instead of the first dealer doing so. I'm right in thinking that's perfectly acceptable, aren't i?

    As for that guy, we should have sent logan over to answer his questions
    ipad is cracked and hateful.

    Good point...i use sonnys guns...he transfers for $17 and he is a good guy...he is also preferred on many sites and stores so his info is readily available on record making less work for the transfer. Me and the family make a road trip out of it and enjoy ourselves...just bought online from gander and drove to fburg to get it, was delayed....shopped all around and played then picked it up later that day. Spending large sums and waiting/working to get them into my posession...just dont see the illegal, loophole or ease of posession that people are crying over and trying to fight. Was in sc a few weeks ago...found a jewel i had only read about...right there it was but they refused to transfer it to my ffl...even for an extra $100.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-25-2013 at 02:07 PM. Reason: helped w/format

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    There is no Loophole, there is no loophole, there is no loophole. Did you catch the part where there is NO GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE.

    End of discussion.

    You Know, I think that fellow might have been a Bloomie!
    What do you expect? For twenty years, the mainstream propaganda media have been harping about the "loophole", as if no laws exist at gun shows.

    Even many gun owners believe a bunch of nonsense that isn't true.

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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    A friend startled me recently....

    By telling me her husband just bought a (surplus) handgun, from his brother, in North Carolina, while visiting. I was having a "he can't do that" moment. Now, I have no thought that he might be a prohibited person but doesn't NC require the permission of the county sheriff for handguns? He crossed state lines, visited for a few days, made the purchase, then went home, back across state lines. Now, there was no intent to avoid the law. I truly believe he was ignorant of it. It was a private sale between family members. He will never get caught nor do I believe he did anything wrong but I DO believe he probably did something illegal. Am I way off on my read on this? Oh, and go easy on those "weekend warriors", I teach on weekends! However, thanks to this forum, I stay up on the Virginia carry rules.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wolfhound View Post
    By telling me her husband just bought a (surplus) handgun, from his brother, in North Carolina, while visiting. I was having a "he can't do that" moment. Now, I have no thought that he might be a prohibited person but doesn't NC require the permission of the county sheriff for handguns? He crossed state lines, visited for a few days, made the purchase, then went home, back across state lines. Now, there was no intent to avoid the law. I truly believe he was ignorant of it. It was a private sale between family members. He will never get caught nor do I believe he did anything wrong but I DO believe he probably did something illegal. Am I way off on my read on this? Oh, and go easy on those "weekend warriors", I teach on weekends! However, thanks to this forum, I stay up on the Virginia carry rules.
    There are some proposed changes to the North Carolina handgun purchase requirements that will make the process simpler.
    http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?se...ics&id=9134985
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wolfhound View Post
    By telling me her husband just bought a (surplus) handgun, from his brother, in North Carolina, while visiting. I was having a "he can't do that" moment. Now, I have no thought that he might be a prohibited person but doesn't NC require the permission of the county sheriff for handguns? He crossed state lines, visited for a few days, made the purchase, then went home, back across state lines. Now, there was no intent to avoid the law. I truly believe he was ignorant of it. It was a private sale between family members. He will never get caught nor do I believe he did anything wrong but I DO believe he probably did something illegal. Am I way off on my read on this? Oh, and go easy on those "weekend warriors", I teach on weekends! However, thanks to this forum, I stay up on the Virginia carry rules.
    If he is from out of state, and has a C&R he can buy a handgun on the C&R list, I think. The license is a FFL and as long as it is limited to those arms he is within the law, I believe. But if he is a NC resident he still is supposed to have PPP when he purchases a C&R firearm. I believe a FFL can buy a firearm from anybody, but they can only sell to residents of their state. Plus a C&R license is not a dealer license.

    Honestly there is really no way to catch someone even if it is not kosher. Unless someone reports him. His wife and him should keep their big mouths shut.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-25-2013 at 11:13 PM.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Honestly there is really no way to catch someone even if it is not kosher. Unless someone reports him. His wife and him should keep their big mouths shut.
    Well....since we don't talk about illegal activities here (Except not wearing seatbelts)....I can't comment, but I am going to speak to Zeus who just said "Yep!"

    I was discussing this with our favorite lawyer and he surprised me. A person can be considered a resident after a few days...as far as buying a gun. He just has to live there, nothing else and he can move the next day with no problems.
    Getting the signoff in NC is another thing but for compliance with Federal law, there is no residency time period.
    Last edited by peter nap; 06-25-2013 at 11:33 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Sounds a lot like he borrowed it to me... for a long time.

    TFred

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