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Thread: OC no longer welcome at Pike Place Market

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    OC no longer welcome at Pike Place Market

    On Sunday took the wife and grandson to the Market. Not 20 minutes into the visit I was told by Security that if I wanted to stay I would need to cover up my weapon. I told him that I would wait out on the street and was informed the market encompasses several blocks, not just the building. He was very polite through the entire process and was well informed on state law. I was informed that the Market is owned by the city but is managed by a third party and due to that formality they can restrict firearms because of the PNWSA v Sequim court case. As long as one stays concealed, no one is the wiser I was told.

    In the past we have had ZERO issues at the market....I'm waiting on some info from the head of security that was requested and will post more when I get it.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Starks View Post
    ...I would wait out on the street and was informed the market encompasses several blocks, not just the building. ... I was informed that the Market is owned by the city but is managed by a third party and due to that formality they can restrict firearms because of the PNWSA v Sequim court case. ....
    Even if that latter is unfortunately correct in your state, I would double check that first part. I don't see how a public thoroughfare can be so restricted as the market itself.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    looks like I found the info I wanted, now to see how long it takes them to get me the same info......

    The Pike Place Market Preservation & Development Authority (PDA) is a not-for-profit, public corporation chartered by the City of Seattle in 1973 to manage the properties in the nine-acre Market Historic District. The PDA is required to preserve, rehabilitate and protect the Market's buildings; increase opportunities for farm and food retailing in the Market; incubate and support small and marginal businesses; and provide services for low-income people.
    PDA activities are governed by an all-volunteer, 12-member PDA Council. Council members serve as volunteers and are not compensated. Of the 12 members, four are appointed by the Mayor, four are elected by the Constituency, and four are appointed by the PDA Council. All Council members must be confirmed by the Seattle City Council and typically serve a four year term.
    The PDA Council is the policy-making and oversight body that sets the direction for the activities of the PDA. The PDA Executive Director carries out the policies of the Council and directs the staff of the PDA. The Executive Director is appointed by and reports to the PDA Council. The PDA Council's policy-making and administrative oversight role is governed by the PDA Charter, PDA Rules and Regulations, the Historical Commission Ordinance, the Agreement with the City of Seattle for operation of the Daystalls, and City ordinances and state laws pertaining to the powers, responsibilities, and requirements of Public Development Authorities. The fundamental public purpose of the PDA is reflected in the PDA Charter. Read or download the PDA Charter.

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Even if that latter is unfortunately correct in your state, I would double check that first part. I don't see how a public thoroughfare can be so restricted as the market itself.
    Yes, there could be a legal fight if the issue was pushed since I was standing on a city street.

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    Regular Member waynejr253's Avatar
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    Re: OC no longer welcome at Pike Place Market

    Its really odd that you can get stopped of OC'in and bobarino dosent

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    Last edited by waynejr253; 06-25-2013 at 02:25 AM.
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Still holding to my promise

    It's been years since I've set foot inside the city limits of Seattle. I intend to keep it that way too. The ground, air, and water, there are contaminated with something that causes people to become "Liberal Whacko's".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Starks View Post
    looks like I found the info I wanted, now to see how long it takes them to get me the same info......

    The Pike Place Market Preservation & Development Authority (PDA) is a not-for-profit, public corporation chartered by the City of Seattle...
    Looks like you win. I would file a FORMAL WRITTEN complaint about essentially being kicked out. The only thing that turns places and officials around is a paper trail.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    . The ground, air, and water, there are contaminated with something that causes people to become "Liberal Whacko's".
    There is an on-point rant somewhere here against the epithet liberal. Read Timothy Ferris' (2010). The Science of Liberty: Democracy, Reason, and the Laws of Nature. That may convince to use the more accurate and precise progressive.

    Only The Constitution Party represents the conservative American Country Class against the progressive Ruling Party of democrats, republicans and libertarians. See Angelo Codevilla's essay on the topic. We can't fix what we can't precisely say, paraphrasing Woolsey, make an effective definition of progressive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Starks View Post
    looks like I found the info I wanted, now to see how long it takes them to get me the same info......

    The Pike Place Market Preservation & Development Authority (PDA) is a not-for-profit, public corporation chartered by the City of Seattle in 1973 to manage the properties in the nine-acre Market Historic District. The PDA is required to preserve, rehabilitate and protect the Market's buildings; increase opportunities for farm and food retailing in the Market; incubate and support small and marginal businesses; and provide services for low-income people.
    PDA activities are governed by an all-volunteer, 12-member PDA Council. Council members serve as volunteers and are not compensated. Of the 12 members, four are appointed by the Mayor, four are elected by the Constituency, and four are appointed by the PDA Council. All Council members must be confirmed by the Seattle City Council and typically serve a four year term.
    The PDA Council is the policy-making and oversight body that sets the direction for the activities of the PDA. The PDA Executive Director carries out the policies of the Council and directs the staff of the PDA. The Executive Director is appointed by and reports to the PDA Council. The PDA Council's policy-making and administrative oversight role is governed by the PDA Charter, PDA Rules and Regulations, the Historical Commission Ordinance, the Agreement with the City of Seattle for operation of the Daystalls, and City ordinances and state laws pertaining to the powers, responsibilities, and requirements of Public Development Authorities. The fundamental public purpose of the PDA is reflected in the PDA Charter. Read or download the PDA Charter.
    I sounds like the City of Seattle has hired the PDA to maintain the property in no way does that convey property rights, without property rights they have no authority to kick you out. This would be just like the lawn maintenance company telling you to leave the Capitol Grounds.

    PNWSA only effects the tenant if you read PNWSA you will also notice that it says they may not make any rules or laws that affect the general public, since Pikes Place is open to the public without a fee they can not regulate firearms.

    I sure wish we could get SAF invloved because we have the same problem in Spokane with the Public Facilities District and the Arena. I would imagine that this is on going all across the state and would be a great thing to get to court and get a decision.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    You get stopped and no one ever glances at me?

    I was up there on Sunday also. No problems I even flirted with a couple of gals. Said hello to some of the venders I converse with and made my purchase and left without problem.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynejr253 View Post
    Its really odd that you can get stopped of OC'in and bobarino dosent

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    It might have had to do with the day I attended. Sunday is a very busy day at the market whereas Bob was there on a weekday.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Starks View Post
    It might have had to do with the day I attended. Sunday is a very busy day at the market whereas Bob was there on a weekday.
    I must be on ignore list.

    I was there the same say you were Bill Stark. I had ZERO problems. Maybe they are used to seeing me out there and know that I am not a threat though. Maybe you seem like a threat or something.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I must be on ignore list.

    I was there the same say you were Bill Stark. I had ZERO problems. Maybe they are used to seeing me out there and know that I am not a threat though. Maybe you seem like a threat or something.
    I was pushing a stroller.... yup big threat....

  14. #14
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Starks View Post
    I was pushing a stroller.... yup big threat....
    Meet you up there next Sunday then?

    I don't know why they would harass you over it. You've never seemed threatening in person.
    I OC with a drop leg holster even.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    I actually agree with Jeff Hayes for once, this seems ... not right to me... The Sequiem case dealt entirely with a private contact between a city and a shooting sports organization over a gun show, which would only be open to people authorized by the leasing party.

    The Pike Place is public property. not only that, but the pike place is also positioned where it has several city maintained (albiet not that well maintained) streets and foot paths to allow access to the waterfront and to residential units and businesses not in the market itself. I think they're fully covered by preemption.

    of course, you'd need someone willing to either pester the PDA until they agree to change, or willing to take this to court. or go over the PDA's head and report them to the city of seattle but good luck finding sympathy there.

    The Pike Place is not a private "for profit" mall, it's a public market, owned by the public,
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    It's been years since I've set foot inside the city limits of Seattle. I intend to keep it that way too. The ground, air, and water, there are contaminated with something that causes people to become "Liberal Whacko's".
    They are drinking STARBUCKS....lol Which is funny since Starbucks is OC friendly...

  17. #17
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Starks View Post
    looks like I found the info I wanted, now to see how long it takes them to get me the same info......

    The Pike Place Market Preservation & Development Authority (PDA) is a not-for-profit, public corporation chartered by the City of Seattle in 1973 to manage the properties in the nine-acre Market Historic District. The PDA is required to preserve, rehabilitate and protect the Market's buildings; increase opportunities for farm and food retailing in the Market; incubate and support small and marginal businesses; and provide services for low-income people.
    PDA activities are governed by an all-volunteer, 12-member PDA Council. Council members serve as volunteers and are not compensated. Of the 12 members, four are appointed by the Mayor, four are elected by the Constituency, and four are appointed by the PDA Council. All Council members must be confirmed by the Seattle City Council and typically serve a four year term.
    The PDA Council is the policy-making and oversight body that sets the direction for the activities of the PDA. The PDA Executive Director carries out the policies of the Council and directs the staff of the PDA. The Executive Director is appointed by and reports to the PDA Council. The PDA Council's policy-making and administrative oversight role is governed by the PDA Charter, PDA Rules and Regulations, the Historical Commission Ordinance, the Agreement with the City of Seattle for operation of the Daystalls, and City ordinances and state laws pertaining to the powers, responsibilities, and requirements of Public Development Authorities. The fundamental public purpose of the PDA is reflected in the PDA Charter. Read or download the PDA Charter.
    I don't think the Sequim ruling will fit here, and definately not on the public streets. Have you contacted the SAF?

  18. #18
    Regular Member GreatWhiteLlama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Starks View Post
    I was pushing a stroller.... yup big threat....
    Was it a Tactical Assault Stroller?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteLlama View Post
    Was it a Tactical Assault Stroller? everydaynodaysoff.com
    Thanks, more interesting images on the website.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  20. #20
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Now now now, long gun OC is frowned upon here

    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  21. #21
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Starks View Post
    On Sunday took the wife and grandson to the Market. Not 20 minutes into the visit I was told by Security...
    Security? You mean a Mall Cop? I suppose they could tell you to get out of the market, but perhaps you can find out if they can trespass you on a public street.

    ...they can restrict firearms because of the PNWSA v Sequim court case. As long as one stays concealed, no one is the wiser I was told.
    "As long as one stays concealed no one is the wiser", nudge, nudge, wink, wink, tells ME that they were advising you to break the law (PNWSA v Sequim) under color of (their) authority. That's BS. Did you get them saying that on your recorder?

    ...I'm waiting on some info from the head of security that was requested and will post more when I get it.
    Good to hear. Good luck.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 06-25-2013 at 01:13 PM.

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    Sounds like an impromptu, unorganized, leaderless, sterile-carry tour of the market by many people who don't know each other is in order.
    Last edited by deanf; 06-25-2013 at 02:48 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    They are drinking STARBUCKS....lol Which is funny since Starbucks is OC friendly...
    Starbucks is not "OC friendly." They are completely neutral on the issue. Which is how it should be, of course, and what you meant; I don't mean this as a correction, just a clarification. We often call them "friendly" if they are unopposed, but Starbucks has gone on record saying they do not support either position. They simply allow it when legal and want to be left out of the debate.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member waynejr253's Avatar
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    Re: OC no longer welcome at Pike Place Market

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteLlama View Post
    Was it a Tactical Assault Stroller?

    Its funny, I've never met u bill but I can see you pushing that along the streets of seattle or any street in this state.

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    Well, Bill was an Army Tanker / gunner. I hope he drove the stroller a bit differently.

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