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OC no longer welcome at Pike Place Market

Bill Starks

Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,304
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
On Sunday took the wife and grandson to the Market. Not 20 minutes into the visit I was told by Security that if I wanted to stay I would need to cover up my weapon. I told him that I would wait out on the street and was informed the market encompasses several blocks, not just the building. He was very polite through the entire process and was well informed on state law. I was informed that the Market is owned by the city but is managed by a third party and due to that formality they can restrict firearms because of the PNWSA v Sequim court case. As long as one stays concealed, no one is the wiser I was told.

In the past we have had ZERO issues at the market....I'm waiting on some info from the head of security that was requested and will post more when I get it.
 
MAC702

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Bill Starks said:
...I would wait out on the street and was informed the market encompasses several blocks, not just the building. ... I was informed that the Market is owned by the city but is managed by a third party and due to that formality they can restrict firearms because of the PNWSA v Sequim court case. ....
Click to expand...

Even if that latter is unfortunately correct in your state, I would double check that first part. I don't see how a public thoroughfare can be so restricted as the market itself.
 
Bill Starks

Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,304
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
looks like I found the info I wanted, now to see how long it takes them to get me the same info......

The Pike Place Market Preservation & Development Authority (PDA) is a not-for-profit, public corporation chartered by the City of Seattle in 1973 to manage the properties in the nine-acre Market Historic District. The PDA is required to preserve, rehabilitate and protect the Market's buildings; increase opportunities for farm and food retailing in the Market; incubate and support small and marginal businesses; and provide services for low-income people.
PDA activities are governed by an all-volunteer, 12-member PDA Council. Council members serve as volunteers and are not compensated. Of the 12 members, four are appointed by the Mayor, four are elected by the Constituency, and four are appointed by the PDA Council. All Council members must be confirmed by the Seattle City Council and typically serve a four year term.
The PDA Council is the policy-making and oversight body that sets the direction for the activities of the PDA. The PDA Executive Director carries out the policies of the Council and directs the staff of the PDA. The Executive Director is appointed by and reports to the PDA Council. The PDA Council's policy-making and administrative oversight role is governed by the PDA Charter, PDA Rules and Regulations, the Historical Commission Ordinance, the Agreement with the City of Seattle for operation of the Daystalls, and City ordinances and state laws pertaining to the powers, responsibilities, and requirements of Public Development Authorities. The fundamental public purpose of the PDA is reflected in the PDA Charter. Read or download the PDA Charter.
 
Bill Starks

Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,304
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
MAC702 said:
Even if that latter is unfortunately correct in your state, I would double check that first part. I don't see how a public thoroughfare can be so restricted as the market itself.
Click to expand...

Yes, there could be a legal fight if the issue was pushed since I was standing on a city street.
 
W

waynejr253

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
20
Location
puyallup, wa
Its really odd that you can get stopped of OC'in and bobarino dosent :confused:

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk 2
 
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amlevin

amlevin

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Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Still holding to my promise

It's been years since I've set foot inside the city limits of Seattle. I intend to keep it that way too. The ground, air, and water, there are contaminated with something that causes people to become "Liberal Whacko's".
 
MAC702

MAC702

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Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Bill Starks said:
looks like I found the info I wanted, now to see how long it takes them to get me the same info......

The Pike Place Market Preservation & Development Authority (PDA) is a not-for-profit, public corporation chartered by the City of Seattle...
Click to expand...

Looks like you win. I would file a FORMAL WRITTEN complaint about essentially being kicked out. The only thing that turns places and officials around is a paper trail.
 
J

Jeff Hayes

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Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
2,569
Location
Long gone
Bill Starks said:
looks like I found the info I wanted, now to see how long it takes them to get me the same info......

The Pike Place Market Preservation & Development Authority (PDA) is a not-for-profit, public corporation chartered by the City of Seattle in 1973 to manage the properties in the nine-acre Market Historic District. The PDA is required to preserve, rehabilitate and protect the Market's buildings; increase opportunities for farm and food retailing in the Market; incubate and support small and marginal businesses; and provide services for low-income people.
PDA activities are governed by an all-volunteer, 12-member PDA Council. Council members serve as volunteers and are not compensated. Of the 12 members, four are appointed by the Mayor, four are elected by the Constituency, and four are appointed by the PDA Council. All Council members must be confirmed by the Seattle City Council and typically serve a four year term.
The PDA Council is the policy-making and oversight body that sets the direction for the activities of the PDA. The PDA Executive Director carries out the policies of the Council and directs the staff of the PDA. The Executive Director is appointed by and reports to the PDA Council. The PDA Council's policy-making and administrative oversight role is governed by the PDA Charter, PDA Rules and Regulations, the Historical Commission Ordinance, the Agreement with the City of Seattle for operation of the Daystalls, and City ordinances and state laws pertaining to the powers, responsibilities, and requirements of Public Development Authorities. The fundamental public purpose of the PDA is reflected in the PDA Charter. Read or download the PDA Charter.
Click to expand...

I sounds like the City of Seattle has hired the PDA to maintain the property in no way does that convey property rights, without property rights they have no authority to kick you out. This would be just like the lawn maintenance company telling you to leave the Capitol Grounds.

PNWSA only effects the tenant if you read PNWSA you will also notice that it says they may not make any rules or laws that affect the general public, since Pikes Place is open to the public without a fee they can not regulate firearms.

I sure wish we could get SAF invloved because we have the same problem in Spokane with the Public Facilities District and the Arena. I would imagine that this is on going all across the state and would be a great thing to get to court and get a decision.
 
Freedom1Man

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
You get stopped and no one ever glances at me?

I was up there on Sunday also. No problems I even flirted with a couple of gals. Said hello to some of the venders I converse with and made my purchase and left without problem.
 
Freedom1Man

Freedom1Man

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Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Bill Starks said:
It might have had to do with the day I attended. Sunday is a very busy day at the market whereas Bob was there on a weekday.
Click to expand...

I must be on ignore list.

I was there the same say you were Bill Stark. I had ZERO problems. Maybe they are used to seeing me out there and know that I am not a threat though. Maybe you seem like a threat or something.
 
EMNofSeattle

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
I actually agree with Jeff Hayes for once, this seems ... not right to me... The Sequiem case dealt entirely with a private contact between a city and a shooting sports organization over a gun show, which would only be open to people authorized by the leasing party.

The Pike Place is public property. not only that, but the pike place is also positioned where it has several city maintained (albiet not that well maintained) streets and foot paths to allow access to the waterfront and to residential units and businesses not in the market itself. I think they're fully covered by preemption.

of course, you'd need someone willing to either pester the PDA until they agree to change, or willing to take this to court. or go over the PDA's head and report them to the city of seattle but good luck finding sympathy there.

The Pike Place is not a private "for profit" mall, it's a public market, owned by the public,
 
DocWalker

DocWalker

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Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
amlevin said:
It's been years since I've set foot inside the city limits of Seattle. I intend to keep it that way too. The ground, air, and water, there are contaminated with something that causes people to become "Liberal Whacko's".
Click to expand...

They are drinking STARBUCKS....lol Which is funny since Starbucks is OC friendly...
 
hermannr

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
Bill Starks said:
looks like I found the info I wanted, now to see how long it takes them to get me the same info......

The Pike Place Market Preservation & Development Authority (PDA) is a not-for-profit, public corporation chartered by the City of Seattle in 1973 to manage the properties in the nine-acre Market Historic District. The PDA is required to preserve, rehabilitate and protect the Market's buildings; increase opportunities for farm and food retailing in the Market; incubate and support small and marginal businesses; and provide services for low-income people.
PDA activities are governed by an all-volunteer, 12-member PDA Council. Council members serve as volunteers and are not compensated. Of the 12 members, four are appointed by the Mayor, four are elected by the Constituency, and four are appointed by the PDA Council. All Council members must be confirmed by the Seattle City Council and typically serve a four year term.
The PDA Council is the policy-making and oversight body that sets the direction for the activities of the PDA. The PDA Executive Director carries out the policies of the Council and directs the staff of the PDA. The Executive Director is appointed by and reports to the PDA Council. The PDA Council's policy-making and administrative oversight role is governed by the PDA Charter, PDA Rules and Regulations, the Historical Commission Ordinance, the Agreement with the City of Seattle for operation of the Daystalls, and City ordinances and state laws pertaining to the powers, responsibilities, and requirements of Public Development Authorities. The fundamental public purpose of the PDA is reflected in the PDA Charter. Read or download the PDA Charter.
Click to expand...

I don't think the Sequim ruling will fit here, and definately not on the public streets. Have you contacted the SAF?
 
GreatWhiteLlama

GreatWhiteLlama

Regular Member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
287
Location
Bothell, Washington, USA
Bill Starks said:
I was pushing a stroller.... yup big threat....
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Was it a Tactical Assault Stroller? :)

Tactical-Baby-Stroller-Rifle-5.jpg
 
Maverick9

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
Bill Starks said:
On Sunday took the wife and grandson to the Market. Not 20 minutes into the visit I was told by Security...
Click to expand...

Security? You mean a Mall Cop? I suppose they could tell you to get out of the market, but perhaps you can find out if they can trespass you on a public street.

...they can restrict firearms because of the PNWSA v Sequim court case. As long as one stays concealed, no one is the wiser I was told.
Click to expand...

"As long as one stays concealed no one is the wiser", nudge, nudge, wink, wink, tells ME that they were advising you to break the law (PNWSA v Sequim) under color of (their) authority. That's BS. Did you get them saying that on your recorder?

...I'm waiting on some info from the head of security that was requested and will post more when I get it.
Click to expand...

Good to hear. Good luck.
 
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D

deanf

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
1,789
Location
N47º 12’ x W122º 10’
Sounds like an impromptu, unorganized, leaderless, sterile-carry tour of the market by many people who don't know each other is in order.
 
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