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Thread: judge files injunction to block HB2 open carry law

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    Angry judge files injunction to block HB2 open carry law

    Judge blocks Mississippi open-carry gun law

    Posted:Friday, June 28, 2013 7:35 PM ESTUpdated:Friday, June 28, 2013 8:03 PM EST

    NEWS

    **(WMC-TV) - A state judge has blocked a Mississippi open-carry gun law from taking effect Monday, according to the Associated Press.Circuit Judge Winston Kidd ruled that the law is vague and an injunction is needed to stop irreparable harm.Hinds County District Attorney Robert Shuler Smith requested the injunction, and Kidd granted it during an emergency hearing late Friday.The Associated Press reports House Bill 2 clarifies that people don't need any kind of state-issued permit to carry a gun that's not concealed.***********The bill's main sponsor, Republican Rep. Andy Gipson, of Braxton, says the law simply restates the state constitution's right to bear arms. But, some sheriffs and police chiefs worry people could become trigger-happy and hurt civilians or law-enforcement officers.Stay with WMCTV.COM for updates on this developing story.Copyright 2013 WMC-TV. All rights reserved. The Associated Press contributed to this report



    Discuss.....

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Wait, on what legal grounds? That the state constitution doesn't allow the legislature to enact laws? What a crock
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    guberment dont like citizens to have guns ... go figure .. they're fascists

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    Regular Member MSRebel54's Avatar
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    Well, so much for July 1st. Doesn't quite seem right that a single judge can knock down months and years of work by the snap of his finger. Like Rep. Gipson said, I never thought I'd see the day that someone said the Constitution is unconstitutional.

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    Hb2

    This is how i understand the situation.

    1. Mississippi is allegedly an open carry state
    2. Some jurisdictions claim that if any part of the gun is covered then the gun is concealed. They contend that a holstered gun in an exposed holster on your belt is actually concealed.
    3. They use the above to arrest/harass open carriers.
    4. HB2 was intended to clarify that a holstered gun in an exposed holster on your belt is not actually concealed.
    5. Some anti gun/anti open carry Mississippi Law Enforcement and Judges feel that HB2 threatens their authority.

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    MS has a cronic judicial problem; they think the constitution is unconstitutional as it doesn't back up what they think the law should be. Talk about an activist judge, a that clarifies the law and takes away restrictions is too vauge...
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    judge files injunction to block HB2 open carry law

    I'm pulling for you guys from Nevada!

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    Im so mad I could spit!!! We were finally headed in the right direction and a small handful of "suit wearing idiots" get an injunction!! Are you kidding me!!
    And then when interviewed on TV they have the stupidness ( only word I could come up with ) to say it would be "dangerous" and they feel the constitution does not give us the right to carry ( bare arms )!!!
    Forget it! I'm too mad to keep talking about it right now................sorry.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    This is lawfare

    Well you didn't think that the only ones would actually accept the law, did you?

    Now comes the months and months of delay, then preliminary hearings, etc., etc., etc. i bet Twelve months before there is any meaningful hearing.

    This is modern lawfare.

    Live free or die,
    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Does ANYONE have a copy of the written order?! I'm asking Florida Carry's lawyers to get in to this to help out our neighbors to the west, unless we have a capable sister organization in MS that I am unaware of.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    Does ANYONE have a copy of the written order?! I'm asking Florida Carry's lawyers to get in to this to help out our neighbors to the west, unless we have a capable sister organization in MS that I am unaware of.

    Sean, you can can see why I'm telling you Norman vs Fl is completely a waste of time.

    I agree with Fl carry helping MS in this instance, I'm sending another tiny donation your way. The only way we'll get OC in Fl is legislatively, and OC becoming the norm in other states is how we'll do it.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Sean, you can can see why I'm telling you Norman vs Fl is completely a waste of time.

    I agree with Fl carry helping MS in this instance, I'm sending another tiny donation your way. The only way we'll get OC in Fl is legislatively, and OC becoming the norm in other states is how we'll do it.
    I would never categorize the criminal defense of Dale Norman as a waste of time. Win or loose, lawyers will citing that case for the answers to its certified questions long after we're both dead and gone.

    CERTIFICATION OF ISSUES OF GREAT PUBUC IMPORTANCEThe court was unable to find any Florida cases which directly ruled on the following issues,
    which affect the millions of Floridians who own firearms and wish to possess and use them in a manner
    that comports with Florida law and the United States Constitution, and which affect the thousands of
    law enforcement officers who are charged with enforcing Florida's laws relating to firearms. The court
    thus certifies as issues of great public importance:


    1. Is Florida's statutory scheme related to the open carry of firearms constitutional?


    2. Do the exceptions to the prohibition against open carry constitute affirmative defenses to a
    prosecution for a charge of open carry or does the State need to prove beyond a reasonable
    doubt that a particular defendant is not conducting him/herself in the manner allowed?


    3. Does the recent "brief and open display" exception unconstitutionally infect the Open Carry
    Law by its vagueness?

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    Talked to my attorney

    I just talked to my attorney in Mississippi, and he confirmed that open carry is allowed as per the law. He contacted Attorney General Hood and received confirmation that the stay is not valid state wide. I trust his legal opinion and have no doubt that this issue will be dealt with on July 8, and it will come out in OUR favor. I can not believe that a county judge can over-rule the state legislature, I thought for sure that the state supreme court would have the sole authority do do this.

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    [QUOTE=Double_J;1955441]I just talked to my attorney in Mississippi, and he confirmed that open carry is allowed as per the law. He contacted Attorney General Hood and received confirmation that the stay is not valid state wide. QUOTE]

    What does this mean exactly? It is not statewide?

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    Does ANYONE have a copy of the written order?! I'm asking Florida Carry's lawyers to get in to this to help out our neighbors to the west, unless we have a capable sister organization in MS that I am unaware of.
    I've looked but I have not been able to find a link to the ruling anywhere on the internet.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    i posted up in the other thread but i asked four cops at a gas station in southaven a few weeks ago. the short story is that they said the only reason to OC is to "intimidte"
    and that MS was working on undoing HB2, they didnt know what they had passed.

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    Verbal Order - Found the transcript

    Link: http://randywallace.files.wordpress....ning-order.pdf

    Page 1

    THE COURT: The court has reviewed this
    matter, and again, before the court is a motion
    for a Temporary Restraining Order and
    Injunctive Relief. After hearing on this
    matter, and after view of this matter, the
    court finds that Rule 65 is the rule that the
    court must look at in deciding whether or not a
    temporary restraining order is appropriate.
    And before the court issues a temporary
    restraining order, the court must consider
    concern factors: Whether or not there is a
    substantial likelihood that the plaintiffs will
    prevail on the merits. Next, the court must
    consider whether the injunction is necessary to
    prevent irreparable harm. The court must also
    consider the threatened harm, whether the
    threatened harm outweighs the harm the
    injunction might do to the respondent, which is
    the State of Mississippi. And the court must
    also decide or consider whether the entry of an
    injunction is consistent with the public
    interest.
    Three of the prongs the court would find
    that are quite obvious is the prong that the

    Page 2

    court considered or heard most of the arguments
    from the State on was the first prong with
    whether or not there's a substantial likelihood
    that the plaintiffs would prevail on the
    merits. The court finds that the law that
    we're speaking about today that is scheduled to
    take effect on July 1st, which is a Monday, the
    court finds that the law as it stands is indeed
    vague, it is not clear, it is ambiguous, and
    that the court finds that the injunction is
    indeed necessary to prevent irreparable harm.
    The court finds that the threatened harm
    does indeed -- the court finds that the
    threatened harm that might be caused to the
    State of Mississippi is not outweighed by the
    harm that might go to the general public or to
    the applicants.
    The entry of the judgment for a TRO in
    this matter obviously is consistent with the
    public interest. The plaintiffs filed this
    motion to prevent harm to the public as a
    whole, to prevent harm from law enforcement
    officers, to prevent chaos and confusion with
    respect to who can carry a weapon and how that
    weapon can be carried. And, obviously, the

    page 3

    injury of a temporary restraining order would
    be consistent with the public interest.
    Herein, the court will grant the
    plaintiff's motion for a temporary retraining
    order, and in accordance with the law that
    temporary restraining order will remain in
    effect until the court can hold a hearing on
    the merits of this matter, and at that time the
    court will consider a preliminary injunction.
    This matter will be set for hearing on July 8th
    at 1:00. The temporary restraining order shall
    remain in effect until that time.
    Bond in this matter, which is a
    requirement of Rule 65 shall be entered or
    granted -- should be entered by the plaintiffs.
    And in determining how much bond shall be
    granted, the court must look at the facts of
    this situation. And, again, the defendant in
    this matter is the State of Mississippi.
    Mr. Pizzetta has stated that attorney's fees
    shall be considered. If the court has wrongly
    granted a temporary retraining order, then
    plaintiffs shall be responsible for attorney's
    fees. The court finds that bond is appropriate
    in this matter as a surety. And in light of

    page 4

    all of the facts and circumstances in this
    matter, the court will require bond to be
    posted in the amount of $1,000. Motion for
    temporary restraining order is granted. The
    matter is set for preliminary injunction on
    July 8th at 1:00. The parties will have until
    next Wednesday to file briefs in this matter.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    State of Mississippi Appeal

    Link: http://randywallace.files.wordpress....7/petition.pdf

    This link provides all of the documents, but for some reason you have to copy and paste it to get it to work.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    This is an attempt (one that might not even be needed) to keep people from attending public Independence day celebrations while visibly armed. Or at least provide a cover for the rear of any police/departments (coughJacksonPDcough) who want to harass, arrest, question etc. citizens who will attend anyway showing the most patriotic of pride.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    This is an attempt (one that might not even be needed) to keep people from attending public Independence day celebrations while visibly armed. Or at least provide a cover for the rear of any police/departments (coughJacksonPDcough) who want to harass, arrest, question etc. citizens who will attend anyway showing the most patriotic of pride.
    this is how they do things in russia and china....vote this judge out !

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Constable says lawsuit was filed without his consent in gun law fight

    http://yallpolitics.com/index.php/yp/post/35399/

    "Representative Andy Gipson sent me a text yesterday at 1:00 stating there would would be a press conference about HB2 at 1:30. I decided to attend and show my support for the legislation. After the news conference WAPT's Erin Kelly asked me about my position on the issue. I told her I supported HB2. She asked if I were a party to the suit and I told her no but other Constables were. She said my name was on it. I discovered to my surprise indeed it was.

    I angrily called attorney Lisa Ross' office and asked for her to call me (she is the Attorney who filed and signed the case). A few minutes later she called and told me she had my name removed and it was a mistake. I told her "Great, but the damage has been done." along with a few other choice words. I asked her why she did this and she said my name was on a list. I asked her "what attorney takes on a client without his written permission." She again said it was her mistake and she removed from the case. I consider this lawyering at its worst. I promptly went the Mississippi Bar Association and picked up 3 complaint forms for each attorney involved."

  22. #22
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    Constable says lawsuit was filed without his consent in gun law fight

    http://yallpolitics.com/index.php/yp/post/35399/

    "Representative Andy Gipson sent me a text yesterday at 1:00 stating there would would be a press conference about HB2 at 1:30. I decided to attend and show my support for the legislation. After the news conference WAPT's Erin Kelly asked me about my position on the issue. I told her I supported HB2. She asked if I were a party to the suit and I told her no but other Constables were. She said my name was on it. I discovered to my surprise indeed it was.

    I angrily called attorney Lisa Ross' office and asked for her to call me (she is the Attorney who filed and signed the case). A few minutes later she called and told me she had my name removed and it was a mistake. I told her "Great, but the damage has been done." along with a few other choice words. I asked her why she did this and she said my name was on a list. I asked her "what attorney takes on a client without his written permission." She again said it was her mistake and she removed from the case. I consider this lawyering at its worst. I promptly went the Mississippi Bar Association and picked up 3 complaint forms for each attorney involved."

    http://www.nraila.org/legislation/st...tive-date.aspx

    Link to Attorney General's response within the NRA update. Sounds like he's not happy.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    This judge has confused the issue even more!

    Now many people in the state think that you can open carry anywhere except Hinds county. This is causing even more confusion. From an article I just read, several county Law Enforcement Agencies think the same so they are posting signs on city property banning firearms in those locations only. This is a mess.

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    MS Supreme Court denies appeal

    And now the Mississippi Supreme Court has denied the AG's appeal:

    Here is the Supremes denial

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    Confusion still here!

    I said it before and I will say it again---this is one confused mess made worse by some last minute efforts by whining politicians to prevent OC. Ironic ain't it that this whole "concealed" mess came about due to the white governing class not wanting blacks to be able to OC per the Constitution of 1890! Now, black politicians are gnashing their teeth in an attempt to prevent ALL races the right to OC.

    Meetings of LEOs have occurred to get them informed about HB2, but general public information is sorely lacking.

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